Have problems with M108S. bad injector.

Ingi

New member

Equipment
M108S
Aug 3, 2020
8
0
1
332 Hayes Road Delhi NY 13753
Hi. I have two M108S tractors. Have problem with both of them and a Kubota mechanic came to scan them. EGR valve motor bad in one, so we took the motor out of the other one, problem solved. Just that the Kubota dealer wanted over $600 for the whole EGR valve assembly, does not sell the motor separate. Found the motor on the net for $128 so we are good there I hope. The other one has a bad injector and I do not want to pay over $900 for a new one, plus installation, plus picking the tractor up.

So what do I do? Move to the dark side? Buy an aftermarket injector, get a hacking software etc. etc. ? In my mind criminal not selling this EGR valve motor separate and forcing one to buy the whole thing.

Not the first time I have come up against this with Kubota. The shuttle valve started to leak. They wanted to sell me a new one for over $1000, but was able to find the special o-ring needed for for about $2. Criminal behavior by Kubota in my mind. This o-ring still holding now 2 years later, the tractor used almost every day.

First I am going to try some heavy duty cleaner in the fuel to see if that helps cleaning the injector.
 
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BigG

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l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
Sep 14, 2018
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West Central,FL
North Idaho Wolfman who will help you I am sure. He refers people to "Oregon fuel injection" when they need rebuilt injectors.

 

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,197
546
83
USA
Gotta love emission compliant engines..... not.
 
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lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
4,807
1,575
113
Mid, South, USA
hows the fuel quality?

bad fuel will eat parts, period. Common rail engines are SUPER SENSITIVE to poor quality fuel, water, gasoline, even some additives.

Fuel companies (those who blend the fuels) and then gas stations are mostly to blame. The water content is way too high. Some stations push multiple fuels through the pipes, although that's changing quickly. Hopefully to be solved soon. The tractor does have a water separator but it doesn't stop 100% of the water, some is still in suspension in the fuel as it passes thru the separator.

A lot of times parts are sold as assemblies for a lot of reasons. One, the manufacturer (in this case Kubota) buys the assembly from another manufacturer, and Kubota may not have the parts to rebuild the assembly. That's one reason. Another is emissions. They won't sell you a EGR motor because the emissions nazis don't want you messing with it. I fear that in the future, DIY repairs on engines will be deemed illegal, and I fully oppose it!

Most times when I get injector and/or pump failures, I send a fuel sample off for lab work. 90% of the time it comes back with excessive moisture content, sometimes gasoline contamination. I had one once came back with some really weird stuff in the analysis, and the owner came clean and said he poured week killer into the fuel tank by accident.
 

Ingi

New member

Equipment
M108S
Aug 3, 2020
8
0
1
332 Hayes Road Delhi NY 13753
Thanks. First to put heavy duty cleaner in the fuel, then Oregon, last the dark side.
So things have developed and some of you who have these tractors or similar might find my venting and ranting educational :).

So we used the tractor with the stolen/cannibalised EGR valve motor from the other tractor, no issues. So it was only the motor itself messing up, that problem solved.

As I said, they wanted over $600 for the EGR valve assembly at the dealership, the whole assembly one part number and no other help from them.

When we tried the net, somehow this part came up. Looked exactly the same in the picture, the plug and everything for $125. Ordered it from StockWiseAuto.com and here in a day or two.

Put it on the tractor and no issues. I was a little nervous, looked them same on the outside, but maybe something else underneath, worked out. Putting in a picture of the label on the box.

I can maybe accept Kubota not wanting to play around with emission issues, but had the same issue with the shuttle valve assembly. They wanted over $1000 for it, but only a special o-ring for a couple of dollars the problem, still holding now 2 years later with daily use.

Hard enough to be a farmer, but extremely depressing having this feeling or emotion if you will, the company you have the equipment from and paid dearly for, being the enemy, as if they want to bankrupt you Yesterday. Talk about laughing all the way to their bank somewhere in Japan I presume.

So here is a suggestion to you Kubota owners, or those of you who's brother-in-law is a lawyer, let's get together and sue the bastards, a class action or something.

Feeling a lot better already, almost singing out loud. :giggle:

More on the injectors later, also developing. Maybe the dark side is not black after all, more grayish.
 

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lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
4,807
1,575
113
Mid, South, USA
good luck with your lawsuit.

most have no idea what manufacturing is, and how complex it is, from the day you buy the materials to build something to the day the warranty runs out (and it really ain't over then either). When it's melted down for scrap, THEN it's over.

