Dealer gripe

Daren Todd · Jan 25, 2020

This isn't about the local bota dealer so hence the off topic

A while back my 09 1500 Sierra developed a small oil leak. It was losing about 1 quart every 2000 miles. Not a big deal. More of a nuisance then than anything. Leak was on the back side of the engine and running on top of the transmission. Oil actually wasn't hitting the ground so it wasn't till I checked the oil level a few separate times that I realized it was either a small leak or burning it.

Anyway, I investigated as much as I could and that's when I found the top of the transmission wet with oil. But with the truck being a 4wd with low profile suspension (same height as a 2wd), plus skid plates, I couldn't get where I needed to to see where the leak was coming from.

Fast forward to the next oil change, I took the truck to the local GMC dealer. Asked them to check out the leak while they had it on the lift. They actually allowed me into the shop to verify where the leak was coming from. And while in there the tech pointed out a few other issues. Upper control arms, leaky axle seal, oil pan gasket, and the lines running to the oil cooler. Tires, and an alignment.

Now the tires and alignment were obvious and was something I was also planning on addressing anyway. And i new that there was an underlying cause for the alignment.

So at this point I was really happy still, and had already planned on having to put some money into the truck since it's older with high mileage.

I drop the truck off, and tell the service manager to go ahead and swap out the oil filter when they replace the oil pan gasket since they are draining the oil anyway. He said no problem, that was the plan anyway. They do the work which turned out to be an oil change, oil pan gasket, oil lines to the oil cooler, upper control arms and bushings, rear axle seals and fluid, as well as new back brakes. I picked the truck up and had new tires put on it, then take it back and have a 4 wheel alignment done.

Even though I'm out $4,000 for the repair and tires, I'm actually happy. Now here's where me beef with the dealer came in

Fast forward to 4,300 miles after the repairs. My oil pressure drops about 10psi from 30psi warm at an idle down to 20 psi at an idle.

Cruising down the highway with rpms at 2k the pressure was reading about 40 psi, but now is sitting around 32. This sets off some warning bells. I thinking probably the oil sending unit is going out as a best case scenario. But for giggles I decide to go ahead and have the oil changed. I use a local speedy lube place, full synthetic, with pennzoil oil filter. But the past two changes were done by the dealer, with the second oil change only at 3500 miles.

After the oil change, my oil pressure is back where it should be. Running around 50 under acceleration, 40 maintaining speed on the flats and around 30 to 35 at idle and warm.

So my beef with the dealer is one of few things. Either their oil filters they use are garbage and collapsed at 4300 miles. Or the tech didn't change out the oil filter and the filter actually had 7800 miles on it and it collapsed. Or the tech didn't clean the oil pan before reinstalling and got some crud into the oil filter causing it to collapse.

GreensvilleJay · Jan 25, 2020

Maybe the dealer used different 'weight' or mfr of oil for the 'low oil pressure' oil change ? I know first hand to NOT run 5W30 in an engine spec'd for SAE30 !
It'd be easy for the 'grease monkey' to just grab the wrong hose and give you the wrong oil.....

Daren Todd · Jan 25, 2020

GreensvilleJay said:
Maybe the dealer used different 'weight' or mfr of oil for the 'low oil pressure' oil change ? I know first hand to NOT run 5W30 in an engine spec'd for SAE30 !
It'd be easy for the 'grease monkey' to just grab the wrong hose and give you the wrong oil.....

You would think if it was a different weight, the issue would have shown up sooner

I checked out a bunch of different forums on the subject. The two most common causes were the oil filter collapsing, and apparently there is a screen under the oil pressure sending unit that clogs up. Followed by major engine repair

After just dropping $4,000 into the truck a couple months back it had me pretty nervous

I'm glad the oil change took care of it. The sending unit is inside the air intake on top of the engine. Sending unit was $45 at O'rileys, or $96 from the dealer. The air intake would have taken me a bit to get into. There was one quick connect style that needed to be disconnected that I've never seen and didn't have a clue how it came apart. Plus some fuel lines that needed to be disconnected to get the cover off to get to the sending unit. I saw a potential of a rough afternoon. Cheapest price I got from a shop to replace it was over $500 due to labor.

