Anyone have an OPC* Timer fail?

FTG-05

Member

Equipment
L4330 w/FEL
Jul 21, 2013
167
21
18
TN
Apparently mine has. Intermittent fail to start (cranks fine), then went hard failure. Traced the electrons from the key stop solenoid to the key stop relay then to the OPC timer. I could not reliably test the OPC timer as described in the WSM. Hence, I decided to bypass it and see if the tractor started. Fired right up. Finally hearing the key stop solenoid activating was the first clue that the OPC bypass fixed it.

The OPC timer is about $93 from Messicks plus their shipping cost, which is usually a bunch. :( It's an epoxy sealed unit, so nothing to repair; replacement is the only option.

Anyone else ever have the OPC Timer fail?

* OPC = Operator Presence Control i.e. another "safety" switch.
 

Roadworthy

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L2501 HST
Aug 17, 2019
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I have not personally experienced that particular problem though others on this site have written of it.
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
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re: It's an epoxy sealed unit, so nothing to repair; replacement is the only option.

epoxy can be removed to repair the module, though not cost effective.....

you can design/build your own for about $15,if 'good with chips'.
 
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whitetiger

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Kubota tech..BX2370, RCK60, B7100HST, RTV900 w plow, Ford 1100 FWA
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
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yeesh, 1 every couple of months. Sounds like a great money maker for them.100 for the part, 100 for the repair when ,for less than a buck, they could be made 'bullet proof'.
It's sad the amount of lost 'seat time' /productivity due to substandard parts.
 
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FTG-05

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Equipment
L4330 w/FEL
Jul 21, 2013
167
21
18
TN
I bypassed mine yesterday - permanently. Cut the wires to the POC timer as close to the body as I could. Found the two switched hots, the OPC timer hot lead and the ground. Permently attached the two switched hots and the OPC timer hot lead together, shrink wrapped them, then reconnected the plug into the connector. Tractor started up normally several times after the repair.
 

Henro

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B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
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I bypassed mine yesterday - permanently. Cut the wires to the POC timer as close to the body as I could. Found the two switched hots, the OPC timer hot lead and the ground. Permently attached the two switched hots and the OPC timer hot lead together, shrink wrapped them, then reconnected the plug into the connector. Tractor started up normally several times after the repair.
I do not know your tractor, but have a question.

Obviously, your fix worked to solve your immediate issue.

BUT, I keep thinking the OPC timer relay must have been used for a reason.

Have you considered what might be different now that you eliminated it? Unlikely the manufacturer would include the relay, if it were not there for a purpose. Costs them money to install the relay, that kind of thinking.

For example, could you now be energizing a coil in the fuel cutoff solenoid, that will fail eventually, because it is not designed to be powered all the time?

Just a question because I do not have a clue about your tractor, but keep thinking the OPC timer relay must have been included for some reason.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
4,382
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The OPC timer relay and 'stuff' is to satsify some 'safety' aspect for the lawyers. Lawyers of course who have probably never seen a tractor ,let alone operate one and seen what a PITA(literally) OPC is ! get up to confirm the bucket load is right, engine stops... worse yet, sit down just before it does fully shutoff , and then have the engine bang,bang, back to life...
 

FTG-05

Member

Equipment
L4330 w/FEL
Jul 21, 2013
167
21
18
TN
I do not know your tractor, but have a question.

Obviously, your fix worked to solve your immediate issue.

BUT, I keep thinking the OPC timer relay must have been used for a reason.

Have you considered what might be different now that you eliminated it? Unlikely the manufacturer would include the relay, if it were not there for a purpose. Costs them money to install the relay, that kind of thinking.

For example, could you now be energizing a coil in the fuel cutoff solenoid, that will fail eventually, because it is not designed to be powered all the time?

Just a question because I do not have a clue about your tractor, but keep thinking the OPC timer relay must have been included for some reason.
The inputs are switched hots, so operation is exactly the same with the OPC timer, just hard wired.
 
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Henro

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The inputs are switched hots, so operation is exactly the same with the OPC timer, just hard wired.
Not trying to beat a dead dog... but still curious.

Are you saying there was a hot wire that came to the relay from the OPC, and two wires that left the timer relay and went somewhere?

IF so, how did you verify that in normal operation both wires that left the relay are energized whenever the relay is energized?

If you are now using the OPC output to power down stream devices, are you sure the OPC is able to provide such power in the long term?

Relays sometimes have normally open and normally closed contacts. So with a relay it is possible that when it is not energized, that voltage could be passed through the relay, and that this voltage could be removed from the exit wire, when the relay is energized.

Generally, when a relay is used, the relay coil is activated by a control source signal, in the case it would be an OPC output, and power is supplied seperately to the relay contacts to be sent on somewhere. In other words, the OPC would activate the relay, and the relay would pass voltage on to other devices down stream.

Without a wiring diagram or schematic it is hard to know what your tractor's control scheme actually is.

But the question remains: If you found a hot wire feeding the relay contacts, and two wires leaving the relay going somewhere, how did you determine that the two wires going somewhere should be energized at the same time? This very well could be the case, but it does not have to be without verification.

