Can't crank B6100

ShaunBlake

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Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
902
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77
Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
I ran the tractor for about 20 minutes, shut down very briefly, and it wouldn't turn over, even on decompression.

Battery fully charged; specific gravity of all cells within .2 of 13.00.

No bad cable/bad connections were found, but there have been several orphan wires from the day I received it. I don't know if any were newly orphaned.

Tried to see if current is available at the starter using the old screwdriver switch between the battery cable and the B terminal, and get a very faint sparkle.

Bad ground? Tried running a jumper cable from the battery Neg to the exhaust manifold -- same. Starter isn't loose, so is the hot cable bad?

The tractor is out behind the neighbor's house, so I'm hoping to get it running wihout too much wrenching and disassembly.

Any suggestions deeply appreciated.

Oh, and I'm ASS-u-ming I'm jumping the right terminals on the solenoid -- it's been almost 50 years since I was adept at such things, and it ISN'T like riding a bike! :eek:
 

Tooljunkie

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Equipment
L1501,home built carry all, mini plow blade.
May 13, 2014
4,124
1
38
56
Lac Du Bonnet, Manitoba,Canada
So eliminate all question, throw away them cheap 30 year old booster cables and go borrow your neighbors good set. Ok kidding. Booster cable positive to battery and big terminal on starter, negative to some shiny metal part like a starter or alternator bolt. Now screwdriver big terminal to little. No,wait!!
Make sure its in neutral and brake is on. Try it now.

Questionable cables frustrate me.
A fully charged battery can still be bad, an open circuit internally in battery can carry a little power, but under load will arc inside. Hydrogen gas is explosive. More than methane according to mythbusters. Safety glasses is minimum when fiddling with a questionable battery.
 
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ItsAndy

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Equipment
B6100E, M300 Howse, Woods RM400
Jul 27, 2015
3
0
0
East of Coon Bottom
I had a similar problem. Not sure if the same fix will work for you or not...

I had a bad fuse holder. One of the contacts inside the fuse holder was bad. After I repaired it, the power was strong enough to start the tractor.

There are two fuses under the instrument cluster. It was one of them.

I hope this helps.
 

ShaunBlake

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Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
902
0
0
77
Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
Oh, you stinker, there's gonna be an Orange Alert next time you try to cross the border! (My cables are 8ga)

Yes, I check every time I get ready to energize the starter, confirming I left it in neutered mode.

Dude, it's tractor, and been repainted -- even the wiring, hoses, and belts! The only shiny part on it is the spot I didn't rub against the tree. Okay, just kidding, I'm using an exhaust manifold bolt.

I'm going to try your suggestion with the positive to the starter. Can't tonight, it'll have to wait until Monday... unless I can get a special dispensation... I'll try to find out after Mass tomorrow.

Yes, the wiring bothers me more than the weak hydraulics. I don't need the headlights, but it chaps my (whatever) that they cut the wire to the headlight. And that they painted all the wires gray. And the glow plug indicator... oh, skip it. Maybe my annoyance burned up some wires.

Hey, one happy note: the battery hasn't blown up! Guess I'll take it over to O'Reilly's Monday and get it load tested. I'd bet a bottle of Jamison (12-yr) that it's not blown. If you saw the wiring... <sigh>

Thanks, TJ, I'll keep you posted.
 

ShaunBlake

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
902
0
0
77
Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
Thanks, Andy! I guess I shoulda mentioned that I found the two fuses, and both are good.

What were your symptoms? Did you have power to the dash (like the light came on when you turn the key on), but it wouldn't crank?
 

ShaunBlake

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
902
0
0
77
Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
Update: Can't crank B6100

Thought the battery was "blown" because it had ~13.5V and each cell's specific gravity was 1.29 on each end and the other four were 1.3. Got a 550CCA 51R, hooked it up and... nada. Exactly the same: short B-terminal to S-terminal, expecting the starter to spin and... nada.

Done everything I can think of, including replacing battery clamps, as well as ring connectors on the battery end of each cable.

The bizarre thing is that if I jump hot to the B-terminal and short across B- to S-terminal, there is only a tiny amount of amperage. I'm wondering if there is an open short in the lead to the field winding.

Only thing I can think to do is pull the starter and bench-test or disassemble it. But wait! The wire from the S-terminal that runs back under the starter isn't connected to anything. Bummer! Got to find the mate or I won't remember any of this when I put the starter back in. Hmm... can't find any loose wires... guess it could be between the starter and the block, but I better check the wiring diagram again and see what's up wi' that... Hmm... it's the Safety Switch. But the wires to the Safety Switch disappear into the wiring harness. Where the heck is the connection to the starter?

I sure don't want to pull the starter out there, but I'm out of options. Any suggestions will be eagerly received.
 

Tooljunkie

Active member
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Equipment
L1501,home built carry all, mini plow blade.
May 13, 2014
4,124
1
38
56
Lac Du Bonnet, Manitoba,Canada
Jumping b terminal to s and no change ? You eliminated ground and B+ issues by reterminating boat ends so i cant see anytin else but starter poopin the bed.
Gonna have to pull that puppy and test it on the bench/floor. Using nothing less than 8 guage booster cables try the jumping(not shorting) b to s terminal.
Another shot, try bypassing solenoid altogether if you can.
 

ShaunBlake

New member
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Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
902
0
0
77
Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
Thanks, TJ, both good suggestions. With the FEL in the way and the big clamps on the battery cables, I can't do either. Thought about making a couple of short extensions to screw on the terminals, but that's just avoiding what is the most logical next step: pull the starter. <sob>
 

ShaunBlake

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
902
0
0
77
Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
Solution: Can't crank B6100

Well, with my exhaustive diagnostics and with replacing battery cable connectors; battery cable clamps; and battery, I've succeeded in cranking my Kubbo ... with a new starter.

A very sincere thanks to everyone who offered advice and suggestions -- they were all valuable and appreciated. I re-learned a lot that I knew when I was a kid, and encountered some new wrinkles (such as solenoids built in such a way that they must be destroyed in order to service them, and brush holders designed with the same objective).

When I got the starter apart and saw the condition, I understood better the behavior that mimicked battery issues. (What I found was: a) leaking oil had been drawn into the starter, absorbing dust, and coagulating around the bottom of the starter housing, enveloping the fields; b) a broken brush spring; c) two extremely short brushes; and d) a commutator that was a solid ring of carbon. What I didn't discover was how in the world the starter worked at all.)
 

Daren Todd

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Equipment
Z121S Zero turn mower
May 18, 2014
6,055
98
48
Conway, Arkansas
My starter gets temperamental in the cold. Gonna break down and just order a new one. Gonna replace the alternator also. After 35 years it's do :rolleyes:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ShaunBlake

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
902
0
0
77
Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
My starter gets temperamental in the cold. Gonna break down and just order a new one. Gonna replace the alternator also. After 35 years it's do :rolleyes:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Crank-N-Charge, in Makin Jawjuh -- ordered it Friday, got it this morning. Not reman -- bran nu!

Forty bucks less than the best price I found when I first broke down.
 
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Daren Todd

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
Z121S Zero turn mower
May 18, 2014
6,055
98
48
Conway, Arkansas
Sweet :D got lots of projects to do when I get home. Starter, alternator, rear wheel seal, and a loose fender with thirty years of rust on the mounting bolts (they are really furry :eek:) gotta get the garage cleaned out so I can get the bota in to do the work.


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ShaunBlake

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
902
0
0
77
Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
Cleaning out the garage is my hurdle as well, and it is my biggest obstacle. This time I'm determined to do it properly, which means I must create storage as well as organize the things I'm collecting. And today would be a good day to make a run to the St Vincent de Paul thrift store with a nice donation...