On the newer 5.3 engines it looks like they moved the location to in front of the air intake. So all you needed was a deep well socket, swivel, and extension.

lugbolt · Jan 25, 2020

Daren Todd said:
1500 Sierra

You'd be surprised how many times I hear of engine issues out of those and their chevrolet brothers. Entirely too often.

Fordtech86 · Jan 25, 2020

Daren Todd said:
You would think if it was a different weight, the issue would have shown up sooner

I checked out a bunch of different forums on the subject. The two most common causes were the oil filter collapsing, and apparently there is a screen under the oil pressure sending unit that clogs up. Followed by major engine repair After just dropping $4,000 into the truck a couple months back it had me pretty nervous

I'm glad the oil change took care of it. The sending unit is inside the air intake on top of the engine. Sending unit was $45 at O'rileys, or $96 from the dealer. The air intake would have taken me a bit to get into. There was one quick connect style that needed to be disconnected that I've never seen and didn't have a clue how it came apart. Plus some fuel lines that needed to be disconnected to get the cover off to get to the sending unit. I saw a potential of a rough afternoon. Cheapest price I got from a shop to replace it was over $500 due to labor.

On the newer 5.3 engines it looks like they moved the location to in front of the air intake. So all you needed was a deep well socket, swivel, and extension.

Been a minute since I have worked on a 5.3, but the older ones had the oil sender at the back of the block. I cant see an oil sender under the intake?? And in your first post you said oil leaking on top of the transmission?? How the oil pan leaking going to get up there?

Daren Todd · Jan 25, 2020

Where I could get under the truck was about halfway down the transmission. It was on top of it where it narrows down.

When we got it on the lift at the dealership where I could actually see in there, it was coming from the oil pan gasket, then ran along the side of the transmission along one of the ribs to the top of the transmission where it narrowed.

I looked back at a video and see what you were talking about on the pressure switch. Found a diagram online from auto zone and the diagram showed it on the front side of the block being accessed through the air intake. Video showed it being on the back of the engine.

Looks like that diagram would have sent be down the wrong rabbit hole

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KennysNewFarm · Jan 25, 2020

Before jumping into conclusions about your dealer let me give you some food for thought. First a good running motor will run 10 PSI oil pressure per 1,000 RPM. Second the oil filter that your upset about might actually be the crap that causes your motor to fail.

Prime example a Fram Oil Filter on my 2009 GMC kept my oil pressure at 40-50 all the time whether sitting at idle or down the highway, what you do not realize is that the filter is so crappy that the bypass safety lifts and bypasses the filter media causing the always accurate 40 PSI. I changed it out to wix and the oil pressure actually changed based on RPMS. The oil was not as black upon changing it and the motor noises seemed to be less than I remembered.

On my 67 Camaro I also ran Fram at first then changed to Wix. At 800 RPM it runs at 10 PSI with a fresh overhaul. At 5000 RPM I am at 50. If I were you I would look into you tube videos on oil filter comparisons and oil comparisons. They put all the oil in the freezer, the Walmart brand is still stuck. So yes you get what you pay for. Also for motor heads if your running old school cams the motor oil companies removed zinc additives from their oil causing flat cams. I run the green oil, Brad Penn, as it does have it and I can buy it for $70 a case.

KennysNewFarm · Jan 25, 2020

Fordtech86 said:
Been a minute since I have worked on a 5.3, but the older ones had the oil sender at the back of the block. I cant see an oil sender under the intake?? And in your first post you said oil leaking on top of the transmission?? How the oil pan leaking going to get up there?

Rear Main Seal

Daren Todd · Jan 26, 2020

KennysNewFarm said:
Before jumping into conclusions about your dealer let me give you some food for thought. First a good running motor will run 10 PSI oil pressure per 1,000 RPM. Second the oil filter that your upset about might actually be the crap that causes your motor to fail.

Prime example a Fram Oil Filter on my 2009 GMC kept my oil pressure at 40-50 all the time whether sitting at idle or down the highway, what you do not realize is that the filter is so crappy that the bypass safety lifts and bypasses the filter media causing the always accurate 40 PSI. I changed it out to wix and the oil pressure actually changed based on RPMS. The oil was not as black upon changing it and the motor noises seemed to be less than I remembered.

