GR2100 intermittent starting

[hudog]

I have a GR2100 with the diesel. It is starting intermittently. I can hear the solenoid kick in every time I turn the key to the start position, but the starter may or may not start. This happens whether it's a cold or warm start, probably about 50% of the time. At this time I don't see a pattern to the problem in terms of troubleshooting.

I manually move the mower forward a bit, but that doesn't seem to make a difference. Battery is fully charged, it's getting full voltage / current to the starter / solenoid.

Some of the safety interlocks are bypassed, but I've checked them, and they are not intermittent. I know the brake pedal needs to be fully depressed when starting....

I don't have a wiring diagram. When it does start it cranks like it's fully charged and starts quickly. The starter position hasn't changed from when it doesn't start.

Any ideas on where to start debug?

thanks,

George / Minnesota

 

[Barquester]

I have a GR2100 with the diesel. It is starting intermittently. I can hear the solenoid kick in every time I turn the key to the start position, but the starter may or may not start. This happens whether it's a cold or warm start, probably about 50% of the time. At this time I don't see a pattern to the problem in terms of troubleshooting.

I manually move the mower forward a bit, but that doesn't seem to make a difference. Battery is fully charged, it's getting full voltage / current to the starter / solenoid.

Some of the safety interlocks are bypassed, but I've checked them, and they are not intermittent. I know the brake pedal needs to be fully depressed when starting....

I don't have a wiring diagram. When it does start it cranks like it's fully charged and starts quickly. The starter position hasn't changed from when it doesn't start.

Any ideas on where to start debug?

thanks,

George / Minnesota

you should be able to get a diagram for free here:
http://www.messicks.com/TractorParts/Kubota/GR2100.aspx

 

[motorhead]

First step would to check ALL grounds and any other connections to the starter. Just a question but are you sure the BATTERY is good? A battery with a separated internal connector can be intermittent. Have it load tested. Next would be to remove the starter and pull the back cover off of it and check that the brushes on the motor are free in their holders and not burned down. Lastly would be to replace the starter solenoid. I hate to suggest this way to test but next time the starter just clicks, Get a small hammer and hit the side of the starter then try it. If this "Caveman" technique works then the starter motor either has a bad solenoid or bad brushes. HOW many hours on the unit? Is it started and stopped a lot?

 

[hudog]

Thanks for the info. I'll get a wiring diagram.

I'll pull the battery and starter / solenoid, and get them tested out of the tractor, and check the starter brushes. That should verify whether there's a problem with these 3 items. If I don't find anything there, I'll start tracing through the wiring in the starter circuit and test tracing for bad grounds.

The tractor only has about 500 hrs on it. The previous owner gave me all the service records, but none pertained to this electrical issue.

It's a great tractor with the tight steering and AWD. I mow 2 lots with it, hilly with a lot of trees, and mowing time is much faster with the Kubota. The torque on the diesel engine is great. This is my first Kubota.

 

[motorhead]

500 hours is really nothing for a starter. When I worked at UPS, the package car could be started and stopped 200-300 times a day. They would usually replace the starter once a year.
I would suggest that you do ONE thing at a time unless logistics prevent it. Check the connections FIRST, If no results then check the battery. You can go to a NAPA or one of the chain auto parts stores and they will usually LOAD check it for free. Then check the STARTER motor internals then replace the solenoid.
I'm thinking that the starter got moisture in it somehow and the brushes are stuck. Don't buy a rebuilt if you can help it. They are usually junk. There are a bunch of the cheap Chinese starters too. Stay away from them. I looked up your starter and it looks to be a popular one. The application showed many Kubota engines it fit.

 

[lsmurphy]

I'm assuming that your solenoid is on the starter....? If so you'll have a post that your positive cable from the battery is mounted to and you'll also have the post that your trigger wire is mounted to, the smaller of the two. Make up a test wire with two alligator clips on it (good to keep around for future testing) and attach one clip to the post on the solenoid for the trigger wire and touch the other end to the positive post on the battery. If the starter engages every time you test the starter..........your problem is elsewhere.

