L48 - Bucket boom loss of power

rbargeron

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L5450, L48, L3250, L345 never enough attachments
Jul 6, 2015
1,147
219
63
western ma
Thats helpful but a bit ambiguous. In the case of the backhoe dont both A ports go to back hoe valve?

Dan
Yes, but the swing cylinders are powered by one pump and the boom functions by the other.
 

TheAVguy

New member

Equipment
L48
Jun 4, 2023
11
3
3
CT
Some of the L48s have a self-leveling valve for the front bucket - that has load-sensing and can be set for either open or closed-center operation. Does this machine have it? On my L48 it had been removed and the linkage from the bucket disconnected - WSM has no guidance on testing its operation but says it can affect proper loader operation. If it does they just recommend replacing it - mine has operated ok without it, but of course doesn't self-level.
I saw this too, however mine does not have the valve operated self level. It just has the mechanical linkage from the bucket to the control lever. Basically it's just a rod that pushes the control lever to the right to curl the bucket down.
 

fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
6,539
4,138
113
Eastham, Ma
So boom and FEL are on the same pump. Any other BH function on that boom/FEL circuit or is everything else on the other pump.

Dan
Apparently, boom, BH control circuit, and FEL are all on pump #1.
Pump #3 has BH swing control.
 

TheAVguy

New member

Equipment
L48
Jun 4, 2023
11
3
3
CT
I’m looking for a pressure gauge to buy, anyone have a link of one they’d recommend?
 

rbargeron

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L5450, L48, L3250, L345 never enough attachments
Jul 6, 2015
1,147
219
63
western ma
Machine has 3 pumps (not counting those inside the HST). The one on the side of the engine powers just the bh swing cylinders and an extra port with diverter valve (great for a grapple). The front-most pump is for the steering. The main pump behind the steering pump handles everything else - loader, hydraulic block, 3-point, backhoe boom-dipper-bucket & stabilizers.
 

BAP

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
2012 Kubota 2920, 60MMM, FEL, BH65 48" Bush Hog, 60"Backblade, B2782B Snowblower
Dec 31, 2012
2,525
664
113
New Hampshire
I’m looking for a pressure gauge to buy, anyone have a link of one they’d recommend?
Pressure testing is not going to do you any good UNTIL you are certain that the pump is getting enough oil. Make sure your suction filter is clean and all connections to the pump and hoses are tight, no cracks and no collapses in the hose or pipes.
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
6,889
3,327
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Pressure testing is not going to do you any good UNTIL you are certain that the pump is getting enough oil. Make sure your suction filter is clean and all connections to the pump and hoses are tight, no cracks and no collapses in the hose or pipes.
A pressure test tells you a lot and its fast. One simple and definitive pressure test can rule out all of the suction line problems and more.

Dan
 
Last edited:

TheAVguy

New member

Equipment
L48
Jun 4, 2023
11
3
3
CT
I ordered the gauge, I’ll have to figure out which adapter I need to hook into the outputs.
Regarding the suction filter. I wanted to confirm this is the one we are all talking about.
Ignore the wet bottom…
124295BB-A64B-4C25-B392-5351B90A4F67.jpeg
 

BAP

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
2012 Kubota 2920, 60MMM, FEL, BH65 48" Bush Hog, 60"Backblade, B2782B Snowblower
Dec 31, 2012
2,525
664
113
New Hampshire
A pressure test tells you a lot and its fast. One simple and definitive pressure test can rule out all of the suction line problems and more.

Dan
Pressure test isn’t going to tell you the difference between suction line problems, plugged filters, bad pump and so on. All the pressure test is going to tell you is that you do or don’t have pressure. You are further ahead by ruling out the more basic reasons that can cause the problem that don’t need any special tools to do so. You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be in order to rule out some of the more basic reasons that can cause hydraulic problems.
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
6,889
3,327
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Pressure test isn’t going to tell you the difference between suction line problems, plugged filters, bad pump and so on. You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be in order to rule out some of the more basic reasons that can cause hydraulic problems.
Lets duspense with the special tools idea. A hydraulic pressure gauge is no more expensive or special than a multimeter. If you own a tractor, especislly one with a back hoe on it, and expect to diagnose and service the hydraulics its an essential and very affordable tool. I have had several in my toolbox for decades and they have uses outside of tractors.

Moving on to priblem dolving a good pressure test result at the hydraulic outlet rules out all of those potential suction side problems in one fell swoop.. Likewise a bad one positively confirms there is a supply side problem but does not tell you what. Thats just orderly diagnostic process 101.

A hydraulic pressure test is no different than using a voltmeter or ammeter to probe a defective electrical circuit looking for loss of voltage or current. It gives you both quantitative and qualitative results.

I certainly have no objection to your proposed visual inspection looking for obvious problems. Thats perfectly reasonable. Blindly taking things apart on a hope you might find a problem not so much.

