Forced to purchase counterweight (AU)

Rotor

New member
Oct 13, 2021
6
0
1
Australia
Hi there, I'm new here. I'm looking to place an order for a B series from an Australian dealer with a FEL and backhoe. He has specified a counterweight on the order, saying that it is a legal requirement.

Apparently Work Cover (the government org that deals with work safety law here) requires this. I can't find any information about this.

He also said that Kubota includes the counterweight with the FEL so there is no way to separate the two.

As I am ordering a backhoe with the tractor, I feel the counterweight is unnecessary, both practically and lawfully.

Can anyone comment on this? Would appreciate your input.
 

NCL4701

Well-known member

Equipment
L4701, WC68 chipper, grapple, BB1572 box scrape, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen
Apr 27, 2020
733
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Central Piedmont, NC
Here in the US we still allow freedom for the stupid and uninformed to kill themselves in a wide variety of ways, although the loopholes are closing with seatbelt laws for cars, mandatory training for concealed carry, etc. but counterweight for loaders is only required by the laws of physics, not the legislature.

Don’t know why you’d need counterweight unless you remove the backhoe other than to make some bureaucrat feel good about protecting the sheep. We have stupid laws here as well. Most famously, it is still illegal to plow a cotton field with an elephant in NC. I feel much safer with that one on the books.

Sorry, I’m aware that was useless.
 
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PaulR

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BX 23S -- 60 hours seat time so far
Aug 3, 2020
343
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Hadley, MA
I can say my backhoe works great as a counterweight.
I'm not touching the AU legal stuff with a 10 foot errr meter pole.
I watch conservative news here in the US, the things I'm hearing and seeing on the news regarding AU
are pretty terrible, or maybe this is just in the cities??
 

Elliott in GA

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LX 2610SU w/535,LP RCR1860,LP FDR1660,LP SGC0554, LP FSP500, DD BBX60005
Mar 10, 2021
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North Georgia
Question - can you substitute a weighty and useful implement, like a box blade, for the weight box (which serves no other purpose)?
 

Tire Biter

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B 2601 434 loader MMM, bunch of tractor stuff . Ford 4600
Jul 10, 2012
209
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S.E. TN
Well if you have a backhoe, you won’t need it unless when the hoe isn’t attached. Maybe you could sell it? Does it just mount on the 3pt hitch?
the same dark forces that are ruining your country are at work here now.
 

Rotor

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Oct 13, 2021
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Australia
Yes, it is a 3-point hitch attachment. PaulR - yes, Australians are typically very compliant and unquestioning.

The dealer referred me to a Work Cover document (linked below), however as far as I can see it does not say a counterweight must be provided - "Counterweights or ballasting may be required to improve stability. "

https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/front_end_loaders_on_tractors.pdf

He's standing by the fact that Kubota deliver the backhoe kit with the counterweight, so there is no choice. However, I've found the counterweight is provided by a third party (Burder), not Kubota.

Can anyone describe a scenario where it makes sense to remove the backhoe to replace it with a counterweight? Otherwise, yes, I think I would have to try to sell it.

I can understand if you're only ordering the FEL, but when a backhoe is on the order too, why add a very expensive ($760) paper weight?
 

Fordtech86

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L3200
Aug 7, 2018
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Yes, it is a 3-point hitch attachment. PaulR - yes, Australians are typically very compliant and unquestioning.

The dealer referred me to a Work Cover document (linked below), however as far as I can see it does not say a counterweight must be provided - "Counterweights or ballasting may be required to improve stability. "

https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/front_end_loaders_on_tractors.pdf

He's standing by the fact that Kubota deliver the backhoe kit with the counterweight, so there is no choice. However, I've found the counterweight is provided by a third party (Burder), not Kubota.

Can anyone describe a scenario where it makes sense to remove the backhoe to replace it with a counterweight? Otherwise, yes, I think I would have to try to sell it.

I can understand if you're only ordering the FEL, but when a backhoe is on the order too, why add a very expensive ($760) paper weight?
This is far from legal advice, I have no idea about laws over there.

I scrolled through your link,

4D6F8EE5-94D5-4D2D-8141-0775869757D8.jpeg

480DCDE8-4B9F-4E6E-BE1D-8441ADD2CBF6.png

4AAEA8CE-EA13-4960-8639-88CF775C0674.png

This site they linked you to sounds like its our OSHA. Appears to apply to employers providing a tractor in a work place. Should not apply to a non-commercial sale.
 

armylifer

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BX1860, FEL, RCK54P MMM, BB1548 Box Scraper, Quick Hitch, Piranha Bar, BX6315
Mar 26, 2013
1,586
370
83
Thurston County, WA
Are you able to cancel your order and get your money back? That is what I would do. It may not be convenient or even practical for your situation but my thinking is that you would be sending a message to your dealer to let him know how much you do not want that ballast box added to your order. He may even find that reading the Work Cover order again helps him understand that he misinterpreted it the first time.

Also, it may help to go to the dealership manager to see if you can get him to agree with you that you do not need the ballast box.

