Egr delete

Bmyers

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The answer that you will receive is that no one has done that on this forum. That act is illegal at the Federal level and encouraging and/or admitting to an illegal act on the forum would be against the forum policy and not the smartest move one could make.
 

Bmyers

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The Law
Section 203(a)(3) of the CAA makes it unlawful for: “(A) any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under [Title II ofthe CAA] prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and distribution to the ultimate purchaser;
or (B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the region or segment is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use.” 15.
EPA may assess a civil penalty of up to $3,750 for each applicable CAA violation that occurred between December 6, 2013, and November 2, 2015, and up to $4,527 for each applicable CAA violation that occurred after November 2, 2015 and assessed on or after January 15, 2017 in accordance with Section 205(a) of the CAA, 42 U.S.C. § 7524(a), and 40 C.F.R. Part 19.

What the EPA has started doing is going after the companies that have made/sold the kits and fining them, butting some of them out of business. In addition they are requiring them to turn over customer list. Currently, the EPA has only targeted the manufactures/sellers of such kits.

EPA launches crackdown on emissions defeat device makers | Hemmings
 

lugbolt

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it has been done

it is not legal

one I know of, was done out of the USA so they had to haul it a few thousand miles and have it done, paid the guy a grand or 3 (or whatever it was?), haul it back home then try to find someone to work on it once it had other problems because a USA kubota dealer cannot touch it per agreement. Or they're not supposed to anyway. I go by the rules, I dunno about yall.

Time its all said and done, potentially thousands of dollars later, I'd sure have considered trading to something different and more reliable. Might be cheaper.

yes the b3350 has had it's issues. My question is, has anyone tried a class action? Anyone attempted any legal actions? Seems to me that if the resale value/trade in value is down because of the many reported issues, there could be some legalities to deal with? I dunno?
 
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NCL4701

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Seems like the only way to legally “delete” DPF is delete your whole tractor (sell it), get a pre-emission tractor, and keep fixing and rebuilding as needed to keep it running. That may not be ideal but it’s a lot simpler mechanically and legally than trying to delete the DPF on a tractor with OEM DPF. You may take a bath financially depending on the equipment involved but your looking at either an impossibility or a hard hit financially (most likely a practical impossibility) if you try to delete an emissions diesel.
 
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Mark_BX25D

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It's done all the time by diesel pickup enthusiasts, so it's probably not difficult for someone who knows diesels, but messing with the EPA is not a smart move.
 

SDT

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it has been done

it is not legal

one I know of, was done out of the USA so they had to haul it a few thousand miles and have it done, paid the guy a grand or 3 (or whatever it was?), haul it back home then try to find someone to work on it once it had other problems because a USA kubota dealer cannot touch it per agreement. Or they're not supposed to anyway. I go by the rules, I dunno about yall.

Time its all said and done, potentially thousands of dollars later, I'd sure have considered trading to something different and more reliable. Might be cheaper.

yes the b3350 has had it's issues. My question is, has anyone tried a class action? Anyone attempted any legal actions? Seems to me that if the resale value/trade in value is down because of the many reported issues, there could be some legalities to deal with? I dunno?
The class action issue comes up just about every time that the B3350 is discussed, and I have explained why this will not happen multiple times.

Individuals do not create class action law suits. Rather, lawyers do, and there is simply not enough money involved here to make it worth the while of tort attorneys.

Do not expect this to happen in this case.

SDT, who is also an attorney
 
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Motion

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One big reason pre emission tractors sell for more. In my opinion it's why owners don't want to trade up.
 
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NCL4701

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It's done all the time by diesel pickup enthusiasts, so it's probably not difficult for someone who knows diesels, but messing with the EPA is not a smart move.
Seems like the biggest issue with say, a Kubota tractor engine, is it requires messing with (i.e. “tuning”) the ECU so it doesn’t freak when the DPF is sitting in the scrap pile where they can’t communicate. Tuning software for the diesel pickups isn’t exactly difficult to source. Maybe software for tuning the ECU on a Kubota or other tractor engine isn’t difficult to source either but for dummies like me, I wouldn’t know where to start trying to source the software to make the DPFless ECU happy. If the 3350 is all mechanical such that it doesn’t have an ECU, would likely be a much less daunting project.
 
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SDT

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Seems like the biggest issue with say, a Kubota tractor engine, is it requires messing with (i.e. “tuning”) the ECU so it doesn’t freak when the DPF is sitting in the scrap pile where they can’t communicate. Tuning software for the diesel pickups isn’t exactly difficult to source. Maybe software for tuning the ECU on a Kubota or other tractor engine isn’t difficult to source either but for dummies like me, I wouldn’t know where to start trying to source the software to make the DPFless ECU happy. If the 3350 is all mechanical such that it doesn’t have an ECU, would likely be a much less daunting project.
The B3350 has mechanical injection but it does have an ECM.

SDT
 

802Driver

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It would be supply and demand. If there were trouble with break-downs across the board, then the demand for after-market tuners may occur. But you don't hear of many tractors having operating issues with the exception of the B3350 with the DPF intact. I doubt it would cost "thousands" to create a tune to delete the DPF and make it run well (minus the pollution). Alarms are still going off since items are un-plugged, a software re-write simply cancels them out and maybe fine tunes air/fuel mixture. Not a lot going on a tractor. My point, is it legal? No. Is it possible to delete? Yes, anything is possible.

