Frame bolts. Is this normal?

Crash277

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Is it possible to upsize the bolts? Is it possible to install a bushing in the frame with the OD the size of the hole, the ID the size of the bole and the same thickness as the frame.
Later today I’m going to pull the backhoe and loader off to remove the weight. Then pull the bolts out to see if either of those solutions will work.
 

Crash277

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I have to drop this plate off to a friend of mine who is going to make me one with tie downs. These bolts are not a snug fit in the holes, same as those frame bolts. I tried to take a picture of how loose they fit but it doesn’t show the angle very will. I will measure them with a caliper later.
 

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lugbolt

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yup you're supposed to retorque them. In the book.

Or demand a new tractor and have the same problem again if you even get a new one.

Why do ya have to re-torque them? Because during manufacturing, they paint everything and I mean everything. Then the tractor gets assembled, using painted parts. Then tractor gets driven into a transporter after an inspection (and it's a pretty thorough inspection!!), transported to a warehouse, then to a dealer. Then it's sold. It's already assembled (BX TLB's are fully assembled at factory, minus a few minor things like unpackaging, pdi, etc). You take possession of it, you work it and during the time you're working it, the paint between the parts wears off and then the parts that are supposed to be clamped together become loose. Leave them loose and the attachment hardware breaks and the holes oblong. Pretty standard practice.

When a bolt is torqued, it is stretched. This acts as a spring to hold tension between the parts that are being attached with said bolt. The amount of stretch is little, measured in a few thousandths of an inch, or a few hundredths of a millimeter for the canucks and, well everyone else. The combined thickness of the paint on the painted parts that the bolts are holding together is much thicker than the amount of stretch on the fastener, thus when the paint compresses, chips, or wears off, the bolt(s) lose their springiness (clamp force) that holds the parts together, then stuff moves around-which is what you are seeing. Loader frames and backhoe frames take a huge load on them and their fasteners. If you check and retorque them at the first service per the manual (the manual that nobody bothers to read), you'll likely never ever have to touch them again. When I did dealer work, when I got a tractor in for first service (50 hr usually), that was on the list of things to "service"--tighten all the loader and backhoe bolts. I checked all bolts usually while fluids were draining. Those that say a 50 hour service is a total waste of money never had a good tech work on their stuff. Techs oftentimes find things that don't get documented on the repair order, thus the owner never knows about it--like loose loader bolts for instance. Hence, I personally bought my own laptop and loaded the dealer business system to it so I coudl document that stuff, which IMO was one of the things that made that dealer a great one (for the most part). Not trying to make myself look good, but it was one of those many litlte things that I did to help the customer. And to those that say techs are just grease monkeys? Shoe on the other foot....so why'd I leave? Hot shop, always pushed for time, boss too cheap to buy tools, kubota rep all over out butt about doing recalls that we didn't have tools to do, no raise in 7 years, I went in one day and said you know what I don't want to do this anymore...and left. Week later I had another job at another dealer, a/c shop, lot less work load, MUCH less stress, all the tools we need and boss buys tools if we need another, smaller, quieter, less dangerous, better pay, boss and I get along great....I mean, I had no choice but to take it!!
 
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marrmanu

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If I am looking at the correct parts diagram for the bx23s it shows that the the holes are elongated, so it is not a wear issue. But it does look as if they have moved up and down. So as mentioned, are they the correct sized bolts.
It also interesting to note that the diagram is only showing one bolt.
 

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leveraddict

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2017 BX23S 60" LP BoxBlade 54" mower 60" BackBlade EA 12" 1 bottom plow & Forks
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My frame bolts have looked like that since day one! If you look closely the hardware is way too small to have made those marks on the frame. Well on my BX anyway! My guess is it was something put there during the painting process then removed. Probably to help things from moving once the bolts were tightened! Nothing has moved....all is well!
 
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Henro

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May 24, 2019
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My frame bolts have looked like that since day one! If you look closely the hardware is way too small to have made those marks on the frame. Well on my BX anyway! My guess is it was something put there during the painting process then removed. Probably to help things from moving once the bolts were tightened! Nothing has moved....all is well!
You could be right Leveraddict!

I wonder if the frame area behind the second bolt shows the same pattern?

If not, that mark could be an artifact left over from a mount used during the painting process.

Perhaps the OP can take a second look and see if the area behind the second bolt shows the same thing...
 

Crash277

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BX23S
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You could be right Leveraddict!

I wonder if the frame area behind the second bolt shows the same pattern?

If not, that mark could be an artifact left over from a mount used during the painting process.

Perhaps the OP can take a second look and see if the area behind the second bolt shows the same thing...
not sure if Iwill have time today but I do plan on dropping the loader and the box blade off to remove the weight. Then popping the bolts out and seeing If I can at least make them lined up even on both sides. I will take some pictures after I remove the bolts.
 

GeoHorn

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Revisiting the original pics in post #1... those bolts are not painted the same color as the frame... leading me to wonder if they are not either aftermarket ...(loader installed after first-owner delivery?).... or replacements...perhaps SAE bolts not metric ...or reverse, etc.
 

Crash277

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Revisiting the original pics in post #1... those bolts are not painted the same color as the frame... leading me to wonder if they are not either aftermarket ...(loader installed after first-owner delivery?).... or replacements...perhaps SAE bolts not metric ...or reverse, etc.
the BX23S comes from the factory as a TLB, I bought it brand new. I’m not sure how it shows up in the shipping crates however, you got me thinking and I am gonna hop on YouTube and see if I can find a BX23S unboxing video.
 

