2008 Kubota BX23 engine in BX25 Temp Gauge Stuck pinned HOT

North Idaho Wolfman

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You won't find that dash new, and you would be real lucky to find a good used dash.
 
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William1

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Hmmmmm spitballling here....
If you determined both sides (temp and fuel)have the same gear train, perhaps you can find a 'broken' panel that you could salvage from it to mix and match a set of working parts?
Looking at your picture, it looks like dirt/mud got in at some point and hopefully, that was the cause of the failure and will not happen again.
 
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pgrovetom

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Hmmmmm spitballling here....
If you determined both sides (temp and fuel)have the same gear train, perhaps you can find a 'broken' panel that you could salvage from it to mix and match a set of working parts?
Looking at your picture, it looks like dirt/mud got in at some point and hopefully, that was the cause of the failure and will not happen again.
I've scoured the Internet and its not available, new or used. Once I got inside, its pretty clean. I think I'll use plan B. Its not terribly difficult to use the varying voltage at the temperature sensor/sender and calibrating it so it drives a new $10 water gauge. I drew up a simple circuit. By adjusting the gain via the resistor values, the Kubota sensor voltage range from Hot to Cold can operate an auto water temperature gauge even though the sensor resistance range is different. If I use a waterproof gauge and mount it wherever makes sense, I now know my engine temperature. It would also be easy to light a light or buzz a buzzer when it got too hot.


Temp conversion circuit.jpg
Kubota BX25.jpg
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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I've scoured the Internet and its not available, new or used. Once I got inside, its pretty clean. I think I'll use plan B. Its not terribly difficult to use the varying voltage at the temperature sensor/sender and calibrating it so it drives a new $10 water gauge. I drew up a simple circuit. By adjusting the gain via the resistor values, the Kubota sensor voltage range from Hot to Cold can operate an auto water temperature gauge even though the sensor resistance range is different. If I use a waterproof gauge and mount it wherever makes sense, I now know my engine temperature. It would also be easy to light a light or buzz a buzzer when it got too hot.


View attachment 166062 View attachment 166063
You're overthinking it.
Just buy a gauge and sensor that match, no extra work involved.
 
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JRHill

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BTW to the OP, shutting the engine down on an engine that is heavily under load and overheating isn't necessarily a good thing to do. As long as the oil pressure is good you should immediately remove the load and keep the unit going at an elevated low idle and let the coolant continue to circulate. There are exceptions to this, of course.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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You're overthinking it.
Just buy a gauge and sensor that match, no extra work involved.
ahh there's NO fun in that !!!I'd replace the Kubota sensor with a DS18B20 temp sensor, feed into a PIC microcontroller and uses a 4x20 LCD display to show the temperature. Cost is maybe $20, take an evening to make, 20 minutes to program.
 
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armylifer

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I remember reading several years ago that one member replaced an older dash with a newer model dash because he liked the newer model gauges. IIRC, he changed a BXxx60 model to a BXxx70 model dash. I don't remember all the specifics but my question is; could you replace your whole dash with a newer model dash?
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I remember reading several years ago that one member replaced an older dash with a newer model dash because he liked the newer model gauges. IIRC, he changed a BXxx60 model to a BXxx70 model dash. I don't remember all the specifics but my question is; could you replace your whole dash with a newer model dash?
None of those dashes are available anymore.
 
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pgrovetom

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At the end of the day... this....
Yes. I am looking for a gauge sensor combo that fits the Kubota M10x1.25 inch sensor but that combo is also rare. When I compared the thread specs on the BX25 and the available sensors, they don't match all the sensors I was able to review. My conversion circuit is how I would allow the use of the Kubota sensor with a commercial auto/boat gauge if I can't find one that fits the threads.
 
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pgrovetom

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I remember reading several years ago that one member replaced an older dash with a newer model dash because he liked the newer model gauges. IIRC, he changed a BXxx60 model to a BXxx70 model dash. I don't remember all the specifics but my question is; could you replace your whole dash with a newer model dash?
I doubt any other dash is shaped such that it would fit. I also doubt the electrical interface is exact such all the functions work.