You are right, farmin ain't easy. Never was. I didn't have a lot of farmin experience, just about 2 years as a hand when I was younger. Decided it was easier to fix tractors at the dealer than it was to fix them in the field out in the hot sun with the operator breathing over you telling you how to do it.

The bad part about it is that it's not Kubota's fault that emissions stuff is there to begin with. The root cause is the liberal higher-ups in our governments that decided that tractors should have the stuff. So honestly the complaint is misdirected; should be to your congressmen. This whole deal started way back, in California. As usual, the rest of the country took note and the EPA, with heavy pressure from folks from California adopted diesel emissions, circa 1997 when it was amended (although 1974 is when it really "started"). Several times through the years our leaders have had the opportunities to amend, however they chose not to, at least not "going backward" amendment. Each time, the liberal tree huggers won. So how did tractors get involved? It is my understanding that most all diesel tractors are considered heavy duty engines/equipment, thus are included. A technicality. I say pressure your congressmen to relax some of the stupid garbage that has to be put on them.

On that note actually they don't require DPF, DEF, and common rail. The EPA just gives manufacturers a set of rules to go by in the amount of NoX, CO2, CO, and particulate matter (among many other things). How the manufacturer goes about doing it is up to them. Currently, what we are dealing with is all that's known available and is the least expensive option.

I personally advocate for gasoline engines on smaller (under 35hp) tractors. Kubota already has the engines available, they make more torque than the diesel does in some cases, quieter, smoother, simpler, MUCH less expensive, and they are basically the same block as the diesels, so they go right onto the transmissions. However the big problem with gas is volatility and the fact that it gets old. Similar to DEF tractors (DEF gets old too), as it ages, it degrades and that is a huge problem for tractors, most of them sit all the time and that's never good for gasoline to just sit. But I think it's time to explore that option for <35hp. Could you imagine? B3350G. Gasoline. You couldn't hear or feel it run. The engine is already there, just used elsewhere. Think about it, with turbocharging, electronic fuel injection, ETV, etc there ain't no reason it can't be done aside from the fuel going sour over time.
 
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Ingi

New member

Equipment
M108S
Aug 3, 2020
8
0
1
332 Hayes Road Delhi NY 13753
most have no idea what manufacturing is, and how complex it is, from the day you buy the materials to build something to the day the warranty runs out (and it really ain't over then either). When it's melted down for scrap, THEN it's over.
Can't say I disagree with anything you say, a man eat man world out there. But will say this, would rather have Kubota for dinner, than Kubota having me for sushi and I do not buy Kubota is refusing to give parts numbers in an assembly for legal reasons. No Kubota wants to milk us owners of their equipment for every drop, fleece us and skin and that is the truth.

Admit, don't know how that truth would hold up in court, but think about it sometimes, if for no other reason but to feel better. The difference between a shuttle valve assembly for over $1000 and about $2 for an o-ring in it is staggering, maybe a judge would take notice.

Also I wonder, if I went to Japan, do they break these assemblies down into parts numbers over there or in other countries, only Americans the suckers?

More later, want to comment on other things you write. interesting. Maybe gas engines in tractors should come back. Have a MF85 gas in the barn. Has power steering, hydraulic pto clutch if I remember right, maybe it could do some haying. More on that later.
 

Ingi

New member

Equipment
M108S
Aug 3, 2020
8
0
1
332 Hayes Road Delhi NY 13753
So here we are as of now. The problem solved with the EGR valve on the one M108S, "the platform one" as we call it, bought that one new. The other "the cab one" a different story.

Both very close in serial numbers but "the cab one" came with about 3000 hours on it. Out of southern Florida where it did mowing. We had to change hydraulic pumps, rebuild the steering pump etc, but otherwise a good buy.

Remember we dumped the fuel, didn't look good, think the tractor was sitting a while before we got it, does the fuel no good down there in the heat I would think.

The "platform one" came with a loader, very nice to use with the shuttle valve. Mostly used to get hay to the cattle here at 2000 feet in Central New York in winter, haying in summer and the obvious reason for getting the "cab one", just toooo cold.

It was obvious from the beginning "the cab one" did not have the same power as the "platform one". Not a real problem doing loader work in winter and on the wrapper in summer, Jason likes the AC.