It could be that the timer relay simply is a way to provide power to the following circuitry at a greater level than the OPC output itself can handle. And/or that an external relay was necessary because a timer function was not part of the OPC internal logic.

Maybe the modification you made simply eliminated some safety interlocks. That almost sounds like it to me. For example, maybe the timer just gives some time for you to get out of the seat and flip it up so the tractor remains running while you operate some function from the ground? If so, it would make sense that eliminating the relay and just connecting the hot input wire and the two output wire would be electrically OK and cause no harm.

Just intellectual curiosity at my end. Would be nice to see an electrical schematic for your tractor...
 
Last edited:

lugbolt

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ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
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Someone mentioned the cost of the item, and the cost of any labor that a dealer might charge to install it. Let's expand on that.

The cost of the part, first.
It is made overseas. Let's say the part is $100 retail. Overseas supplier builds it for $10. They sell it for $20. Then it has to be shipped across the pond. Add $15 ($45). It gets to a terminal, then an unload fee is charged (now $50). Tariff. $10 ($60). Now there is a middleman, who sells it to Kubota. Let's say $25 added ($85). Kubota sells it to the dealer for $90. Dealer sells it to customer for $100, makes ten bucks. Some parts are more, some less. Why's the dealer gonna rip your head off? Because the dealer has bills. They have to pay a parts guy to sell it. They have to pay for a computer place to maintain the business systems. They pay shipping & handling charges, taxes, fees, insurance, utilities, and a whole lot of other things. In the end, the dealer might make 10% after all the bills are paid.

How about shop labor? $100 an hour is our example; and that's cheap now. Immediately, $25 off the top for paying the tech's $25/hr. That doesn't account for any commissions, which may be 4-15% per labor hour depending on the shop. Pay a service manager. Another $20. Now we're up to $45. Insurance. Taxes. Government fees. Utilities. We're up to $90 now. Special tools. We're now at $100. The shop makes little after ALL the bills are paid, many of them are reliant on the sales department to keep the business afloat. Not all, though. That's exactly why they are trying to upsell you. During installation of the $100 timer relay, they notice that you have some oil around the oil filter. They're going to recommend an oil filter change and possibly the oil too. Or they might see that your front hubs are showing sign of leakage. They'll recommend replacement of those too. Some customers are gonna say "oh BS they weren't leaking when I bought it in", and to that you can't change anyone's mind, all you can do is point it out and let their front end run out of oil and fix it later, for a whole lot more money. Dealer service departments often get a bad reputation over this kind of thing but in my case, it's just something I do, to HELP the owner. That is ALL I want to do, is help people, I'm not out to take their money, if I didn't have bills, I'd do it for free. But I have bills just like everyone else does, thus I must charge a little for my services to help pay them. And the higher MY bills go, the more I have to charge to stay on this side of the dirt. That is exactly why things cost as much as they do, and for the life of me I can't grasp why others refuse to understand that.
 
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cozzb

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Equipment
L3430, L3400
Jan 27, 2022
2
0
1
USA
I am having intermittent shut offs. It starts fine, runs about 15-30 seconds and shuts off. I can hear the solonoid click. I replaced the fuel stop solonoid which did not fix. Thinking its the OPC. Do you recall a diagram or which wires connect? I want to bypass mine to see if it runs continously without shutting off before i replace it. I have already jumped the seat switch.

Thank you. Mines an L3430 for information

Apparently mine has. Intermittent fail to start (cranks fine), then went hard failure. Traced the electrons from the key stop solenoid to the key stop relay then to the OPC timer. I could not reliably test the OPC timer as described in the WSM. Hence, I decided to bypass it and see if the tractor started. Fired right up. Finally hearing the key stop solenoid activating was the first clue that the OPC bypass fixed it.

The OPC timer is about $93 from Messicks plus their shipping cost, which is usually a bunch. :( It's an epoxy sealed unit, so nothing to repair; replacement is the only option.

Anyone else ever have the OPC Timer fail?

* OPC = Operator Presence Control i.e. another "safety" switch.
 

cozzb

New member

Equipment
L3430, L3400
Jan 27, 2022
2
0
1
USA
I finally found a diagram. One hot is from 5Amp fuse which is supply Red with White. Black is ground. Black with Blue stripe on mine is 12 volt to Key stop relay in dash from OPC. Red with brown needs 12 volts to supply the safety switches. Tying R/W, R/B and B/L or looks like Blue will get the machine up and running.

Ordered an OPC timer. Original Poster's fix will allow me to use the machine to push snow if we get it until OPC comes in.


I am having intermittent shut offs. It starts fine, runs about 15-30 seconds and shuts off. I can hear the solonoid click. I replaced the fuel stop solonoid which did not fix. Thinking its the OPC. Do you recall a diagram or which wires connect? I want to bypass mine to see if it runs continously without shutting off before i replace it. I have already jumped the seat switch.

Thank you. Mines an L3430 for information