Do you know what you're buying

[Bulldog]

Type of hyd fluid is a regular subject here and gets heated at times.
What can I use?
Why buy Kubota?
What's wrong with TSC (and other) cheap fluid?


In the reading room tonight and ran across a front page article in the Ga market bulletin about 303 hyd fluid. I'll hit a few high lights.

Feb 12 Ga Agriculture's fuel and measures division issued a state wide stop sale order for hyd fluid meeting JD303 specs. John Deere developed the JD303 57 years ago. This now illegal formulation has been obsolete for 43 years and was discontinued in 1974, there have been no industry-wide standards for 303 fluid.

Current 303 products are affordable fluid but cannot be tested for compliance with any known specification and have potential to cause performance issues and costly damage to farm equipment.

In Jan. GDA fuel lab conducted test on 11 303 product sold in Ga. 7 did not meet modern specs.

"The consumer needs to know if they want to buy cheaper products that's their choice but it's not going to have the additives in it that will keep the equipment running up to original manufacture specifications."

I want to say this is not my rant. Again, it's on the front page of the Ga market bulletin. Most already know what my opinion is on cheap fluid.

This picture is samples of new 303 fluid that was tested. Funny that if they are all equal the color tells a different story.

 

[BAP]

Type of hyd fluid is a regular subject here and gets heated at times.
What can I use?
Why buy Kubota?
What's wrong with TSC (and other) cheap fluid?


In the reading room tonight and ran across a front page article in the Ga market bulletin about 303 hyd fluid. I'll hit a few high lights.

Feb 12 Ga Agriculture's fuel and measures division issued a state wide stop sale order for hyd fluid meeting JD303 specs. John Deere developed the JD303 57 years ago. This now illegal formulation has been obsolete for 43 years and was discontinued in 1974, there have been no industry-wide standards for 303 fluid.

Current 303 products are affordable fluid but cannot be tested for compliance with any known specification and have potential to cause performance issues and costly damage to farm equipment.

In Jan. GDA fuel lab conducted test on 11 303 product sold in Ga. 7 did not meet modern specs.

"The consumer needs to know if they want to buy cheaper products that's their choice but it's not going to have the additives in it that will keep the equipment running up to original manufacture specifications."

I want to say this is not my rant. Again, it's on the front page of the Ga market bulletin. Most already know what my opinion is on cheap fluid.

This picture is samples of new 303 fluid that was tested. Funny that if they are all equal the color tells a different story.

Why is it “Illegal” to sell 303 standards oil? What about it makes it bad? Isn’t it up to the consumer to determine what oil they need? What about use in old tractors? Sounds like government overreach to me. Sounds like there may be too many consumers in GA that need someone to hold their hands when they go shopping.

 

[skeets]

Perhaps the manufacturing of 303 under the original configuration has components that are now considered dangerous by the EPA, just like lead in gasoline did it work yes was it toxic ues it is. Old cars like early 60's and before dont do well on unleaded gas if they are still OEM so thats why there is an additive for these motors

 

[85Hokie]

Bulldog - excellent post!!!
we need some of those "thumbs up" for posts like this!

OIL aint oil.....never was - never will be!

 

[Bulldog]

Why is it “Illegal” to sell 303 standards oil? What about it makes it bad? Isn’t it up to the consumer to determine what oil they need? What about use in old tractors? Sounds like government overreach to me. Sounds like there may be too many consumers in GA that need someone to hold their hands when they go shopping.

Because the original 303 fluid was formulated with sperm whale brain fluid which is against the law now.

It's bad because it no longer meets the specs it was originally formulated to and according to the article hasn't been a industry standard since 1974. Another words they could throw in whatever they wanted and call it 303 because it couldn't be tested.

You can buy whatever you want. If you prefer a fluid that doesn't meet the specs that's your choice to use it. Just don't complain when it fails. 7 out of 11 tested didn't meet specs.

The government isn't overreaching this time. They are making the oil company own up to not meeting the standards. It has forced them to make consumers aware that their product doesn't meet the standards and then it's your choice to purchase it or not. It's not just Ga either. Missouri stopped the sale of 303 in Nov, last year.

On the flip side now that make you liable because you used fluid that doesn't meet specs. As far as old tractors go the fluid hasn't met the specs since 1974.

Again, I'm not starting a war. I'm simply passing along info that can potentially cause harm to our orange babies. I don't use cheap fluid so this doesn't affect me but I read a lot where people say it's just as good. Now it's decision time.