Regardless, I would make up a new ground cable from the battery and mount it as close to the starter as possible, I would also mount a new smaller ground wire to the dash.

Poor grounds, cables, and ignition switches will also cause intermittent starting.

 

[lsmurphy]

These are old pics and I have since gone through the entire tractor and wiring. If you want your tractor or truck or car to start every time you turn the key......

Copper lugs that are solder filled, brass post clamps............and clean clean clean.

 

[wbillrad]

hudog,

If you are still out there, what was the resolution to your GR2100 intermittent starting?

 

[SuperDave]

I have the same problem. I've just been dealing with it for the last few years. Would like to know if anyone has found a solid fix for it though.

 

[tthorkil]

I have seen the John Deere Starting Relay kit recommended many times in this forum - http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11769

 

[Dave_eng]

I have seen the John Deere Starting Relay kit recommended many times in this forum - http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11769

I can easily walk you through making your own kit for less than $10.

I suggest this relay and socket from Amazon as it has waterproof socket.

https://www.amazon.com/OLS-Waterpro...ons&keywords=headlight+relay+and+socket&psc=1

You can go to an autoparts store and buy a headlight relay and socket + a large ring crimp on terminal. Their relay will not have the waterproof socket.

With the Amazon relay, you still need the large crimp on ring terminal. Big enough to fit over the battery cable connection at the starter solenoid.

Once you have these items and after posting a photo of your starter, come back I will give you easy instructions.

The purpose of this modification is not to eliminate safety switches but to deal with the higher resistance contacts in these switches which develop over time.

Dave

 

[lugbolt]

I was going to say, you can pick up a relay, a relay socket, a box of connectors and build it yourself. In this area, you can get all of it...EXCEPT the relay socket for under $10. The socket is nonexistent, order basis only, about $11 everywhere I checked.

I can make them no problem; and make them well. But to market them/sell them, they'd be about $45 to cover all of the costs of making/selling them to the OTT community. JD offers theirs for about the same price and most dealers have them in stock. So I saw no need in making them/selling them.

The JD kit is super simple and literally bolts on and plugs in, so you don't have to spend a half hour of your time making a kit that goes on in 30 seconds.

 

[goslowlowe]

I have the same problem. I've just been dealing with it for the last few years. Would like to know if anyone has found a solid fix for it though.

Me too! IVe used the “caveman” method for a year or two for an infrequent starting issue, then more frequent, now no starting or or solenoid clicking . Im pretty sure anyway. There is an initial click but I dont think its the solenoid but rather something else that always clicks on (and still does) and clicks off 10-15 seconds after turning the key off. Suggestions ?
Meanwhile I think check all my connections,then I ll take the starter off and see if it turns over straight from a different battery .thanks.
And ; theres no way to roll this 500lb beast at all?The dealer advises they drag em with a winch out of the middle of my lawn!?

 

[Petee716]

I'm new to the forum, 1st post. I've been having the intermittent clicking problem on my 2200 for a couple years but the machine always starts so I just left it alone until today. I checked the battery, connections, voltage at the solenoid, etc all normal. Then I witnessed the culprit and caught him red-handed. The Bendix sometimes doesn't mesh with the ring gear and the clicking is the Bendix smacking the side of the gear. The gear teeth are beveled and should allow the teeth to mesh by a small amount of rotational play in the Bendix shaft before it starts to spin, but it just wasn't happening. My first step was to clean the Bendix gear with brake parts cleaner because it was pretty grimey. Then I greased it up. It performed marginally better. With the machine off I manually meshed the two gears together. This is all readily accessible with the cowling off the tractor. The gears seemed very tightly meshed together. The tooth of one gear nearly bottomed out in the other. Loosening the starter mounting bolts allowed me to move the starter just a little bit, just enough to give some clearance in the gears and completely resolve the problem. Of course this may not be the end of the story. Time and grime may have taken its toll on the mechanism and it may just be weakened or not turning freely enough to allow proper engagement. Time will tell. Maybe this is the same issues others are having, maybe not, but the first thing to figure out about the clicking is what kind of clicking it is.