Gauges.jpg
 

pgrovetom

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ahh there's NO fun in that !!!I'd replace the Kubota sensor with a DS18B20 temp sensor, feed into a PIC microcontroller and uses a 4x20 LCD display to show the temperature. Cost is maybe $20, take an evening to make, 20 minutes to program.
That's one approach. That sensor cannot be adapted to the Kubota sensor threaded sensor. It also uses a non-waterproof LCD display. I've done Arduino projects but getting all the development stuff out of storage is a lot of effort when a simple one Op Amp circuit will do and I can buy a commercial $15 gauge that's waterproof that's used in boat applications. I've done both and bread-boarding an Op Amp and Kubota sensor and Ebay gauge is a lot faster. If I had my Arduino development software and kit out on my table, I would use a micro-controller even for my approach. All that is buried in storage and I'd have to relearn the whole process while bread-boarding an Op Amp would be going in an hour. My Kubota has taken many rainstorms and needs a waterproof solution.
 

GreensvilleJay

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I just use a properly sized bolt, drill 3/16" hole down the bolt head 'deep enough', 2 wires to DS unit,epoxy it in.wait a day to install.Never got into Arduinos...went with PICs during the 68HC11 debacle 4 decades ago.
I like the KISS approach though I'd have to dig to find my stash of 741 opamps , they have to be 1/2 century old now !!
 

pgrovetom

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I just use a properly sized bolt, drill 3/16" hole down the bolt head 'deep enough', 2 wires to DS unit,epoxy it in.wait a day to install.Never got into Arduinos...went with PICs during the 68HC11 debacle 4 decades ago.
I like the KISS approach though I'd have to dig to find my stash of 741 opamps , they have to be 1/2 century old now !!
Arduinos make it really easy. Free PC development tools and language. Free example code. Just about any board configuration you can dream of. But putting my development setup back up and running is a big chore. Building a simple Op Amp circuit with a soldering gun takes an hour and test it once I know the sensor voltage range and meter sensitivity. That's a few hours. Mounting this to the Kubota is a pain. I could hide a tiny LCD inside the gauge compartment itself. That gives me waterproof and where one usually looks. Its all a pain but I need to know the temperature. It scared me to death when I saw the meter pinned to hot.

I have a stash of 741 and a dozen other Op Amps, NPN and PNP transistors, resistors, capacitors, breadboards, Arduinos boards of all types and much more. The problem is its all in boxes and getting it out plus my Scope and meters, bread-boarding stuff, then soldering stuff for the final board, is a pain. Maybe just a cold, normal and hot LED will do inside the existing dash.

When I was young in 1970 I saw my Datsun meter pinned to hot and the rubber hose return from the engine to radiator had blown on the Freeway. It broke a rod and blew holes in both my head and block. Don't need that again.
 
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pgrovetom

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I just use a properly sized bolt, drill 3/16" hole down the bolt head 'deep enough', 2 wires to DS unit,epoxy it in.wait a day to install.Never got into Arduinos...went with PICs during the 68HC11 debacle 4 decades ago.
I like the KISS approach though I'd have to dig to find my stash of 741 opamps , they have to be 1/2 century old now !!
Its rather tricky. The 10x1.25 hole in the head is about 3/8 but metric. So its not practical to drill a hole in a 10x1.25 bolt thats so small at 6.5mm. If it was a much larger threaded hole in the block, a threaded adapter bushing could be used to go from large to small. But the other way around doesn't work since the sensor heat probe is too large in diameter.

" An M10x1.25 is a metric fastener with a 10mm nominal diameter and a 1.25mm thread pitch. There is no direct inch equivalent, but a comparable American standard is the 3/8-20 UNF (Unified National Fine) thread".

