Can anyone spot a common cause for my electrical issues?

Sparty047

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Equipment
L2501 with plow,drag,cultivator,FEL,brush hog
Nov 26, 2019
32
5
8
Eaton Rapids,MI
If you look at my previous threads you will see they are all electrical system problems!! My L2501 is a 2017 model year. Two issues have occurred and I wonder if they are inter-related. The first (Nov 2021) involved no cranking when the key was turned per proper safety procedures. Battery ground was scoured and terminals cleaned. I eventually traced it to the PTO "off" safety switches (or so I thought) and it started.

Months later June 2022), after sitting out in the wet, the engine stalled while idling and would not fire (cranked but would not start).

I received much sage advice and went through all the remedies to bleed the fuel line, etc. to no avail. Engine cranked but would not fire. Somehow I got the idea that the starter might be involved and ended up replacing it. The engine cranked and fired right up. Feedback rightfully pointed out that the starter has nothing to do with relaying the spark to the hot plug. Therefore replacement of the starter could not be the root cause.

Since July there have been no issues with several hours of use every week. At some point, turning the key while seated with the clutch depress gave no crank. I found I could reach back and push the PTO lever into the safety switch and the engine cranked and ran peachy keen! I adopted this as my usual practice to start the machine.....depress clutch, reach back to press PTO astern, turn key....off and running.

Then earlier this week, having used the tractor quite a bit to move cord wood, etc. I switched it off in my driveway and when I tried to start it about an hour later....nothing!!! Sonofabitch!!!

I checked the battery (12.96V) and ground. I removed the PTO switches and found continuity was fine.

Now here's my question. Is there an electrical component that could intermittently short (especially when damp) that would cause this. Tomorrow (by God I am already too busy with late fall tasks to even consider bow hunting - just finally completed winterizing Honda outboard today and still need to winter cover the pontoon!) I intend to verify the voltage at the starter matches the battery voltage. If that checks out I don't know where to look next.

Please advise me! Where might the this intermittent short be? Remember, I have access to the shop manual, so feel free to reference it. Thank you. Remember to vote Tuesday. Peace/Out.
 

Oil pan 4

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L185 turbo
Sep 21, 2017
325
79
28
NM
It's not a short it's an open when you don't get any or enough voltage to make something happen.
If you are in a wet environment you probably have more than one bad connection.
It's a diesel right?
Does the L2501 have a fuel rack shutoff solenoid?
 
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countryguy

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L2550/FEL/BH M6060/FEL ++
Nov 23, 2018
38
0
6
Fenton
Afternoon- HST or Manual ? I have a 90's L2550- And similar things have happened. I replaced the Ignition switch a few few years ago. That was my biggest reliability event on things like this. We do hay every year and the 2550 is our baby for rake and ted.. filthy job. The dust inside all skins and covers was terrible. but, I also used my trusty Fluke meter and went all through it like you. The next time it did this I pulled off the covers over the Clutch interlock. And that had a rubber boot ( I think ... ) and all I recall was how dirty that was too. Same for the wire inter connect plugs I blew them all out. Clean up everything on every start-up interlock. That was I think 18mo's or so now. I've not had an issue. XX (crossing the fingers!) Did not see the other post, but can you confirm things like checking the interlocks with a Ohm meter, and maybe you pull the ignition and check that too. The fuses... Pull and reseat even ( just throwing that out there as 'hey - why not try it'. and the solenoid for full cutoff.. make sure it's not sticking in maybe? Wire rubs do really weird things as they flex around. My few ideas... CG
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
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You really NEED the electrical wiring diagram for your tractor ! This post is a great example why it'd be nice to have a 'electrical wiring diagram' section on this forum, so others could see HOW tractors are wired.

All I know is you have battery->key switch->clutch->PTO switch-> starter...

You my also have a seat switch in series and that not working right could 'open' the circuit and 'no start'.
it's very common to have an 'operator presence' circuit, an be a simple switch or a 'computer'.
 
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Oil pan 4

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L185 turbo
Sep 21, 2017
325
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If you are just going to throw parts at it might as well take it to a dealer since it seems like that's all they do.
 
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ayak

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L3301 HST
Feb 16, 2018
440
428
63
WV
You really NEED the electrical wiring diagram for your tractor ! This post is a great example why it'd be nice to have a 'electrical wiring diagram' section on this forum, so others could see HOW tractors are wired.

All I know is you have battery->key switch->clutch->PTO switch-> starter...

You my also have a seat switch in series and that not working right could 'open' the circuit and 'no start'.
it's very common to have an 'operator presence' circuit, an be a simple switch or a 'computer'.
Just ran into this — one wonky wire under the seat going to the seat safety switch. Would start ok. But intermittently, power would cut out as I pressed the pedal harder while moving along. Lugbolt’s test really pinpointed it nicely. Presented almost like starved for fuel, but was just this broken wire.

CA67BE38-A40C-4A3C-B47D-FCCE0D74A090.jpeg
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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Do you mean nothing as in no crank or nothing as in no start?
And yes need to know what version of L2501 you are working with.
 