Pete

 

[Cglaza]

There is an initial click but I dont think its the solenoid but rather something else that always clicks on (and still does) and clicks off 10-15 seconds after turning the key off. Suggestions ?

That would be your fuel shutoff solenoid. Completely normal for that clicking noise to be heard.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

 

[WhyNotBeFit]

Starting had been intermittent on my 2009 Gr2110 with 975 for more than a year. Sometimes it would start on the first turn of the key (after waiting 15 sec or so for the glow plugs to warm up if the engine was cold), and other times I would have to turn the key to the starter position 15 or more times. It was unpredictable, and becoming more difficult to get started. It was easy to check the starter via a jumper between the battery positive terminal and the starter solenoid. It started every touch of the jumper. I opened up the instrument panel and unplugged the 3 or 4 relays or whatever, cleaned the contacts with carburetor cleaner, let them dry and plugged them back in, and did the same thing with the ignition switch. Didn't make any difference. I decided to take a chance on it being the ignition switch, since it has moving parts. I bought one today, and put it in and it starts every time now. I wish I'd have done that a year ago.

 

[lugbolt]

it is a simple system for the most part

use a dvom to isolate where the issue lies, via drop test

if you don't know what a drop test is google it.

If you can't figure it out, may be better off paying someone else that can. Honestly diagnosing the click-click-click-click-start condition takes typically under 20 minutes (diag only) on the GR2100/2110. Actual repair time depends on the failed part location, accessibility, etc

 

[WhyNotBeFit]

I have the same problem. I've just been dealing with it for the last few years. Would like to know if anyone has found a solid fix for it though.

After fretting with this problem on my GR2110 for a long time, and buying a new battery, and tightening the various bolted ground and hot wire connections, none of which made any difference, it finally dawned on me what the problem might be. The fix was free and took less than an hour. First I verified that the starter solenoid and motor were OK by removing the wire to the solenoid (which is activated when the ignition switch is turned to start position) and touching a jumper from the battery positive terminal to the terminal on the solenoid. The starter worked every time, which means the solenoid and starter are OK. So since wires don't typically deteriorate, the problem seemed likely to be with the safety switches that have to be closed (i.e., make a connection) before the starter solenoid is activated. There is one which is closed when the brake pedal is fully applied, and there is one which is closed when the mower is not engaged. I located the switches (look what the brake pedal and the mower engage lever moves), pulled the connectors apart, blew them out with compressed air, rubbed the tabs gently with fine sandpaper (they didn't appear to be rusted, but the mower engage switch was very dirty), sprayed WD-40 in both halves of the connectors and blew that out. I reconnected the switch parts, making certain they were fully pushed together, and when I turned the key the GR started immediately, and has done so ever since. If the problem reoccurs, the first thing I will do is re-clean the connections. Wish I had thought of this two years ago.

 

[lmichael]

Look for my thread re this issue about adding a helper relay. I too tried tracking down all the wiring, safety switches and all that and nothing worked. The solenoid could not consistently get a full 12V. But by adding a simple relay that will actuate fine on as little as 8V issue solved

 

[WhyNotBeFit]

Look for my thread re this issue about adding a helper relay. I too tried tracking down all the wiring, safety switches and all that and nothing worked. The solenoid could not consistently get a full 12V. But by adding a simple relay that will actuate fine on as little as 8V issue solved

I didn't mention that I had tried a helper relay. It required 10V to keep it closed (not something that was not mentioned in the specs), and when the solenoid was activated, the voltage to the relay dropped below 10 and so it opened, and kept doing that same close/open thing as long as the key was in start position. The other thing I didn't mention was that I also replaced the ignition switch, which is another place with contacts that can be a source of increased resistance/reduced voltage. Considering that the original wiring and connections on the GR worked just fine, and that poor connections are the only things that will lower the voltage, there should be no necessity for the relay if the connections are in good shape. But that it worked for you is great.