Confirm My Hydraulic Analsis Please

TheOldHokie

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windyridgefarm.us
Well yeah it is the issue. You got fluid going somewhere and you want it to stay in your cylinder to hold your blade down. A check valve wont give you pressure relief protection either.

You could save yourself a bunch of money just get a couple pairs of vice grips and crimp both hydro lines going to your blade cylinder every time you want your blade to stay down.
Would you expect port reliefs on the blade cylinders?? Vice grips arent going to be any different in that regard. Not to mention pinching hydraulic hoses is not good for their well being.

Dan
 

motionclone

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Would you expect port reliefs on the blade cylinders?? Vice grips arent going to be any different in that regard. Not to mention pinching hydraulic hoses is not good for their well being.

Dan
There are relief valves on everything either sharing a main or individual ones on the circuits. Even my old backhoe attachment had reliefs on everything. Henros idea of adding a check valve bypasses that safety. Yeah the vice grip idea was a joke and would damage the hoses but a check valve will blow them anyway so whats the big deal? Also without solving the internal leak problem, extra heat is being generated.


Between digging close and moving rocks ive accidently grabbed the bottom of my blade a few times, if not for port reliefs i would have blown a hose or bent the cylinder.
 

Henro

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There are relief valves on everything either sharing a main or individual ones on the circuits. Even my old backhoe attachment had reliefs on everything. Henros idea of adding a check valve bypasses that safety.
The cost will likely be less than $150. And you are missing the point related to the time savings and cost involved in trying to repair the issue back to factory specs. That is significant, even assuming I could do it.

It is just a stabilizing blade. On a small mini excavator.

Anyway, what could a pressure relief valve protect in this case? The cylinder or whatever? The check valves will not prevent damage to the cylinder, nothing else. I can live with that. But do not think your concern is a practical concern...

Edit: But I do appreciate your input. Thanks for that.
 

motionclone

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The cost will likely be less than $150. And you are missing the point related to the time savings and cost involved in trying to repair the issue back to factory specs. That is significant, even assuming I could do it.

It is just a stabilizing blade. On a small mini excavator.

Anyway, what could a pressure relief valve protect in this case? The cylinder or whatever? The check valves will not prevent damage to the cylinder, nothing else. I can live with that. But do not think your concern is a practical concern...

Edit: But I do appreciate your input. Thanks for that.
Sounds like you already have all the answers Henro but for those future readers with a mini ex and a blade issue I would reccomend reading what others have encountered with this same issue and excavator hydraulic systems in general, figure out the problem before modifying the system. Could be dangerous, could be costly.
 

Henro

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Your swivel joint could leak internally. lift the machine with the boom and blade so the tracks are off the ground. operate the tracks both ways, does the blade go down at all with track input? Or leave tracks on the ground and lift with just the blade, swivel the house, does the blade drop with the house swung in a specific direction? All indicators of swivel seals leaking by. I rebuilt mine, its fairly cheap to do but its like heart surgery.
I have pretty much reached the conclusion that the rotary joint is very likely the cause. The reason being that there is a change valve that allows the dozer control valve to work the track width cylinder OR the blade cylinder. Problem is nearly exactly the same with the change valve in either position.
 

motionclone

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I have pretty much reached the conclusion that the rotary joint is very likely the cause. The reason being that there is a change valve that allows the dozer control valve to work the track width cylinder OR the blade cylinder. Problem is nearly exactly the same with the change valve in either position.
rebuilding it is easy and cheap, just a bunch of seals. The issue is its in the bowels of the machine and lots of hoses going in and out so messy to do.
 

Henro

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rebuilding it is easy and cheap, just a bunch of seals. The issue is its in the bowels of the machine and lots of hoses going in and out so messy to do.
I understand. Unfortunately for reasons including lack of energy, and lack of a suitable place to do it, plus other things that are more important, I can't attempt that kind of repair...tough sometimes when a couple gets old...was going to say LOL but I don't think that is the case for us anymore...insert frown here...

So I will take the short cut solution I guess. It should solve my issue, rather simply. Hopefully...
 

dvcochran

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There are several other sources of internal leaks besides the valve and the cylinder seals that are specific to an excavator like the swivel joint. Im betting that individual circuits on his excavators valve body have pressure relief valves too that could be hung open slightly and leaking by.
True. But those things are much harder to diagnose versus disconnecting a hose and looking for fluid flow.
 

dvcochran

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Sure - there are multiple possibilities for internal leakage. But what is NOT a possibility is the piston seal on the cylinder(s).

Dan
This is TOTALLY wrong. I don't know how many times I have seen fluid bypass a in a cylinder. Cylinder position has little to do with this unless the internal cylinder wall is scarred in a specific area. If you worked in heavy industrial maintenance, you would see this often.
 

dvcochran

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All spool valves leak internally.

New out of the box 5-6 cc/min @ 100 bar would be a superior number. 10-12 cc/min @ 100 bar would be typical. Over time the spools and bores in the valve body wear, the oil clearance opens up, and spool leakage increases.

Dan
Correct. This can be factored in when evaluating how much oil in in the cup.
 

Henro

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This is TOTALLY wrong. I don't know how many times I have seen fluid bypass a in a cylinder. Cylinder position has little to do with this unless the internal cylinder wall is scarred in a specific area. If you worked in heavy industrial maintenance, you would see this often.
Actually if think about it, it is totally right. At least in the context Dan was referring to.

Take a moment and reason it out. Took me a while too. (Actually not much time. :giggle:)