Sparty047

Member

Equipment
L2501 with plow,drag,cultivator,FEL,brush hog
Nov 26, 2019
32
5
8
Eaton Rapids,MI
Thanks....It's an 2017 HST SN D67655 (yes diesel). Present from myself after surviving pancreatic cancer in 2016 (LOL).

When I say nothing I mean the starter does not turn.

I do have a 2014 Workshop manual (444pages) Section 9 (Electrical) does have a full page electrical schematic for the HST type.

I'll go back and review responses to see if this answers all questions asked.
Sorry I wasn't more specific in my first post
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Very well could be an issue with the starter relay.
You need to check it with a test light.
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
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According to that diagram, you can ground the b/w or b/l wire on the starter relay and it should spin. This temporarily bypasses the 3 safety swiches. Sadly the diagram says BOT B/W and B/L for that wire !
If the starter spins toy KNOW it's NOT the ign switch(7), fuse(5) ,relay (4 )or starter (2)
Has to be 14,16,18 or the wiring between them and ground.
 

Oil pan 4

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L185 turbo
Sep 21, 2017
325
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28
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What I do is bypass safeties and switches one at a time till the problem goes away and then decide "do I really need that switch/safety".
 
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Sparty047

Member

Equipment
L2501 with plow,drag,cultivator,FEL,brush hog
Nov 26, 2019
32
5
8
Eaton Rapids,MI
What I do is bypass safeties and switches one at a time till the problem goes away and then decide "do I really need that switch/safety".
Here's the electrical circuit for HST safety system (PTO, HST, Clutch, OPC)
Very well could be an issue with the starter relay.
You need to check it with a test light.

I have a test light....Gotta secure the pontoon covers and overhead tarp today and attend an election night family gathering.

Tomorrow I will check the starter relay circuitry and also spin the starter. This tractor is stored up under an overhang off the back of my garage and out of the wind and rain.
 

Oil pan 4

Active member

Equipment
L185 turbo
Sep 21, 2017
325
79
28
NM
It may not even be a switch it's self it could be where the wire connects to the switch or a bad connection in some plug along the circuit.
Or it could be a bad ground, which is common in trailer wiring, you have 12v to the light socket tab, but the light won't turn on, they replace the light, still wont turn on and it drives a lot of people nuts.
 

Sparty047

Member

Equipment
L2501 with plow,drag,cultivator,FEL,brush hog
Nov 26, 2019
32
5
8
Eaton Rapids,MI
UPDATE::::

I started on page 9-S9 of the shop manual: ENGINE STARTING AND STOPPING SYSTEM

I removed the main switch and tested continuity of all terminals: Pass!

PTO (HST) Lever Switch safety leads: Pass!

HST pedal Switch: Pass!

Clutch Pedal Switch: Pass!

Starter Motor B Terminal voltage: Matched Battery Voltage!

Skipped the Starter Motor Test

****Starter Relay****

Terminal checks:
C to chassis with switch off: 12.49 V
A to chassis with switch on: 10.89 V (multiple checks)

Starter Relay Itself

A to B resistance: between 0 and 10 ohm

Battery voltage of 12.49 applied across A to B and continuity check across C and D: FAIL!
(Each time I held wires to battery posts the starter relay "chattered" but resistance remained infinite.)

Seems safe to say that the issue IS with the starter relay (Prize to Wolf Man).

Have a missed anything?

Thanks to all the responders ....

I am going to order the relay and will update after install.
 

Henro

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B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
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Not sure what A, B and C refer to. Perhaps post a picture of the wiring diagram so you can get some good answers.

Replace the suspected relay and see what happens. Then you will know if your conclusion that the relay is the culprit is justified or not.

Easy to do and might save a lot of speculation. AND if it is not the problem, at least you will have a good spare relay for future use...
 

Sparty047

Member

Equipment
L2501 with plow,drag,cultivator,FEL,brush hog
Nov 26, 2019
32
5
8
Eaton Rapids,MI
So the relay is an NAIS product: ACA2115 M05 CA1a-12V-A-5

Devil of a time finding this part! Searched several online Kubota parts dealers and their search function did not return anything for the number above, or "relay,starter", or starter relay. I did find this:

Aeola 1Pack CA1A-12V-N-5, ACA12135 4 Pins 12V 20A Multi-Purpose Relay Replaced 29U-81950-93-00,ACA 12115-1 Automotive Relays for Cranes, Tractors, Trucks, Excavators

Note: it says it replaced ACA 12115-1. Looks the same. I ordered one.

Can anyone reference a supplier for the OEM?
 

Henro

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B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
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If you are not worried about saving a nickle or a dime, I would call a dealer (Messicks or Coleman perhaps) and ask for the current number and a price.

Might be the best way, and save frustration of trying to find somethings that is difficult to find aftermarket.

Just a thought...

Edit: I do realize the cost savings of buying aftermarket. I bought an aftermarket fuel cutoff solenoid for my BX at 20 percent of OEM price delivered. It has worked flawlessly for a couple years not...
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
5,699
2,033
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Greensville,Ontario,Canada
your amazon link comes back 'unavailable'....
found these though..

terrible price ..but direct replacement. you could try Digikey or use one of the $5 'automotive relays', put female spades on the connector base and jumper to OEM harness....