L2350 unusual start procedure:

[Stangit]

L2350 unusual start procedure:

My used L2350 Kubota has worked fine for me for the last 1-1/2 yrs. Late last fall starting became an issue, the starter wouldn't turn over, just click. There was an old Walmart battery in it, so I bought a premium, twice the size that was in it and cleaned all connections, resulting in the exact same results. I did check all the safeties, Clutch Switch, Kill Switch released, Fuseable link has continuity, Glow Plug Indicator has continuity, Transmission in Neutral and the operators manual says the high-low gear lever should be in neutral. I've owned this tractor for a 1-1/2 yrs. and I'm sure I've
started this tractor with this lever in gear. Also all fuses check O.K.
All lights and indicator lights and gauges function.
So I have the starter rebuilt. I was told the armature was bad, he said this particular starter was prone to armature failure. I'm an old timer, I've worked on the 50's. 60's and 70's starters and I've never had to replace an armature. I'm open to input on this matter.
Here's the real kicker, I install the starter, turn the Ign. key to the left to energize the glow plugs and the starter turns over and the engine starts! Not sure what to think of this I start checking all wiring connection to see if anything is overheating, (I'm allowing the tractor to run). I found nothing out of the ordinary, except my fuel gauge, which has always worked, was not working. I shut down the tractor and just moved the Ign. switch to the left and right with out going into start mode and my fuel gauge worked just fine turning in both directions.
According to the Op. manual turning the key to the left preheats the Glo-Plugs. Why is this tractor starting in this position, for the last year and a half it didn't.
No wiring has been removed by me. Is it possible the ignition switch is failing? Could this have been my problem from the beginning?
If anyone out there has knowledge on this issue I would appreciate your input. By the way, I've looked on line for a new Ignition switch for an L2350 and cannot find one. If anyone could provide me with a link for a replacement switch, I would again be appreciative. Thanks.
Oh, one last thing, I would like to use the tractor, do you think starting and running it in this condition will do any damage, until I get a new switch?

 

[coachgeo]

sorry for the delay in getting posted. It got auto flagged as possible spam. Rarely happens.... but it does. Just approved this. You should get a reply soon.

 

[Dave_eng]

L2350 unusual start procedure:

My used L2350 Kubota has worked fine for me for the last 1-1/2 yrs. Late last fall starting became an issue, the starter wouldn't turn over, just click. There was an old Walmart battery in it, so I bought a premium, twice the size that was in it and cleaned all connections, resulting in the exact same results. I did check all the safeties, Clutch Switch, Kill Switch released, Fuseable link has continuity, Glow Plug Indicator has continuity, Transmission in Neutral and the operators manual says the high-low gear lever should be in neutral. I've owned this tractor for a 1-1/2 yrs. and I'm sure I've
started this tractor with this lever in gear. Also all fuses check O.K.
All lights and indicator lights and gauges function.
So I have the starter rebuilt. I was told the armature was bad, he said this particular starter was prone to armature failure. I'm an old timer, I've worked on the 50's. 60's and 70's starters and I've never had to replace an armature. I'm open to input on this matter.
Here's the real kicker, I install the starter, turn the Ign. key to the left to energize the glow plugs and the starter turns over and the engine starts! Not sure what to think of this I start checking all wiring connection to see if anything is overheating, (I'm allowing the tractor to run). I found nothing out of the ordinary, except my fuel gauge, which has always worked, was not working. I shut down the tractor and just moved the Ign. switch to the left and right with out going into start mode and my fuel gauge worked just fine turning in both directions.
According to the Op. manual turning the key to the left preheats the Glo-Plugs. Why is this tractor starting in this position, for the last year and a half it didn't.
No wiring has been removed by me. Is it possible the ignition switch is failing? Could this have been my problem from the beginning?
If anyone out there has knowledge on this issue I would appreciate your input. By the way, I've looked on line for a new Ignition switch for an L2350 and cannot find one. If anyone could provide me with a link for a replacement switch, I would again be appreciative. Thanks.
Oh, one last thing, I would like to use the tractor, do you think starting and running it in this condition will do any damage, until I get a new switch?