Until I have a reason to need anything more than 26hp, I'll stay with DPF'less tractor for simplicity and reliability.
 

NCL4701

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It would be supply and demand. If there were trouble with break-downs across the board, then the demand for after-market tuners may occur. But you don't hear of many tractors having operating issues with the exception of the B3350 with the DPF intact. I doubt it would cost "thousands" to create a tune to delete the DPF and make it run well (minus the pollution). Alarms are still going off since items are un-plugged, a software re-write simply cancels them out and maybe fine tunes air/fuel mixture. Not a lot going on a tractor. My point, is it legal? No. Is it possible to delete? Yes, anything is possible.

Until I have a reason to need anything more than 26hp, I'll stay with DPF'less tractor for simplicity and reliability.
Agree; specifically with the supply and demand statement. B3350 has problems so there would be some demand from B3350 owners but that’s a small subset of tractor owners. Most models, the DPF regen is an occasional annoyance if timing of regen is inconvenient which is a lot less problematic than breaking Federal law and having a tractor that no dealer will touch, potentially decreasing value by narrowing resale market by reducing potential buyer pool to like minded individuals who don’t mind ignoring the law and never having the option to involve a dealer in maintenance or repair. Cost/benefit and risk/reward analysis just doesn’t make sense for the vast majority of Tier 4 owners so the demand for delete isn’t there and neither is supply.

If I owned a 3350 that gave continual problems, I’d be pretty ill about the situation. Thankfully, I’m not in that group.
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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This thread comes up over and over again.
Everyone remain civil and it will stay up.

This is a rather hot bed of a conversation, because there is no legal remedy to the issue.
If you have one, you either need to find a work around or your stuck paying stupid amounts of money to a dealer to try and "fix it" and it only will eventually rear it's head again and sometimes in another fashion.

If I remember right SDT ( forgive me if it wasn't you) has done the most to keep his running, had to have the top end rebuilt? due to bad / leaking valve guides / seals?

If I owned one of these problem children, I would be employing the work around to make it run properly and get my moneys worth out of it, but I also would be advertising the fact that I did it.
 
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GeoHorn

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The Law


EPA may assess a civil penalty of up to $3,750 for each applicable CAA violation that occurred between December 6, 2013, and November 2, 2015, and up to $4,527 for each applicable CAA violation that occurred after November 2, 2015 and assessed on or after January 15, 2017 in accordance with Section 205(a) of the CAA, 42 U.S.C. § 7524(a), and 40 C.F.R. Part 19.

What the EPA has started doing is going after the companies that have made/sold the kits and fining them, butting some of them out of business. In addition they are requiring them to turn over customer list. Currently, the EPA has only targeted the manufactures/sellers of such kits.

EPA launches crackdown on emissions defeat device makers | Hemmings
Where does that law apply..??( Canada?) ...and..... WHERE and HOW does it define “motor vehicle”...?? I would not ordinarily consider a tractor or stationary engine a “motor vehicle”.
 

Bmyers

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Where does that law apply..??( Canada?) ...and..... WHERE and HOW does it define “motor vehicle”...?? I would not ordinarily consider a tractor or stationary engine a “motor vehicle”.
It is a US law (Clean Air Act) it would not apply in Canada. It doesn't mean that Canada hasn't adopted a similar law, but EPA has been charged with enforcing US environmental laws.

Emission Standards for Farm Equipment - Engines
Additional Compliance Information
Stationary internal combustion engines use pistons that alternatively move back and forth to convert pressure into rotating motion. Many types of stationary engines exist and are found on farms, including diesel engines, spark ignited engines, and reciprocating internal combustion engines. Air quality requirements vary for stationary engines, depending on whether the engine is new or existing, where the engine is located, and what type of ignition system is used.
A video for farmers about the air quality requirements for stationary engines is available from EPA's Air Pollution Training Institute. To navigate to the video, choose "LEARN," then "Stationary Sources," and then "Launch Course."

Improvements for Heavy-Duty Engine and Vehicle Test Procedures - Final Rulemaking | Regulations for Emissions from Vehicles and Engines | US EPA

Regulations for Emissions from Nonroad Vehicles and Engines | Regulations for Emissions from Vehicles and Engines | US EPA

Regulations for Emissions from Heavy Equipment with Compression-Ignition (Diesel) Engines | Regulations for Emissions from Vehicles and Engines | US EPA
 
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GeoHorn

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I don’t need a bunch of links to a myriad of laws that don’t address the question “What constitutes a motor vehicle”... I only want to know if that law previously quoted defined the term.

Also, I notice that the law states “...prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and distribution to the ultimate purchaser;”

Directly copied from the EPA Federal Register:

Does This Action Apply To Me?
This action may affect you if you produce or import new diesel engines which are intended for use in nonroad vehicles or equipment, such as agricultural and construction equipment, or if you produce or import such nonroad vehicles or equipment. It may also affect you if you convert nonroad vehicles or equipment, or the engines used in them, to use alternative fuels. It may also affect you if you produce, import, distribute, or sell nonroad diesel fuel....”


I am the Owner. I am the “ultimate purchaser”. It is mine and I am not selling it for anyone else, and I am not working on anyone elses. I use it only on my own property. I will do whatever it takes to make MY equipment do it’s job for ME.
 
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