But slowly getting worse so the Kubota mechanic came and scanned it. Cylinder 3 doing nothing and cylinder 2 weak. Between us three, the mechanic, Jason and me, the most likely explanation bad injectors.

Could be leaking between cylinders. Going to check the blowby compared to the "the platform one". Put a hose on the vent, stick it in water and compare, should tell us something, right? Compression test coming up and changing out the injectors in the plans too.

Called them in Oregon, they don't do anything with common rail injectors but can get me new ones if I get the numbers of the ones in the tractors.

And that's when we move to the dark side if I understand the legality right, can get software from Israel to reprogram the tractor for the new injectors but have to do more studying. What upsets me, a farmer trying to maintain my equipment and just not right I am moving into a gray area to do it.
 

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,197
546
83
USA
Interesting, I have 2 M9's as well. A 'platform one' which is an open station and a cab one which is a cab of course. Bought the cab unit new in 2004. Bought the open station last year with 6000 hours on it. Power wise, my cab is a little down compared to the open station but, I just had the open station 'tuned up. last winter, valve adjustment, injectors pulled and tested, etc and put on the dyno. It's making 93 pto horsepower and runs like a top with no issues at all. remember it has 6K hours on the meter. My cab tractor has 1500 and change and need a trip to the dealer as well for a valve adjustment (1000 hours is the interval recommended by Kubota).

Mechanically, both are as close to 100% as possible for their ages. I do need to replace the coupler on the FWA driveshaft on the OS, it's about worn out. It rattles. No biggie, have the part and the roll pin in the shop.

I don't use anything but genuine Kubota parts and filters and always have. Just my 2 cents.
 

Ingi

New member

Equipment
M108S
Aug 3, 2020
8
0
1
332 Hayes Road Delhi NY 13753
I don't use anything but genuine Kubota parts and filters and always have. Just my 2 cents.
And worth more than 2 cents I am sure. But when they want over $1000 for a shuttle assembly fixed with an o-ring worth $2, I start to get a little paranoid.

I would have paid $12.99 for that o-ring in a Kubota bag and loved Kubota for it. Even $39.99 for all the o-rings in the assembly, but to me criminal behavior not to break the parts down in the assembly.

I am not blaming those at the local dealership, either the Kubotaway or the highway I guess. Must make them feel miserable having to screw us the owners of their equipment.

Why can´t we all get along, who in the company decided to do it this way?
 

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,197
546
83
USA
And worth more than 2 cents I am sure. But when they want over $1000 for a shuttle assembly fixed with an o-ring worth $2, I start to get a little paranoid.

I would have paid $12.99 for that o-ring in a Kubota bag and loved Kubota for it. Even $39.99 for all the o-rings in the assembly, but to me criminal behavior not to break the parts down in the assembly.

I am not blaming those at the local dealership, either the Kubotaway or the highway I guess. Must make them feel miserable having to screw us the owners of their equipment.

Why can´t we all get along, who in the company decided to do it this way?

Not the only ones, they are all like that, some more so than others. JD comes right to mind for gouging.

Cars and trucks are the same deal. If you built a car of truck from parts, it would cost you 15 times as much as the fully assembled unit.

Just bought an input seal form my NH round baler. 40 bucks for a half dollar sized plastic ring. Bet it cost less than a dime to make.

Some Kubota OEM parts are reasonable, most are outrageous. Been there do that, all the time. I'm just glad my tractors are pre emission units. Don't want any of that tree hugger green junk, it's all expensive to replace or even repair.

In your case, I think I would have sized the 'O' ring and replaced it with a non OEM one.
 

Ingi

New member

Equipment
M108S
Aug 3, 2020
8
0
1
332 Hayes Road Delhi NY 13753
In your case, I think I would have sized the 'O' ring and replaced it with a non OEM one.
And that's what we did. Have to admit, me and Jason a little timid, maybe Kubota wanted to sell the whole assembly because of some other wear in it. But now 2 years later still holding. $2 versus $1000 the issue.

Finished haying until we start 2. cutting so we were playing around a little bit with both tractors this morning, comparing noises and such. Put a cleaner in the fuel of the one with maybe bad injectors and think maybe it has more power after couple of hours of work, hard to tell.

Did this blowby test, stuck a cup of water on the vent hose and surprised how much both bubbled at idle, did not expect that. Couldn't see any difference between tractors.

We will work the tractor for a few weeks while we plan next move, to put out $1500 for this software has to pass by the wife.