Regarding using the tractor before the problem is found, my main concern would be that the glow plugs are staying on and either burn out or kill your battery. Also the charging circuit is likely not connected to the battery in the preheat position. I guess I don't know where you put the key once the engine fires so the battery may be being charged..

The starter relies on a good clean contact to the engine block to complete its circuit. If surfaces were rusty then the starter current could find alternate paths.
The likelihood of the key switch failing just now seems highly unlikely.

To be clear you turn the key to the preheat position and the engine cranks? A bad glow plug circuit ground can cause other things to be energized.

A photo of the starter and glow plug side of the engine will tell a lot.

I did not hear you mention removing the ground cable at the frame or engine block and cleaning it thoroughly. Once you do that buy another battery cable with an eye on each end. Run this new cable from the present ground point to the mounting bolt on the starter itself making certain the metal surfaces are shiny and rust free.

What do you have in the way of tools to help diagnose electrical problems.
Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I can't say I agree with Dave, Yes I would say it logical your whole problem has been the switch.
Does it feel "hard","off" or "crunchy"when you turn it?
Since the fuel gauge is not working that tells you that it's not charging as the charging and gauge system share the same hot lead.
Here is a new switch, P/N 32430-31820:
https://www.colemanequip.com/parts/details/KubotaParts/SWITCH--MAIN/32430-31820/

If you don't have the WSM (aka service manual) just ask, I have that manual.
It shows exactly how to test the switches.

FYI: There is only one safety switch on that model it's the clutch switch.

 

[Stangit]

First off, I want to thank both of you for your time, answering my issue.
I have not attempted to start the tractor again, damaging the glow-plugs sounds a little disconcerting. I have very little knowledge on Diesel engines. To answer your questions in the order asked, I honestly don't know what the position of the Ignition. key was when the engine started. Yes, the key was turned to the left when it started. I can say, if the switch is spring loaded it's weak because it moves very slowly when released, but there is no grinding from the housing when turned.
You are correct on the fact that I did not check the negative ground connection. I will check and clean the connection. The cables themselves are in very good conditions and the starter seemed to have a strong engagement, (just was shocked when the starter engaged when I thought I was going to pre-heat the glow plugs.) All lighting seems to be very bright.

I might add something else that was odd, this tractor has always had quite a bit of black smoke when it's first started and on heavy acceleration, which I assumed was normal. This tractor has not ran since late last fall. When it started-up there was no smoke what so ever and I allowed it to run approximately 5-10 minutes and I accelerated it a couple of times just before I shut it down and still there was no smoke. Hope this had no detrimental effects on the glow plugs?

Detailed electrical schematics are very confusing for me, a simple gas powered riding mower I can handle. This tractor, with a bit of guidance maybe. I own a couple of multi-meters, an older analog, (needle style), and a, (excuse me), Harbor Freight digital freebie, which some of the numbers it spits out can be quite confusing. I have an old K-D continuity probe I've had probably for 50yrs. that's served me well for checking DC current.
I mentioned I have not messed with the wiring on this tractor, but that's not to say someone else hasn't. Below the starter there is a group of wires that were poorly taped together. I removed the tape revealing a couple of heavier gauged wires. One has a spade connection with a clear plastic tube surrounding it, I assume this is the fuse-able link and it does have continuity. There is a solid white wire that has been cut, not capped-off and I have no idea where it goes or where it came from. It's coming out of the braided wiring harness that leads up to the dash. Mind you, this tractor has ran for a year - and - a - half with no electrical issues.
I believe this tractor has spent a great deal of it's time outside in the elements. Not much rust but the paint is weathered. I store it under a lean-to, out of the elements but not temperature extremes.