On my 67 Camaro I also ran Fram at first then changed to Wix. At 800 RPM it runs at 10 PSI with a fresh overhaul. At 5000 RPM I am at 50. If I were you I would look into you tube videos on oil filter comparisons and oil comparisons. They put all the oil in the freezer, the Walmart brand is still stuck. So yes you get what you pay for. Also for motor heads if your running old school cams the motor oil companies removed zinc additives from their oil causing flat cams. I run the green oil, Brad Penn, as it does have it and I can buy it for $70 a case.

That was actually the bases of my gripe. My oil pressure normally since I've owned the truck (5 years) with the engine warm would sit at around 30 psi at idle, around 40 psi at steady rpm down the road and go between 45 and 50 psi if I put my foot into the throttle.

Cold it would sit at about 40 psi on initial start up up to 55 psi with your foot into the throttle.

At 4300 miles after the new gasket, lines and oil change from dealer the oil pressure went from the normal operation range to 20 psi at warm idle. 38 psi when I had my foot into the gas, and around 30 psi cruising across the flats just maintaining speed.

After a fresh oil and filter change everything is back to normal

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RCW · Jan 26, 2020

Daren -

I've never gotten anything from dealer-service except frustration....

I do take our cars/trucks in to dealer for warranty/recall work, but almost nothing else. Goes all the way back to owning a Datsun pickup. Ford, Chevy, Mopar...no diff...

In last 20+ years, we've bought 12 new vehicles from the same small dealership. It's been sold now, but I used to have the owner's cell #. Still don't go back them unless necessary.

Given our rural area, I know several independent shops, owners, and mechanics well. I kind of have the run of the places; I always hang out in the shop with the "guys." But that's unusual in this day and age, and it's access I have that most other customers do not.

I know dealer-service should be the best. But to that dealer, I'm only one of 50 work orders/tickets that day. He doesn't know me, my wife and kids, etc., that make him want to got the extra mile. I'm also not standing right there talking to the Tech about cutting firewood or the camping trip he and his family took the week before....

Again, my experience is a little different, but I like it.

(Fordtech - - this is where you jump in my shyt...

)

KennysNewFarm · Jan 26, 2020

Daren Todd said:
That was actually the bases of my gripe. My oil pressure normally since I've owned the truck (5 years) with the engine warm would sit at around 30 psi at idle, around 40 psi at steady rpm down the road and go between 45 and 50 psi if I put my foot into the throttle.

Cold it would sit at about 40 psi on initial start up up to 55 psi with your foot into the throttle.

At 4300 miles after the new gasket, lines and oil change from dealer the oil pressure went from the normal operation range to 20 psi at warm idle. 38 psi when I had my foot into the gas, and around 30 psi cruising across the flats just maintaining speed.

After a fresh oil and filter change everything is back to normal

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I gotcha I missed the part of the different pressures. I thought you only were seeing one constant pressure cold, warm, low idle, or high rpm. My bad. Well hopefully all is good. Still stay away from Fram Filters anyway!

Fordtech86 · Jan 26, 2020

RCW said:
(Fordtech - - this is where you jump in my shyt... )

I can’t argue you with you. I started to ramble on but stopped myself lol.

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Daren Todd · Jan 26, 2020

KennysNewFarm said:
I gotcha I missed the part of the different pressures. I thought you only were seeing one constant pressure cold, warm, low idle, or high rpm. My bad. Well hopefully all is good. It stay away from Fram Filters!

I've never been a fan of fram filters. Beside the dealer doing the two oil changes, I've always done the pennzoil platinum changes. It's pennzoil full synthetic oil and a pennzoil oil filter on my vehicles. And have had really good luck with it.

It's an option at the speedi lube place we use as well walmart.

I didnt really care on the filter as long as it wasn't a fram filter. But did want full synthetic oil. It works out good though for consistency.

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Daren Todd · Jan 26, 2020

RCW - It's hard for me to get access to the mom and pop shops since they moved my work to Little Rock.

