Another Am I getting Shafted Question

D2Cat

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L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
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I was taught: "A promise made is a debt owed." However, in today's world it holds very little meaning.
 
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GeoHorn

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May 18, 2018
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They can ask, but it isn't guaranteed that the judge will allow it.
Agreed. I’ve been successful in 3 different, unrelated court cases…in each case attorney and court costs were part of the suit…and in each case the final rulings, despite being in my favor,… assigned all atty and court fees to the individual parties to the suit. I.E. we each had to pay our own.
 

hagrid

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K1600GTL, ZX-14R
Jun 11, 2018
560
528
93
Pittsburgh
Agreed. I’ve been successful in 3 different, unrelated court cases…in each case attorney and court costs were part of the suit…and in each case the final rulings, despite being in my favor,… assigned all atty and court fees to the individual parties to the suit. I.E. we each had to pay our own.
Were any of those suits regarding exploding polyvinyl chloride pipe in service of a compressed air distribution system?
 
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Rdrcr

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L2501 w/ S2T Turbo Kit = 35 PTO HP (Current), B2601 (Sold)
May 7, 2021
428
406
63
WA
I received my reply from Kubota. They wrote,

"Please accept our apologies for this situation and for any inconvenience you may have been caused.
Unfortunately, quotes for units are not price protected as that requires a Regional Sales Managers approval.

You will need to contact your local Kubota dealership for questions regarding purchasing, discount and reimbursement options, . Our dealerships are independently owned and operate and hold full discretion regarding these matters."
I keep hearing the same thing that Kubota "no longer" locks prices. Well, in my seemingly useless opinion the fact that Kubota no longer locks in quotes is not really my problem. They apparently did so when I put the down payment on my tractor order and the dealer put it in an email stating that I would be "Locking in my price" if I did so before the Jan. 1, 22 price changes took place. I'm a stubborn person who was raised in families from both sides that when your word was given you stood by it no matter how bad it hurt in the end. When a person gives their word, it is their responsibility to see to it that it was kept.
This is a quoted excerpt from the December 30th, 2021, email I received from the dealer.

" I will need you to fill out the application today and do a deposit so my finance office can get the paperwork ready for you to sign before tomorrow to lock in the price. "

Basically, what some are saying here is that yeah you were lied to and now if you want that tractor pay the extra or shut up. That is absolutely infuriating. I still haven't heard from the attorney yet, so that is pretty much my last chance at any help. I doubt if this doesn't work, I'll ever own an orange tractor and believe me there are at least a dozen people at work that ask me about this saga every day at work. They have been telling their families about how crappy this is. The power of social media can be strong this day in age.
I’m unfortunately not surprised by Kubota’s response. And, that was my concern with the ‘quote’ you received.

The dealer is the entity that promised to lock in the price with your down payment. I’m hoping they keep their word and honor their commitment.

Mike
 

Swamp

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L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
22
20
3
Wisconsin
The dealer has not communicated with me since the phone call they initiated with me that included the sales manager. That was when I was told that they notified my wife during those calls concerning the program ending and the prices increasing. I informed them that I was requesting copies of those calls and their notification of the fact that the calls were being recorded. I also sent them a request in writing for the call recordings along with copies of the emails where they stated my pricing would be locked in as long as I gave them a deposit in the amount that they agreed to by the date they designated. I also informed them at that time, the disclaimer was referring to finance programs ending and nothing to do with price increases. That was Friday November 25th. so, I have little hope that they will be initiating any type of offer that remotely resembles honor.
 

fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
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Eastham, Ma
O
They can ask, but it isn't guaranteed that the judge will allow it.
Of course the judge can deny, but the important thing is to include an attorney fee recovery request in the court filed complaint.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
6,255
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Greensville,Ontario,Canada
I've heard this said several times over many decades....

In any (all ? ) contract law , ANY ambiguity( something that is unclear, not specific, can be taken more than one way.....) as to what is WRITTEN within the 'four corners of the contract goes in favour of the side that did NOT write the contract.
 
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fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
2,682
1,841
113
Eastham, Ma
I received my reply from Kubota. They wrote,

"Please accept our apologies for this situation and for any inconvenience you may have been caused.
Unfortunately, quotes for units are not price protected as that requires a Regional Sales Managers approval.

You will need to contact your local Kubota dealership for questions regarding purchasing, discount and reimbursement options, . Our dealerships are independently owned and operate and hold full discretion regarding these matters."
I keep hearing the same thing that Kubota "no longer" locks prices. Well, in my seemingly useless opinion the fact that Kubota no longer locks in quotes is not really my problem. They apparently did so when I put the down payment on my tractor order and the dealer put it in an email stating that I would be "Locking in my price" if I did so before the Jan. 1, 22 price changes took place. I'm a stubborn person who was raised in families from both sides that when your word was given you stood by it no matter how bad it hurt in the end. When a person gives their word, it is their responsibility to see to it that it was kept.
This is a quoted excerpt from the December 30th, 2021, email I received from the dealer.