One more comment on the electrical. The fuse box has no cover, not sure if it had one, but it's definitely exposed to a lot of dirt and dust. The fuses were very dirty but checked O.K. On closer examination, the center row of fuses, on the bottom was a 15amp., above that a 10amp. and I noticed two shiny items which turned out to be two broken spades, (no plastic base) embedded in the block, above the 10amp. Using my pocket knife I managed to remove the two pieces. Not sure what was there, I inserted a 10amp fuse. Fuse blocks seem to vary on this tractor so I'm not sure if that fuse is even necessary? Note: this was all done before I contacted you.
Thanks N.I.W. for the COLEMAN Link. I went ahead and purchased the Switch, (it's on it's way). It's at least 23 yrs. old. Just one less Item to troubleshoot.
I'll gladly takes some pic's if it will help. Not sure how to upload them, I'm sure you have, (how to), instructions somewhere on this site.
Lastly, Shop Manual: Right after I bought the tractor, I went online and ordered a DVD shop manual, browsed through it once and put it away. The tractor was trouble free up till now so I never needed it. Guess what, I can't find the disk. Sure as heck I order another one, I'll find this one. So hopefully I'll solve this problem without it and get lucky enough to come across where I placed it. (I'll make duplicates and places them all over the house!)
Thanks Again. Rick

 

[Daren Todd]

Start checking your quick connects in the wiring around the dash, as well as terminals where the wires connect such as the back of the fuse holder, and key switch. Look for corrosion or moisture. Dads L2250 was prone to bad connections in the quick connects under the dash. Causing the dash lights, guages, and hazard light to not work, or work when not turned on Also caused staring issues since the clutch safety switch wasn't being recognized.

Another cause could be melted wiring. Check around the engine block and exhaust manifold. If wire loom is contacting either, make sure and move the wiring.

My L1501 had starting issues and had an after market push button switch to engage the starter. Started checking the wiring and found it melted down against the engine block in a hard to reach place. Fixed the wiring, removed the push button switch, and could use the knob for the glow plugs and starter.

 

[Dave_eng]

I have had very good luck with $9.99 WSM's with immediate download.

I have bought a few trying to help owners who had no documents and less knowledge.

The pages were clear and the illustrations also. Not muddy photocopied pages.

They have a WSM for your L2350.
http://kubota.servicemanualvault.com/Kubota-L2350-Tractor-Workshop-Manual.html

On one Mahindra WSM, the engine stop solenoid on the tractor was different from the one in the WSM.

I was offered an immediate refund but decided to keep the WSM as it would be a valuable resource for the future.

Also, if you buy it, it becomes easy to share with others who are trying to help you.

Dave

 

[Stangit]

Thanks Dave, for the link, appreciate your support, "North Idaho Wolfman" provided me with a "WSM", which I now have. Going out this weekend to double-check connections I may have overlooked. The new starter is supposed to be here by the first of the week. Will update everyone on the outcome. Rick

 

[adventure bob]

Does it shut off when you let go from the glow plug position?
From left to right I think your ignition switch is: glow, off, run, start.
Does it also start, or at least spin over, by going to the start position?

 

[Stangit]

Well, I'm back with good news, the Ignition switch arrived with harness and all, I hooked everything up and she fired right-up! You could definitely tell the difference between the old and new switch. The old switch movement was really stiff and did have kind of a catch when you turned it to the left, which is more noticeable, since I've installed the new one, which is smooth and very responsive. Apparently no damage occurred with that weird start-up.
Many thanks for everyone's input and a special thanks to N.I.W. for the WSM material.
That 'ole saying "when it rain's it pours" appears to be happening to me, when I moved the tractor, I noticed an oil spot below the Rt. front wheel. Apparently I have a seal leaking, hopefully nothing is cracked?
I had 13-tons of gravel delivered this winter while the ground was frozen that I'm wanting to spread. Not sure how serious the leak is but scrolling through the forum it appears to be a pretty common problem with these tractors. Hopefully, I can tackle this issue by reviewing what other's have done already. Thanks again, Rick.