What are you going to do if all that suction side inspection comes up empty? Maybe then you would think a pressure test is in order because you still can't rule out the pump or the relief valve and still dont know if the problem is there or in something upstream?

Problem isolation does not complicate things it simplifies them. Its fast, easy and definitive and helps narrow down the things and places to look at. Its how I have diagnosed everything from cars and trucks in my personal life to computer software, hardware, and network failures in my professional life. Its a logical orderly diagnostic approach that has served me well and helped me earn a very comfortable living.

Dan
 
Last edited:

Smokeydog

Well-known member

Equipment
M59, B26 grapples, backhoes, tillers, graders, diesel atv
Jun 2, 2020
572
526
93
knoxville, Tennessee
Confused.
Looks like the L48 has two suction side filters, dual filter housing. These get changed? These filters are often referred to as screens for their high micron rating.

There is also HST polishing filter.

On the suction side there are a number of external large metal tubing joined together with pieces of rubber hose and O-ring connections. All subjected to possible damage underneath. Air being sucked in can cause hydraulic many problems. Excessive foaming of hydraulic fluids particularly at operating temperature a symptom. The B26 has a rubber elbow on the suction side line prone to cracks.

Pressure testing a valuable tool. Have a permanent gauge plumbed in to monitor FEL pressures. Fun to watch how the Kubota soft ride system absorbs shock loads.
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
6,889
3,327
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Confused.
Looks like the L48 has two suction side filters, dual filter housing. These get changed? These filters are often referred to as screens for their high micron rating.

There is also HST polishing filter.

On the suction side there are a number of external large metal tubing joined together with pieces of rubber hose and O-ring connections. All subjected to possible damage underneath. Air being sucked in can cause hydraulic many problems. Excessive foaming of hydraulic fluids particularly at operating temperature a symptom. The B26 has a rubber elbow on the suction side line prone to cracks.

Pressure testing a valuable tool. Have a permanent gauge plumbed in to monitor FEL pressures. Fun to watch how the Kubota soft ride system absorbs shock loads.
The suction side plumbing is shared by three pumps and only one is exhibiting problems. That should make one suspicious - it certainly informs my thinking. So if it comes to it how does one go about isolating and testing the pump itself?

  1. Connect test rig directly to pump outlet pipe and as close to pump as possible. There shoud be no relief valves or flow dividers between pump and test rig.
  2. Fully open needle valve and put end of reservoir hose in reservoir filler opening.
  3. Start tractor, set engine to 1500 - 2000 RPM, and observe flow.
  4. If flow is solid slowly begin to close needle valve and observe pressure.
  5. Pressure should rise to 2000 PSI with valve only partially closed.
If you can't get steady flow and/or the pressure up to 2000 PSI with the valve partially open the pump is defective.

Dan

HydraulicPumpTestRig.png
 
Last edited:

TheAVguy

New member

Equipment
L48
Jun 4, 2023
11
3
3
CT
Confused.
Looks like the L48 has two suction side filters, dual filter housing. These get changed? These filters are often referred to as screens for their high micron rating.

There is also HST polishing filter.

On the suction side there are a number of external large metal tubing joined together with pieces of rubber hose and O-ring connections. All subjected to possible damage underneath. Air being sucked in can cause hydraulic many problems. Excessive foaming of hydraulic fluids particularly at operating temperature a symptom. The B26 has a rubber elbow on the suction side line prone to cracks.

Pressure testing a valuable tool. Have a permanent gauge plumbed in to monitor FEL pressures. Fun to watch how the Kubota soft ride system absorbs shock loads.
Yes both of these suction side filters were replaced. I probably have to remove the seat and the floor to really get access to the top of those lines as see if they are cracked.
 

TheAVguy

New member

Equipment
L48
Jun 4, 2023
11
3
3
CT
The suction side plumbing is shared by three pumps and only one is exhibiting problems. That should make one suspicious - it certainly informs my thinking. So if it comes to it how does one go about isolating and testing the pump itself?

  1. Connect test rig directly to pump outlet pipe and as close to pump as possible. There shoud be no relief valves or flow dividers between pump and test rig.
  2. Fully open needle valve and put end of reservoir hose in reservoir filler opening.
  3. Start tractor, set engine to 1500 - 2000 RPM, and observe flow.
  4. If flow is solid slowly begin to close needle valve and observe pressure.
  5. Pressure should rise to 2000 PSI with valve only partially closed.
If you can't get steady flow and/or the pressure up to 2000 PSI with the valve partially open the pump is defective.

Dan

View attachment 104457
Ok, I’ll order needle valve, some hose and the T.
 

fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
6,539
4,138
113
Eastham, Ma
Yes both of these suction side filters were replaced. I probably have to remove the seat and the floor to really get access to the top of those lines as see if they are cracked.
Look for puddles, or drips of hyd. fluid under tractor, to check if hoses are "cracked"
 
Last edited: