B2650 Seat Switch Problem Solved

DeepWoods

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Equipment
B2650HSDC
Apr 10, 2019
211
114
43
Bigfork Minnesota
I have had my B2650HSDC for almost 2 years and have had a intermittent seat switch problem almost from the begining. Because I have no way to get my tractor back to the dealer to have the seat switch replaced under warranty, I have had the seat switch bypassed since late summer. Well I have permanently solved the problem by installing a magnetic switch on the door of the cab. I disassembled the seat pad to find that what is most likely causing the problem, is the layer of foam between the two copper foil sheets. In cold weather the foam in the seat, as well as the foam between the copper is harder to compress, thus keeping the copper from making contact to close the switch. I also believe that the size of the switch is too small to effectively make contact if you shift your butt in the seat. I really did not want to leave the switch bypassed for safety reasons, so now with the magnetic switch mounted to the door, I have exactly the same functionality as before without all if the hassle of the intermittent failure of the seat switch.

I disassembled the seat pad to gain access to the wires and cut them loose from the copper foil pad. I ran the wires behind, and under the plastic cup holder and to the outside edge where I mounted the switch. The magnet half of the switch is held to the glass door with some good 3m double face tape. Now if my tractors quits running during normal use, I will know to look elsewhere for the problem.

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bird dogger

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Kubota B2650 and lots of other equipment
Feb 24, 2019
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That should work well for you. Nice pics! I've always wondered what those seat pad switches looked like.
 

Orange1forme

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B2650 HSDC, filled tires, wheel spacers, B2728B , LA534A FEL, 3rd valve kit
Dec 1, 2018
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I was thinking of a way to make a dome light switch and thought about the magnetic option.
Keep us updated on this switch.
 
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DeepWoods

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B2650HSDC
Apr 10, 2019
211
114
43
Bigfork Minnesota
I was thinking of a way to make a dome light switch and thought about the magnetic option.
Keep us updated on this switch.

I wish I would have thought about putting the dome light on a magnetic switch while i had the roof off the tractor. It would have been real easy to have run some wires down the pillar to accomplish it. So far the door switch has worked flawlessly.
 

GeoHorn

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HOW..is a switch on the door a good “safety” switch? Are you presuming that if you fall off the seat the door will pop open? What if you roll the opposite direction?

I’d have left the seat switch bypassed and forget about it Personally.
 
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DeepWoods

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Equipment
B2650HSDC
Apr 10, 2019
211
114
43
Bigfork Minnesota
HOW..is a switch on the door a good “safety” switch? Are you presuming that if you fall off the seat the door will pop open? What if you roll the opposite direction?

I’d have left the seat switch bypassed and forget about it Personally.
First of all, if I am operating my tractor from the cab, I always wear my seat belt. So it would be unlikely that I would fall off the seat. The door switch does the same thing the seat switch does, only without the nagging intermittent failure of the seat switch that causes the tractor to shut down because it believes I have removed myself from the seat while either the pto is engaged, without the parking break set, or I have pressed the foot pedal, to make the tractor move in forward or reverse direction without being in the seat. Both actions have been designed into the Operator Presence Control system to shut down the tractor to prevent bad things from happening to the operator or equipment. Now if I open the door, while any of the above mentioned conditions exist, the Operator Presence Control system does the same thing, it shuts down the engine, keeping me and my tractor safe.

While some people may think that I am going to far to be on the safe side of things, thats ok. But this is my first tractor, and I want to make sure that at the end of the day, that I can go home in one piece. I'm sure all of those people that got wound up in their pto shaft, or run over by their own tractor, didnt leave their house that morning thinking that that would be their last day, but it was. Thats not the box thats going to be checked on my death certificate.
 
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GeoHorn

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First of all, if I am operating my tractor from the cab, I always wear my seat belt. So it would be unlikely that I would fall off the seat. The door switch does the same thing the seat switch does, only without the nagging intermittent failure of the seat switch that causes the tractor to shut down because it believes I have removed myself from the seat while either the pto is engaged, without the parking break set, or I have pressed the foot pedal, to make the tractor move in forward or reverse direction without being in the seat. Both actions have been designed into the Operator Presence Control system to shut down the tractor to prevent bad things from happening to the operator or equipment. Now if I open the door, while any of the above mentioned conditions exist, the Operator Presence Control system does the same thing, it shuts down the engine, keeping me and my tractor safe.

While some people may think that I am going to far to be on the safe side of things, thats ok. But this is my first tractor, and I want to make sure that at the end of the day, that I can go home in one piece. I'm sure all of those people that got wound up in their pto shaft, or run over by their own tractor, didnt leave their house that morning thinking that that would be their last day, but it was. Thats not the box thats going to be checked on my death certificate.
Thanks for explaining your thoughts. I didn’t quite understand the logic earlier.
(no intent on My part to criticize... just didn’t get what you were thinking.)

So,... how do you plan to deliberately run your tractor engine when you do not plan to be onboard?
(I do that when changing oil to check for leaks, to burp the radiator when topping off an anti-freeze/coolant change, some folks run PTO equipt such as log-splitters, generators, etc.). one idea,... to place a spare magnet on the cab-switch?)

My M4700 never had a seat switch, it only had a fwd/reverse/range-lever neutral-safety-switch, so
I just use the complex-method Kubota intended.... turn the tractor off when I want to get off it and the engine not run. ;)
 
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DeepWoods

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Equipment
B2650HSDC
Apr 10, 2019
211
114
43
Bigfork Minnesota
Thanks for explaining your thoughts. I didn’t quite understand the logic earlier.
(no intent on My part to criticize... just didn’t get what you were thinking.)

So,... how do you plan to deliberately run your tractor engine when you do not plan to be onboard?
(I do that when changing oil to check for leaks, to burp the radiator when topping off an anti-freeze/coolant change, some folks run PTO equipt such as log-splitters, generators, etc.). one idea,... to place a spare magnet on the cab-switch?)

My M4700 never had a seat switch, it only had a fwd/reverse/range-lever neutral-safety-switch, so
I just use the complex-method Kubota intended.... turn the tractor off when I want to get off it and the engine not run. ;)
The Operator Presence Control system allows the engine to start with the following conditions being met:
The transmission can be in any range, neutral being the preferred choice.
The pto needs to be disengaged
The forward/reverse treadle pedal must be in the centered position.
Under the above conditions the engine will start.
If one needs to do inspections with the engine running, the following conditions should be implemented:
The parking break should be engaged.
The transmission should be in neutral.
Note that these two conditions make it safer to walk around the tractor, but the engine will still start even if these conditions are not met.

If I need to run the pto, say for a chipper, or log splitter, I can open the door and get out of the cab, if I first engage the parking break. I need not put the transmission in neutral, but it is recommended. I can then engage the pto, and exit the cab.

The seat switch, now replaced by my door switch, only plays a part of the Operator Presence Control system when any operation of the tractor requires that one actually be sitting in the seat to perform any tractor operation that requires movement of the tractor, or pto engagement. So again, if I open my door while my pto is engaged, or I am trying to move my tractor forward or reverse, my engine will shut down.

As I understand it, the above stàtements may only apply to my specific B2650HSDC model tractor, and that other models have different requirements for the safe operation of that model. I would encourage everyone to read and follow the operators manual for their specific tractor, and follow all manufacturers recommendations.
 
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PatsyC

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front end snowblower, box scraper
Apr 2, 2020
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Minden Hills, Ontario, Canada
I have had an intermittent seat safety issue with my B2650 since the first winter while snow blowing. Being new to operating a tractor, I wrote it off to winter cold because it always restarted and off I’d go clearing snow.
This summer saw many hours being logged with the front end loader, fork lift and box scraper. The issue of loosing power became much more worrisome. I began thinking the tractor was quite sick. Service rep from the dealership came by today. We did the 400 hour service at 340 hours and ordered a new seat switch. I believe the issue of poorly designed safety switches should be a recall issue as I’ve been reading it’s not an isolated case. Do recall issues even exist with tractors? Mine is about 2.5 years old.
 

sheepfarmer

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Nov 14, 2014
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I have had an intermittent seat safety issue with my B2650 since the first winter while snow blowing. Being new to operating a tractor, I wrote it off to winter cold because it always restarted and off I’d go clearing snow.
This summer saw many hours being logged with the front end loader, fork lift and box scraper. The issue of loosing power became much more worrisome. I began thinking the tractor was quite sick. Service rep from the dealership came by today. We did the 400 hour service at 340 hours and ordered a new seat switch. I believe the issue of poorly designed safety switches should be a recall issue as I’ve been reading it’s not an isolated case. Do recall issues even exist with tractors? Mine is about 2.5 years old.
I have had my B2650 for several years now, and the seat switch sensitivity is worse in the cold (and I am wearing a down coat and quilted coveralls?) . The dealer replaced the seatswitch early on to see if it would help, but not much. What solves the problem is a thin piece of styrofoam about 8" square between the seat insert that holds the switch sensor and the seat. The seat sensor panel is in the middle of the seat held in place with velcro. The styrofoam allows a lighter weight bottom to apply adequate pressure to the sensor. Not uncomfortable. Also sensor seemed to be less fussy once cab was warmed up.
 

Henro

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B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
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North of Pittsburgh PA
I'm with GeoHorn here.

Excessive safety switches to protect those who might need protected (when they cause grief to operators) is right up there with mandated vaccinations for covid in my book...LOL (even though I am vaccinated and boosted...)

Just stirring the pot a bit, but still...I am in GeoHorn's camp.
 
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fried1765

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Nov 14, 2019
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I'm with GeoHorn here.

Excessive safety switches to protect those who might need protected (when they cause grief to operators) is right up there with mandated vaccinations for covid in my book...LOL (even though I am vaccinated and boosted...)

Just stirring the pot a bit, but still...I am in GeoHorn's camp.
ME TOO !
 

