How to power my Long 1200 backhoe attachment

ted928

Member

Equipment
L2950 GST 4WD, LA450
Jun 24, 2012
36
0
6
Charlton, NY
I think I have three options:
1) replace the PTO driven ASME type B pump that is fixed to the backhoe,
2) purchase a PTO pump and hoses,
3) or hook up the backhoe to my tractor's Hydraulic Block.

I am not crazy about option 3 since it means my precious Glide Shift transmission is sharing fluid with my back hoe.
Regarding option 2, will the PTO Shaft Cover be in the way? Does it provide the restraint needed for a PTO pump?

TIA
Ted - L2950 GST 4WD, LA450 Loader
 

kubotafreak

Well-known member

Equipment
GRAND l6060, L3560, B6100, gr2100, tg 1860, g1800, g1900, g2160
Sep 20, 2018
1,019
372
83
Arkansas, US
Two hoses, feed and return? I would break off the PB of the tractor and do like the factory. It would eliminate the extra pump nonsense. You question the backhoe fluid? Is it real old or dirty? Just crack the cylinder lines and bleed them down. Your front loader, and factory Kubota implements share the same tank fluid.

If the rig is set up for a pump, it has its own tank. If that is the case I would repair or replace the external pump.

There is a difference between return pressure, and return to tank. Return is still power beyond, tank is the last in the circuit, and back to tank.

OPTION 2, Usually there is a chain to attach to the lift arm or something to keep the pump restrained. (cover may need to be removed, depends on size of pump)
 

ted928

Member

Equipment
L2950 GST 4WD, LA450
Jun 24, 2012
36
0
6
Charlton, NY
The backhoe has two hoses; pressure from the BH's pump and a return to tank through a filter.
The tractor's PB is on the front right side. It has quick disconnects to operate the FEL.
Are you recommending adding two long hoses to the BH with quick disconnects and simply swap them in for the FEL? Or are you suggesting I add another PB to the tractor's rear? TIA
 

kubotafreak

Well-known member

Equipment
GRAND l6060, L3560, B6100, gr2100, tg 1860, g1800, g1900, g2160
Sep 20, 2018
1,019
372
83
Arkansas, US
Assuming open center hydraulics backhoe. You can run whatever length hose from the loader PB, to the input of the backhoe valve stack. Add whatever quick connects to make it convenient for you. Then plumb the PB from backhoe to the other end of tractor to complete the tractors PB circuit. This way when the backhoe is off, the two ends of the tractor PB extension will be reconnected to complete the factory loop to 3 point. That is how kubota plumbs the factory bh option unless it is closed center. If that is the case, Which I highly doubt, you will have three hoses, one P, one T, and one sense line. The last PB can return to tank if it is the last or only in a circuit.

If this is too much, then I would just fix the self contained pto pump/tank.
 

kubotafreak

Well-known member

Equipment
GRAND l6060, L3560, B6100, gr2100, tg 1860, g1800, g1900, g2160
Sep 20, 2018
1,019
372
83
Arkansas, US
The backhoe has two hoses; pressure from the BH's pump and a return to tank through a filter.
The tractor's PB is on the front right side. It has quick disconnects to operate the FEL.
Are you recommending adding two long hoses to the BH with quick disconnects and simply swap them in for the FEL? Or are you suggesting I add another PB to the tractor's rear? TIA
The tractors hydraulic block already has a PB line that feeds the factory 3 point. I am saying you break this line into a feed

factory = PB-loader > P-three point
proposed with implement = PB-loader > P-backhoe line in PB-backhoe line out > P-three point
 

old and tired

Well-known member

Equipment
L2800 HST; 2005; R4
So I finally gave away a Long 1199a... These backhoes are too strong for your tractor's 3point hitch. I bought a heavy duty top link and decided it was also not going to be strong enough.

Mine had a PTO pump, independent from the tractor... unless you are hooking up to tractor hydraulics since they would be a bit lower in pressure and GPM (speed).

We put it on the back side of 6k pound bulldozer and it ripped 6 bolts out of the top link hook up.
 

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kubotafreak

Well-known member

Equipment
GRAND l6060, L3560, B6100, gr2100, tg 1860, g1800, g1900, g2160
Sep 20, 2018
1,019
372
83
Arkansas, US
So I finally gave away a Long 1199a... These backhoes are too strong for your tractor's 3point hitch. I bought a heavy duty top link and decided it was also not going to be strong enough.