" I will need you to fill out the application today and do a deposit so my finance office can get the paperwork ready for you to sign before tomorrow to lock in the price. "

Basically, what some are saying here is that yeah you were lied to and now if you want that tractor pay the extra or shut up. That is absolutely infuriating. I still haven't heard from the attorney yet, so that is pretty much my last chance at any help. I doubt if this doesn't work, I'll ever own an orange tractor and believe me there are at least a dozen people at work that ask me about this saga every day at work. They have been telling their families about how crappy this is. The power of social media can be strong this day in age.
I am certain that there are MANY supporters here on OTT who will help you spread the word on Kubota/dealer shenanigans.
Count me in!
 
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Swamp

New member

Equipment
L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
22
20
3
Wisconsin
I am certain that there are MANY supporters here on OTT who will help you spread the word on Kubota/dealer shenanigans.
Count me in!
The support is much appreciated. It may not have a bearing on the outcome, but it helps my brain and my heart!
 

DustyRusty

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BX23S
Nov 8, 2015
3,269
2,183
113
North East
What was the original cost of the tractor when you put down the deposit? Below is the cost today, but might not be accurate enough because I don't know how it was ordered. You can google Build a Kubota tractor and go to the Kubota website to see the current costs. I just can't understand an increase of $9000 for that tractor in one year. Might there be added items added to the tractor that you didn't order? You need to see the tractor and exactly what is being delivered. I wouldn't shy away from visiting the dealer, just don't get into any discussions with them. Bring a hidden tape recorder to protect yourself.


Base Price Including Tires$30,512.00
[+] Selected Attachments Edit$17,900.00

Orange Protection Program (Extended Warranty)
see dealer for pricing
Factory Assembly$105.00
List Price$48,517.00
Available Manufacturer Rebates:
Cash Customer Instant Rebate Up To($1,400.00)
Finance Customer Instant Rebate Up To($700.00)
Orange Plus Implement Discount Up To($400.00)
 

Swamp

New member

Equipment
L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
22
20
3
Wisconsin
What was the original cost of the tractor when you put down the deposit? Below is the cost today, but might not be accurate enough because I don't know how it was ordered. You can google Build a Kubota tractor and go to the Kubota website to see the current costs. I just can't understand an increase of $9000 for that tractor in one year. Might there be added items added to the tractor that you didn't order? You need to see the tractor and exactly what is being delivered. I wouldn't shy away from visiting the dealer, just don't get into any discussions with them. Bring a hidden tape recorder to protect yourself.


Base Price Including Tires$30,512.00
[+] Selected Attachments Edit$17,900.00

Orange Protection Program (Extended Warranty)
see dealer for pricing
Factory Assembly$105.00
List Price$48,517.00
Available Manufacturer Rebates:
Cash Customer Instant Rebate Up To($1,400.00)
Finance Customer Instant Rebate Up To($700.00)
Orange Plus Implement Discount Up To($400.00)
I believe on page two I listed the original quote that lists the equipment and options I ordered. It was something like $46,998, added to that was like $1600 for the 3rd function that allows me to switch the hydraulic flow from the hoe to the grapple on the loader without swapping hydraulic lines, then discounts and the final total was just under $46K. I gave them a $2k down payment So the Finance total should be Just under $44K. Now they say I would owe them another $52K beyond the down payment.
I called another dealer 7 hours away in another state that has one of these in stock. Turns out they had a guy who ordered one and then his financing wouldn't go through? My guess is that, maybe they tried to jack his price up also. They had a package listed with the tractor, hog, box blade, trailer and the 765 loader for $44K. I called to see if they would break the package up and get me the hoe etc. The guy was super nice and got me a quote literally in under a 1/2 hour. The quote was almost exactly the same at $54k plus tax. The closer dealer would be delivering the tractor to me, and this newest quote was with me driving the 14 hour round trip to pick up the tractor. That is where the numbers really start to bother me. Maybe I'm just trying to do something I shouldn't, but I could financially do what I had intended. Now with these price increases I would be straining my budget and I won't do that. So, if the original dealer won't stand by their word, it will be "No orange for me."
As an interesting side note. According to MICHIGAN CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT
Act 331 of 1976
445.903 Unfair, unconscionable, or deceptive methods, acts, or practices in conduct of trade or commerce; rules; applicability of subsection (1)(hh).
Section (m) Causing a probability of confusion or of misunderstanding with respect to the authority of a salesperson, representative, or agent to negotiate the final terms of a transaction.
According to the response from Kubota the dealer or salesperson had no right to tell me that my price would be locked in. According to Kubota only a regional sales manager could do that. So, from what I see the dealership has knowingly engaged in an illegal activity. I am supposedly going to here from the attorney before noon today. We'll see I guess.
 

fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
2,682
1,841
113
Eastham, Ma
I believe on page two I listed the original quote that lists the equipment and options I ordered. It was something like $46,998, added to that was like $1600 for the 3rd function that allows me to switch the hydraulic flow from the hoe to the grapple on the loader without swapping hydraulic lines, then discounts and the final total was just under $46K. I gave them a $2k down payment So the Finance total should be Just under $44K. Now they say I would owe them another $52K beyond the down payment.
I called another dealer 7 hours away in another state that has one of these in stock. Turns out they had a guy who ordered one and then his financing wouldn't go through? My guess is that, maybe they tried to jack his price up also. They had a package listed with the tractor, hog, box blade, trailer and the 765 loader for $44K. I called to see if they would break the package up and get me the hoe etc. The guy was super nice and got me a quote literally in under a 1/2 hour. The quote was almost exactly the same at $54k plus tax. The closer dealer would be delivering the tractor to me, and this newest quote was with me driving the 14 hour round trip to pick up the tractor. That is where the numbers really start to bother me. Maybe I'm just trying to do something I shouldn't, but I could financially do what I had intended. Now with these price increases I would be straining my budget and I won't do that. So, if the original dealer won't stand by their word, it will be "No orange for me."
As an interesting side note. According to MICHIGAN CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT
Act 331 of 1976
445.903 Unfair, unconscionable, or deceptive methods, acts, or practices in conduct of trade or commerce; rules; applicability of subsection (1)(hh).
Section (m) Causing a probability of confusion or of misunderstanding with respect to the authority of a salesperson, representative, or agent to negotiate the final terms of a transaction.
According to the response from Kubota the dealer or salesperson had no right to tell me that my price would be locked in. According to Kubota only a regional sales manager could do that. So, from what I see the dealership has knowingly engaged in an illegal activity. I am supposedly going to here from the attorney before noon today. We'll see I guess.

It seems quite obvious to me that your situation falls squarely within the parameters of the Michigan Consumer Protection Act!
NOW: Who is going to enforce that act/law,..... and what will the remedy actually be?
 
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DustyRusty

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23S
Nov 8, 2015
3,269
2,183
113
North East
If nothing else, they took the $2000 deposit in bad faith, and the state will look at that as cementing the deal. You might not get the tractor, but you will get your $2000 plus interest back, and the Kubota dealer might be looking at a stiff fine from the state. In the end, there are no winners, only losers in this deal gone bad.
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
2,643
649
113
SE, IN
Agreed. I’ve been successful in 3 different, unrelated court cases…in each case attorney and court costs were part of the suit…and in each case the final rulings, despite being in my favor,… assigned all atty and court fees to the individual parties to the suit. I.E. we each had to pay our own.
Routine.

Attorney fees and court costs rarely awarded.
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
2,643
649
113
SE, IN
It seems quite obvious to me that your situation falls squarely within the parameters of the Michigan Consumer Protection Act!
NOW: Who is going to enforce that act/law,..... and what will the remedy actually be?
Good luck with that. Courts almost never enforce specific performance.

Should have no problem getting deposit back, perhaps with interest in small claims Ct.

Not worth it after fees and costs to file in district Ct. Dealer and dealer's attorney know this.
 

PaulL

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Equipment
B2601
Jul 17, 2017
1,474
670
113
NZ
Not worth it after fees and costs to file in district Ct. Dealer and dealer's attorney know this.
To me it's like the North Korean leader. He has a weak hand - why would you start a war with a massively more powerful country? Unless you're crazy. He's doing a good job of looking crazy, and that's a deterrent.

The dealer's attorney knows it's not worth it to file. But it's also not worth it to defend. You know it's not worth it to file, but do they know you know? If you look crazy enough to file anyway, because you care about the principle of the thing, then maybe they'll settle. Cause they don't want to go to court any more than you do.
 

D2Cat

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Lifetime Member

Equipment
L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
11,252
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113
40 miles south of Kansas City
I'd suggest contacting your state's Attorney General. Their responsibly is to protect citizens from scams, fraud, etc. and businesses don't like to deal with them if there is possibly a conflict.
 

fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
2,682
1,841
113
Eastham, Ma
Excelle
I'd suggest contacting your state's Attorney General. Their responsibly is to protect citizens from scams, fraud, etc. and businesses don't like to deal with them if there is possibly a conflict.
Excellent advice !!!
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
2,643
649
113
SE, IN
I'd suggest contacting your state's Attorney General. Their responsibly is to protect citizens from scams, fraud, etc. and businesses don't like to deal with them if there is possibly a conflict.
Agreed.

Dealer might get a letter from AG's office which could be influential.

Still, expect damages rather than specific performance.
 

Swamp

New member

Equipment
L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
22
20
3
Wisconsin
I can't disagree with anything anyone has said since I have never been through this before. The really big secondary problem is the fact that because of this dealer's promise I did not pursue purchasing a tractor anywhere else. That deprived me of an opportunity to own the tractor at a much lower price. The tractors were available at other dealers across the country. Not many, but several had one in stock. Now that this dealer has behaved illegally, I cannot buy this same tractor anywhere for the price that I could at the end of 2021. To me that is actual damages. I know a court won't see it that way, but between the lack of morality and principles displayed by the dealer and the added cost I'm a lot more than just pissed! Initial read by the attorney is that there is substance to my case. He apologized for the delay but should have a final opinion and letter drafted by later today. I also asked him about his firm contacting the States Attorney General. He said that will be the second option if the dealer stands his ground. As always there is really little way to prove maliciousness. Then again ignorance of the law is not a defense either.