07wingnut

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Feb 13, 2016
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Clearwater, BC, CA
I have an older BX23 with most of those troublesome safety switches. They are all working as they should right now, but they seem to cause trouble, just when you really need your tractor. Consequently, after consulting the WSM schematic, there is now a switch that will bypass all of them at once. That way, you can keep on operating till there is a good time to fix them. It has bailed me out more than once.

bypass1.jpg bypass2.jpg
 
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GeoHorn

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May 18, 2018
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Texas
I have had my B2650 for several years now, and the seat switch sensitivity is worse in the cold (and I am wearing a down coat and quilted coveralls?) . …
33FED527-06A2-40EE-8AF2-A2B5E070BC47.jpeg
 
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Freeheeler

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b2650 tlb
Aug 16, 2018
383
113
43
Knoxville, TN
The Operator Presence Control system allows the engine to start with the following conditions being met:
The transmission can be in any range, neutral being the preferred choice.
The pto needs to be disengaged
The forward/reverse treadle pedal must be in the centered position.
Under the above conditions the engine will start.
If one needs to do inspections with the engine running, the following conditions should be

If I need to run the pto, say for a chipper, or log splitter, I can open the door and get out of the cab, if I first engage the parking break. I need not put the transmission in neutral, but it is reco

So again, if I open my door while my pto is engaged, or I am trying to move my tractor forward or reverse, my engine will shut down.
If I need to run the pto, say for a chipper, or log splitter, I can open the door and get out of the cab, if I first engage the parking break. I need not put the transmission in neutral, but it is recommended. I can then engage the pto, and exit the cab.

So again, if I open my door while my pto is engaged, or I am trying to move my tractor forward or reverse, my engine will shut down.
I'm confused. If you engage the rear pto to run your chipper, how can you open the door to get out? If you are out running the chipper, how do you get back in without opening the door and having the engine shut down? Those 2 sentences I quoted seem to contradict each other. I like the idea, just confused by the conflicting statements.
 

DeepWoods

Active member

Equipment
B2650HSDC
Apr 10, 2019
211
114
43
Bigfork Minnesota
I'm confused. If you engage the rear pto to run your chipper, how can you open the door to get out? If you are out running the chipper, how do you get back in without opening the door and having the engine shut down? Those 2 sentences I quoted seem to contradict each other. I like the idea, just confused by the conflicting statements.
I should have written those instructions more clearly. As long as the parking break is set BEFORE opening the door, it makes no difference in which order I perform the other operations. I could actually engage the pto after exiting the cab. It is the operation of setting the parking break that allows a cabbed B2650hsdc to operate the pto without an operator in the seat. In my case, my door switch replaces the seat switch. Hopefully this clarifies my previous statements.
 
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TBayOrange

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B2650, LA534 FEL, BH77 backhoe, B2782 63" front mount snow blower.
Dec 1, 2019
21
0
1
Thunder Bay, ON
I have had my B2650HSDC for almost 2 years and have had a intermittent seat switch problem almost from the begining. Because I have no way to get my tractor back to the dealer to have the seat switch replaced under warranty, I have had the seat switch bypassed since late summer. Well I have permanently solved the problem by installing a magnetic switch on the door of the cab. I disassembled the seat pad to find that what is most likely causing the problem, is the layer of foam between the two copper foil sheets. In cold weather the foam in the seat, as well as the foam between the copper is harder to compress, thus keeping the copper from making contact to close the switch. I also believe that the size of the switch is too small to effectively make contact if you shift your butt in the seat. I really did not want to leave the switch bypassed for safety reasons, so now with the magnetic switch mounted to the door, I have exactly the same functionality as before without all if the hassle of the intermittent failure of the seat switch.

I disassembled the seat pad to gain access to the wires and cut them loose from the copper foil pad. I ran the wires behind, and under the plastic cup holder and to the outside edge where I mounted the switch. The magnet half of the switch is held to the glass door with some good 3m double face tape. Now if my tractors quits running during normal use, I will know to look elsewhere for the problem.

View attachment 51523


View attachment 51524 View attachment 51525
excellent work around
Cheers
 

TBayOrange

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Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650, LA534 FEL, BH77 backhoe, B2782 63" front mount snow blower.
Dec 1, 2019
21
0
1
Thunder Bay, ON
I have had an intermittent seat safety issue with my B2650 since the first winter while snow blowing. Being new to operating a tractor, I wrote it off to winter cold because it always restarted and off I’d go clearing snow.
This summer saw many hours being logged with the front end loader, fork lift and box scraper. The issue of loosing power became much more worrisome. I began thinking the tractor was quite sick. Service rep from the dealership came by today. We did the 400 hour service at 340 hours and ordered a new seat switch. I believe the issue of poorly designed safety switches should be a recall issue as I’ve been reading it’s not an isolated case. Do recall issues even exist with tractors? Mine is about 2.5 years old.
I am in almost the exact same situation, my B2650 is 2.25 years old 360 hours, and the seat switch issue started in the summer and got continually worse with time.
The dealer in my area is not very good and argued with me about what was goin on, that is why I decided to bypass the switch.
Cheers