The only other thing that I can suggest is to contact Work Cover and get an official determination from them whether a ballast box is legally required for this specific order.

Good luck to you!
 

Rotor

New member
Oct 13, 2021
6
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1
Australia
Thanks armylifter. I haven't ordered yet. I contacted another dealer who said they wouldn't sell the counterweight if the backhoe was always going to be attached, which sounds more reasonable. This other dealer is a lot further away though.

I followed your suggestion and called Work Cover - they were vague about it and passed me onto another government agency. They said that if someone came to my property and took the backhoe off and did not then have the counterweight available to use, and injured themselves, then there would be a liability concern.

So effectively I'm paying $760 in case a thief decides to come do some earthmoving on their way out - after having removed the backhoe, because they wouldn't want to steal that.
 

armylifer

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BX1860, FEL, RCK54P MMM, BB1548 Box Scraper, Quick Hitch, Piranha Bar, BX6315
Mar 26, 2013
1,586
370
83
Thurston County, WA
Thanks armylifter. I haven't ordered yet. I contacted another dealer who said they wouldn't sell the counterweight if the backhoe was always going to be attached, which sounds more reasonable. This other dealer is a lot further away though.

I followed your suggestion and called Work Cover - they were vague about it and passed me onto another government agency. They said that if someone came to my property and took the backhoe off and did not then have the counterweight available to use, and injured themselves, then there would be a liability concern.

So effectively I'm paying $760 in case a thief decides to come do some earthmoving on their way out - after having removed the backhoe, because they wouldn't want to steal that.
Then I have one more suggestion for you. Tell the dealer that you plan to use a counter weight of your own and that you don't want to buy theirs because you already have counter weights. You could mention that you have barbell weights or a box blade, like what I have on mine. Pictures attached.

20200404_125901.jpg
Counter Weights.JPG
DSCN0337.JPG
 
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
2,777
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Greensville,Ontario,Canada
I'd go to the 2nd dealer.as long as it's cheaper than the $760 paperweight. While everyone will agree having the ballast with the FEL is 'good and proper', I seriously doubt the dealer will come to your place an ensure you HAVE the ballast on whenever the BH is off. It's too bad there's very little common sense anymore. The fact the 'guv' is vague and can't find LAW to support the 'must have ballast' indicates whatever they wrote is a suggestion, NOT in fact, a law.
It'd be interesting to visit the local poilice and ask what LAW you would be breaking , and the associated fines/prison term. After they stop laughing, they'll probably put you in the 'looney bin' for asking.
I understand the dealer wanting to keep you safe, and probably misread whatever had the information. At the very least, he needs to SHOW you that document.
Hmm..is this the OWNER of the operation or just a salesman ? Again, be nice but firm
 

Henro

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B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
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North of Pittsburgh PA
Then I have one more suggestion for you. Tell the dealer that you plan to use a counter weight of your own and that you don't want to buy theirs because you already have counter weights. You could mention that you have barbell weights or a box blade, like what I have on mine. Pictures attached.
I would add one more suggestion. Tell the dealer that you will buy from the the other dealer, who is not requiring that you purchase the counterweight, since you are keeping the backhoe on all the time. Great incentive for the dealer to become reasonable.

Then be sure to buy a box blade or something else to use as a counter weight when the backhoe is off the tractor, and load the rear tires as well...
 

Nicfin36

Well-known member

Equipment
L2501 HST, BH77 Backhoe, SSQA Loader ZD1011 Mower
Jun 19, 2019
841
277
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Decatur, AL
I wouldn't mind a dedicated counterweight when I do not have my backhoe attached. I have actually thought about making one in the future. My backhoe is the best counterweight I have. Even with my 600 lb tiller, I have raised the rear off the ground while using my grapple. Having a separate counterweight would allow me to use that instead of removing my 3 Point arms and going through all the trouble of attaching my backhoe.

But, I would not like being forced to pay for one, unless I got a good deal on it.
 

fried1765

Active member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
130
68
28
Eastham, Ma
I would add one more suggestion. Tell the dealer that you will buy from the the other dealer, who is not requiring that you purchase the counterweight, since you are keeping the backhoe on all the time. Great incentive for the dealer to become reasonable.

Then be sure to buy a box blade or something else to use as a counter weight when the backhoe is off the tractor, and load the rear tires as well...
Loading the rear tires is excellent for improving traction, but is very minimally effective as ballast.
 

fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
130
68
28
Eastham, Ma
Not as effective as the same weight hanging off the 3PH, but claiming loaded rear tires are minimally effective as ballast is a stretch.
Ok, lets change "minimally effectuive" to.........has limited effect.
 

Tim Horton

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"PEPE" RTV400
Mar 22, 2018
182
13
18
British Columbia Canada
My first thought was, can you find another dealer.... ??
<<< >>>
This other dealer is a lot further away though.
<<< >>>
This may not be a big issue in the long run... If the close dealer is so hard set on selling the ballast box, they may be as hard set to deal with on other issues if, or when you need service on something one day..

Good luck..