Equivalent isn't good enough when the coolant is under pressure. It would need some kind of sealant. But its so small in diameter that getting any larger sensor to work would be rough. I'm just thinking about how to make a mechanical adapter but small to large diameter just is backwards. Its tricky if the Kubota 10x1.25 isn't used and its lower resistance range adapted to higher resistance range automobile common gauges.
 

William1

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Yes. I am looking for a gauge sensor combo that fits the Kubota M10x1.25 inch sensor but that combo is also rare. When I compared the thread specs on the BX25 and the available sensors, they don't match all the sensors I was able to review. My conversion circuit is how I would allow the use of the Kubota sensor with a commercial auto/boat gauge if I can't find one that fits the threads.
I was thinking..... If you could find a 'dead board' with still good gears, you could swap them in.

Failing that, any sensor of the correct threads and mated with an off the shelf gauge would work fine (as Wolfman suggested). Most gauges read a resistance at the sensor (fairly standardized as well). KISS principle.
Sensors? That thread and pitch is common, for example, Trail Tech sells them amount 1,000 other companies.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Its rather tricky. The 10x1.25 hole in the head is about 3/8 but metric. So its not practical to drill a hole in a 10x1.25 bolt thats so small at 6.5mm. If it was a much larger threaded hole in the block, a threaded adapter bushing could be used to go from large to small. But the other way around doesn't work since the sensor heat probe is too large in diameter.

" An M10x1.25 is a metric fastener with a 10mm nominal diameter and a 1.25mm thread pitch. There is no direct inch equivalent, but a comparable American standard is the 3/8-20 UNF (Unified National Fine) thread".

Equivalent isn't good enough when the coolant is under pressure. It would need some kind of sealant. But its so small in diameter that getting any larger sensor to work would be rough. I'm just thinking about how to make a mechanical adapter but small to large diameter just is backwards. Its tricky if the Kubota 10x1.25 isn't used and its lower resistance range adapted to higher resistance range automobile common gauges.
The thread in the head is BSPP (if there is a sealing gasket) or BSPT of there is not.
A metric ton of standard generic sensors fit that hole size.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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curious( hay it's SNOWING here...) ... found this
dang $5 is a GREAT deal for a waterproof box, that could hold display and micro !

they also have nice anodized aluminum rad hose /sensor pipes for about $10 .
just looking at options...... though KISS works for me as well
 

pgrovetom

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You won't find that dash new, and you would be real lucky to find a good used dash.
That's exactly what I found. Kubota only used that dash for the first few years on the BX25 and a few other tractors. Then they switched to a much nicer dash. So there is only a few years of Kubota tractors in existence with that exact dash. I spoke with Messicks and another Georgia Kubota parts supplier and they told me none existed. I found 2 non-Kubota approved parts suppliers and both said they had doubled the price to >$850 but had no more in stock due to age and none known to exist. There is probably an old broken down Kubota from 2008 with a used dash somewhere, but finding it is impossible if they don't advertise. I found some used Kubota parts dealers and nobody had that dash. This is why I'm looking for alternative ways to either use an adapted 10x1.25 sensor/gauge for a a boat/auto or just use a circuit to adapt the Kubota 10x1.25 sensor and be done with the "getting a new one" strategy. I've ordered some temp gauges that are 1/8NPT and a 10x1.25 male to 1/8NPT female adapter bushings or I can just take the Kubota sensor voltage and adapt it to any meter with a simple Op Amp circuit. Then I need a nice watertight box and a place to mount it. Never thought it would be so messy but - it is!
 
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pgrovetom

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BTW to the OP, shutting the engine down on an engine that is heavily under load and overheating isn't necessarily a good thing to do. As long as the oil pressure is good you should immediately remove the load and keep the unit going at an elevated low idle and let the coolant continue to circulate. There are exceptions to this, of course.
Yea but my first instinct when I see hot and don't know how long, is shut it off. I failed to do this when I was young and overheated a Datsun and a rod broke and the rod went through the block side and the piston blew a hole in the head - Total loss. That's maybe where my instinct comes from. In this case, it was only the gauge so no harm no foul. Turns out everything was normal except the gauge.