What was a 20 minute trip on my lunch break to drop off a vehicle would take 2 hours now

All the mom and pop shops are only open Monday thru friday and not getting back to the area till around 5pm pretty much puts that one out. Where as the dealer has saturday hours from 8-3 so at least I can get it on a lift and a chance to have the tech walk me through what they found so I can make an informed decision.

Now if the kubota dealer could get my PTO switch in for my zero turn, I will be really happy [emoji14]

kubota has had my zero turn twice now this winter. First time was for recalls. Then had to take it back do to it shutting down when the parking brake was set and getting off the seat. They narrowed it down to the PTO switch, but are not sure when the part is coming in. Apparently kubota has cut back on there communication with their dealers about parts availability and when to expect their orders to be filled.

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RCW · Jan 26, 2020

Daren Todd said:
RCW - It's hard for me to get access to the mom and pop shops since they moved my work to Little Rock.

What was a 20 minute trip on my lunch break to drop off a vehicle would take 2 hours now

Certainly understandable. Like I said, it's okay for me now, but more the exception than the rule....

Tooljunkie · Feb 5, 2020

I pulled the intake on a 08 5.3. It took like 30 minutes.
The valley cover was leaking.engine was rebuilt or replaced a few years prior.
Every single bolt holding valley cover was loose. I mean finger tight loose. Was a cheap fix for customer.
Back of engine on newer models with variable displacement engines have a screen in the valve that controls the cylinder shutdown. They plug.

The new gm filters may not have a pressure relief, and tech likely left filter on.
It plugged. Aparrently they redesigned filter a while back to accommodate synthetic oil. My guess is no pressure relief and a different filter media.
Dealers are only as good as their techs.

D2Cat · Feb 5, 2020

Daren, you better get that zero turn back to working order! Won't be long before the grass is green.

Better go back in there and talk to that tech. Maybe he can build a fire under the parts dept? I think he might be a lot better then the average bear, trust him!

Daren Todd · Feb 5, 2020

D2Cat said:
Daren, you better get that zero turn back to working order! Won't be long before the grass is green.

Better go back in there and talk to that tech. Maybe he can build a fire under the parts dept? I think he might be a lot better then the average bear, trust him!

Parts on back order

Just called yesterday. They have no idea of an estimated ship date for the part.

Didn't think to ask if they relocated the zero turn to their new location or if it's still at the old shop.

Threw me off yesterday about the name change. Thought google got me with an advertised sponsor instead of the mom and pop dealer I was looking up the number for. Didn't know they got bought out a couple years ago. They decided once they were moving to the new location to incorporate the name change.

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Fordtech86 · Feb 5, 2020

Daren Todd said:
Parts on back order Just called yesterday. They have no idea of an estimated ship date for the part.

Didn't think to ask if they relocated the zero turn to their new location or if it's still at the old shop.

Threw me off yesterday about the name change. Thought google got me with an advertised sponsor instead of the mom and pop dealer I was looking up the number for. Didn't know they got bought out a couple years ago. They decided once they were moving to the new location to incorporate the name change.

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Been crazy busy here and haven’t kept up a whole lot on here (not that I have a whole lot to contribute) but how long have you been waiting for a back ordered part? We have been having trouble on our side too getting parts, and I recently got an email from Mazda about suspending parts being shipped out of China due to the coronavirus.

Daren Todd · Feb 5, 2020

Fordtech86 said:
Been crazy busy here and haven’t kept up a whole lot on here (not that I have a whole lot to contribute) but how long have you been waiting for a back ordered part? We have been having trouble on our side too getting parts, and I recently got an email from Mazda about suspending parts being shipped out of China due to the coronavirus.

Kubota has had my zero turn for about 4 weeks so far. They aren't sure when the part is gonna be in. I'm not sure which they are waiting on.

I originally put it in for some recalls. Which 3 of them were on safety switches for the seat/ parking brake/ neutral switches for go arms.

Got it back and then couldn't get off it without it shutting down while parking brake was engaged. Issue started out intermittent then got worse over the hour I ran it.

That's when it went back to the dealer. Was told last week they were waiting on the PTO switch but not sure when it was gonna ship.

Then this week they said its possibly the brake switch but not sure. The part they ordered was on back order

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