Henro

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the BX23S comes from the factory as a TLB, I bought it brand new. I’m not sure how it shows up in the shipping crates however, you got me thinking and I am gonna hop on YouTube and see if I can find a BX23S unboxing video.
Let us know what you find. I can not imagine the TLB being crated as a full unit. Almost certainly comes separately to be assembled by the dealer. Only a guess though...
 

whitetiger

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My frame bolts have looked like that since day one! If you look closely the hardware is way too small to have made those marks on the frame. Well on my BX anyway! My guess is it was something put there during the painting process then removed. Probably to help things from moving once the bolts were tightened! Nothing has moved....all is well!
That is correct, there are stickers placed over the hole before it is painted, If you look at several new units you will find most have some unpainted area showing. A good setup person will touch it up before delivery, but most just Text, check the boxes, and Text some more.
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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One other option... It's that way as it's aligned and leveled when assembled.
Pulling it apart and reassembling it to align it to the paint marks could very well leave you with a crookedly attached loader! ;)
 
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Fliterisk

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Pulled the front tire off again. (See my other thread about fixing a flat).

noticed the frame bolts aren’t lined up with the factory paint. Should I loosen these off and try to line them back up andre torque them?

right side


View attachment 56734
Left side

View attachment 56735
I know this is an old thread but if you are still around can I ask what the outcome was? My BX23S is only a week old with 27 hours and I noticed the same thing....exactly as in your photo
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I know this is an old thread but if you are still around can I ask what the outcome was? My BX23S is only a week old with 27 hours and I noticed the same thing....exactly as in your photo
Check that the bolts are tight, Spray some paint on the exposed metal, and move on.
 
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Joisey

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yup you're supposed to retorque them. In the book.

Or demand a new tractor and have the same problem again if you even get a new one.

Why do ya have to re-torque them? Because during manufacturing, they paint everything and I mean everything. Then the tractor gets assembled, using painted parts. Then tractor gets driven into a transporter after an inspection (and it's a pretty thorough inspection!!), transported to a warehouse, then to a dealer. Then it's sold. It's already assembled (BX TLB's are fully assembled at factory, minus a few minor things like unpackaging, pdi, etc). You take possession of it, you work it and during the time you're working it, the paint between the parts wears off and then the parts that are supposed to be clamped together become loose. Leave them loose and the attachment hardware breaks and the holes oblong. Pretty standard practice.

When a bolt is torqued, it is stretched. This acts as a spring to hold tension between the parts that are being attached with said bolt. The amount of stretch is little, measured in a few thousandths of an inch, or a few hundredths of a millimeter for the canucks and, well everyone else. The combined thickness of the paint on the painted parts that the bolts are holding together is much thicker than the amount of stretch on the fastener, thus when the paint compresses, chips, or wears off, the bolt(s) lose their springiness (clamp force) that holds the parts together, then stuff moves around-which is what you are seeing. Loader frames and backhoe frames take a huge load on them and their fasteners. If you check and retorque them at the first service per the manual (the manual that nobody bothers to read), you'll likely never ever have to touch them again. When I did dealer work, when I got a tractor in for first service (50 hr usually), that was on the list of things to "service"--tighten all the loader and backhoe bolts. I checked all bolts usually while fluids were draining. Those that say a 50 hour service is a total waste of money never had a good tech work on their stuff. Techs oftentimes find things that don't get documented on the repair order, thus the owner never knows about it--like loose loader bolts for instance. Hence, I personally bought my own laptop and loaded the dealer business system to it so I coudl document that stuff, which IMO was one of the things that made that dealer a great one (for the most part). Not trying to make myself look good, but it was one of those many litlte things that I did to help the customer. And to those that say techs are just grease monkeys? Shoe on the other foot....so why'd I leave? Hot shop, always pushed for time, boss too cheap to buy tools, kubota rep all over out butt about doing recalls that we didn't have tools to do, no raise in 7 years, I went in one day and said you know what I don't want to do this anymore...and left. Week later I had another job at another dealer, a/c shop, lot less work load, MUCH less stress, all the tools we need and boss buys tools if we need another, smaller, quieter, less dangerous, better pay, boss and I get along great....I mean, I had no choice but to take it!!
The best mechanics usually find themselves in positions such as yours. I'm happy that you found a good shop to work in.
 

GeoHorn

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One other option... It's that way as it's aligned and leveled when assembled.
Pulling it apart and reassembling it to align it to the paint marks could very well leave you with a crookedly attached loader! ;)
Doesn’t also indicate the bolts are smaller (not the correct diameter) than the hole…and therefore not the correct fasteners>..??
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Doesn’t also indicate the bolts are smaller (not the correct diameter) than the hole…and therefore not the correct fasteners>..??
No not at all, the holes are not only holes they are also slots, and it's required for there to be tolerance for alinement adjustment.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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So to continue, are these bolts in question responsible, or in any relation, to the FEL being “level” from side to side?
Yes and no, or I should say some of them are and some of them are done that way for that purpose.
The main reason is for the ease of assembly as the parts that mate together are not all exactly the same, thus requiring them to be slotted or have oversized holes.