Mine had a PTO pump, independent from the tractor... unless you are hooking up to tractor hydraulics since they would be a bit lower in pressure and GPM (speed).
THIS!☝ I dont know how large a 1200 is, but they are hard on the three point. My subframe mounted unit is hard on the machine at times.
 

ted928

Member

Equipment
L2950 GST 4WD, LA450
Jun 24, 2012
36
0
6
Charlton, NY
Thanks for all the input guys. I really do appreciate it. I am not sure what I'll do as it seems like all my options are kind of clunky.

I have had the backhoe for 20 years and I used it with my Ford NAA. It was feed by the loader pump. It is a beast as it broke my NAA lifting arm. The backhoe spec is 8gpm, 2000 psi.

I don't plan to use the backhoe much but I want to get it working with my L2950 for light use as the backhoe is infinitely better than using only a shovel.

Option 1: Replacing the backhoe's SAE B-mount pump is not straightforward as there is no gearbox on the backhoe so the fastest I could run the pump is 1000rpm (my tractor pto speed is 540 or 1000) while the pumps are rated at 2000rpm. And I am not sure how to adapt my pto shaft to the pump's shaft.

Option 2: Not cheap and I am not sure it will fit without removing the PTO shield.

Option 3: I was hoping there was a simple kit I could use to feed the backhoe from the tractor but there doesn't seem to be. Currently there is a quick disconnect on the PB line between the loader control valve and the hydraulic block - I could use that junction to add the backhoe in series. That seems like the cleanest way to tie-in the backhoe.

Thoughts? TIA
 

old and tired

Well-known member

Equipment
L2800 HST; 2005; R4
Removing the PTO shield was the first modification I did... even before I had a implement to mount to it.

Believe me, forget 540 rpms, you'll want to run the backhoe at idle.

Your old Ford tractor was a Sherman Tank compared to your Kubota...

If you still plan to go ahead with this, at least build a heavy duty top plate and attach (bolt) it to the ROPS (which I never got around to since I scraped my plan). The top mount bolts under your seat on the top of the transmission.

Sorry, I really don't know the best way to power the unit other than a PTO pump and filter just before the intake. The legs and bottom of my backhoe was the holding tank for the oil.

EDIT: explain photos, without welding the ears onto the top plate, those 6 bolts would strip out. 2nd - View of the top of the top plate. 3rd - black thing is the base of the suspension seat (w/o the seat); uses 6 bolts to the top; notice the side (45*) weld joining the back to the top.
 

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ted928

Member

Equipment
L2950 GST 4WD, LA450
Jun 24, 2012
36
0
6
Charlton, NY
You raise an excellent point - I just assumed my Kubota was stronger than my old NAA. Thanks for the warning. I forgot the NAA design has a spring which helped to handle the shock loads - the L2950 is rigid and weaker. Looks like I'll be getting rid of the backhoe as I don't want to risk damaging my L2950.
 
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old and tired

Well-known member

Equipment
L2800 HST; 2005; R4
Can you fabricate? It's a great hoe but needs a Cat 2 or larger tractor. That's what they were built for... I thought about mounting it to a dump truck frame or building another independent frame to be pulled with a tractor. OR building a sub-frame to hold the backhoe but again it's designed for a much larger tractor.
 

ted928

Member

Equipment
L2950 GST 4WD, LA450
Jun 24, 2012
36
0
6
Charlton, NY
I can swap parts but I can't fabricate. I'm pretty useless. I just like machinery, learning, and hate shoveling. LOL.
I have a retaining wall I built 20 years ago that needs to be rebuilt (this time I will use geogrid to tie it in). It is only 5 blocks tall and 15' long but I was hoping to get the old backhoe going to help. I put my old pump back on it and fired it up. I got it out of the brush so I can pressure wash it. I haven't moved it in 8 years or so. Maybe I'll try a little light digging (carefully) this weekend. Since the pump is weak, that should help protect my upper link mount.
If I decide to sell it, what do you think is a fair price? The bushings, hoses, and cylinders are all in good shape. It has three buckets (12", 18", 28") and parts manual but it needs a pump. Thanks
 

old and tired

Well-known member

Equipment
L2800 HST; 2005; R4
Any neighbors have a Cat 2 tractor? Let them have the backhoe with the understanding that you can "borrow" it.

Price-wise, I bought mine for $750 but it is very sloppy. They come up for sale at lot at $1500... and they don't stay around very long (I assume they sell). I would price it at $1800 and see what happens, 3 buckets are a big plus.

Replacement pump: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...P-PTO-A-3-6-S-Hydraulic-PTO-Pump-9-8902-3.axd

I wonder if your pump can just be rebuilt...