Pay now or pay later.

I'll pay more for premium fluid that I know works instead of crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

 

[hodge]

Thanks for finding this, and sharing it. It isn't about telling the consumer what to do; it's about education, so that the consumer knows what they are getting, good or bad.

 

[twomany]

When is the last time any of us have experience a fluid spec related equipment failure?

Sure, premium fluids can allow longer service life between refresh, but ....

I've never experience a fluid related failure that didn't have improper maintenance at it's core.

Today's fluids are just that good, regardless of price.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

When is the last time any of us have experience a fluid spec related equipment failure?

Sure, premium fluids can allow longer service life between refresh, but ....

I've never experience a fluid related failure that didn't have improper maintenance at it's core.

Today's fluids are just that good, regardless of price.

Three pieces of equipment in last three years, and funny enough two of them were because of 303 hydraulic fluid.
Let's not to mention the others that put anything from gasoline in the oil gasoline in the diesel, ATF in the oil, ATF in the fuel tank, and motor oil in the fuel tank and hydraulic fluid in the fuel tank.

The 303 and universal fluid is junk, I've see 2 different jugs of the same brand look and act completely different, used it for slash burn fuel!

And no not all fluid is good regardless of price, the repairs on the 2 units with 303 in them, cost the owners over 10K to repair the damage and yes it was the fluid the caused the issues.
The other owner with the equally wrong but different fluid got lucky and the fluid just gummed up the system and got way better on a change of filters and fluid, while we won't know on long term damage, that only time will tell.

 

[Bulldog]

When is the last time any of us have experience a fluid spec related equipment failure?


Sure, premium fluids can allow longer service life between refresh, but ....

I've never experience a fluid related failure that didn't have improper maintenance at it's core.



Today's fluids are just that good, regardless of price.

It may not be a complete failure, it can be as simple as a flow related performance issue.


Maybe you've just been lucky, 4 out of the 11 fluids tested did meet the current J20C specification. None of them meet the old JD303 specs because it's been obsolete since 1974.

According to the testing this is false. 7 out of the 11 tested failed to meet the current specification. Bottom line, you may or may not even get what you pay for. This is a crap shoot I'm not willing to chance.


Wolfman, you brought up a gummed up system.

That was also mentioned in the article. Some fluid tested were to high viscosity which led to internal build up and residue causing sluggish performance and overheating.
Other performance qualities such as oxidation stability, anti-wear and corrosion resistance were mentioned.

Data showed a substantial variation in the tested samples viscosity at 40 degrees Celsius. Some were low which cause leaks and some were high which caused flow issues and buildup.

 

[twomany]

Some fluids meet many specifications:

example:
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/TRACTOR TRANSMISSION & HYDRAULIC OIL.pdf

It is important to read the lable.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Some fluids meet many specifications:

example:
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/TRACTOR TRANSMISSION & HYDRAULIC OIL.pdf

It is important to read the lable.

When have you ever seen PENRITE OIL in the USA, Or CA?

 

[Bulldog]

I like the SAE grade, 10w30/75w80

 

[twomany]

I like the SAE grade, 10w30/75w80

Much the same.

This is from the Amsoil page.
"Gear oil differs from motor oil. While many motorists may assume SAE 90 gear oil is thicker than SAE 40 or 50 motor oil, they are actually the same viscosity; the difference is in the additives.".

It's important to know what you are buying. ;-)

 

[Bulldog]

Where is it on the Amsoil page. I've never seen anything like that before.

 

[whitetiger]

Where is it on the Amsoil page. I've never seen anything like that before.

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/auto-and-light-truck/articles/dont-forget-the-gear-oil/

 

[Driver57]

Bulldog - excellent post!!!
we need some of those "thumbs up" for posts like this!

OIL aint oil.....never was - never will be!

Ditto!

I can sometimes be a bit on the thrifty side when it comes to these kind of items.

Next weekend I will be doing a complete fluid change on my new to me B7200 HST. I will go to the local Kubota dealer and use their recommended motor oil, transmission/hydraulic fluid and gear oil.

 

[Bulldog]

Thanks whitetiger. I'll give you credit for the learn something new today.

 

[twomany]

Thanks whitetiger. I'll give you credit for the learn something new today.

The link is more significant than the quote?

You know google would have found the link for you. Just enter the text in the search bar.

Learning something every day is good for one's well being. ;-)

 

[Bulldog]

Learning something every day is good for one's well being. ;-)

My dad always told me if you don't learn something every day you weren't paying attention.