BX2200 starts in gear

beex · Nov 26, 2019

According to the bx2230 wiring diagram, you have the wrong neutral switch, or it’s installed incorrectly. The switch should be closed when in neutral but your symptoms say it’s closed when in gear.

2 symptoms which are consistent with that statement.

1) it starts in gear and not in neutral, the only 2 switches in the starter circuit is the neutral and pto switches.

2) dealer said he had to move the wires to start.

To test this theory, try another experiment. When the timer yellow terminal 20 loses power, the time fires shutting fuel off for 6-8 seconds, then the timer expires and the solenoid is released and fuel is turned back on. So flip the seat up, put rear PTO on, put it in gear start it. Then while running put in neutral, if it shuts off, theory is confirmed.

If this doesn’t confirm the theory, it could be the neutral switch isn’t consistent in the 2 sided switch. Depressed one side is open the other is closed and released, the opposite happens.

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Skip G · Nov 26, 2019

The plot thickens, I'm really confused now.
I now have the NSS wired correctly. The tractor starts in neutral, but not in gear.
However this is what it's doing now.
The tractor will turn off in neutral when off the seat, but will continue to run in gear when I'm off the seat. ( this is the condition the tractor was originally in when I got it back from the shop )
I then put the tractor in neutral while I'm off the seat, and the tractor will start without either seat switch being closed, however when I turn the tractor off, the tractor will continue to run .
( this is why the shop changed the wires in the first place. )
I have to manually shut it off with the lever killing the fuel.
Is it possibly the timer relay or one of the tow solenoids ?
Thoughts

beex · Nov 26, 2019

Skip G said:
The plot thickens, I'm really confused now.

I now have the NSS wired correctly. The tractor starts in neutral, but not in gear.

However this is what it's doing now.

The tractor will turn off in neutral when off the seat, but will continue to run in gear when I'm off the seat. ( this is the condition the tractor was originally in when I got it back from the shop )

I then put the tractor in neutral while I'm off the seat, and the tractor will start without either seat switch being closed, however when I turn the tractor off, the tractor will continue to run .

( this is why the shop changed the wires in the first place. )

I have to manually shut it off with the lever killing the fuel.

Is it possibly the timer relay or one of the tow solenoids ?

Thoughts

yes, that’s the symptom I was predicting, the neutral switch is open in neutral and closed when in gear, my theory is you have to manually shutdown because the timer already fired and ran out when you put it in neutral and “thinks” the tractor is shut down. the seat switch is not in the starter circuit, so startup isn’t affected by the seat.

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beex · Nov 26, 2019

also, the neutral safety switch is the thing that was replaced, so most likely the thing that’s wrong here.

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eserv · Nov 26, 2019

Skip G said:
The plot thickens, I'm really confused now.
I now have the NSS wired correctly. The tractor starts in neutral, but not in gear.
However this is what it's doing now.
The tractor will turn off in neutral when off the seat, but will continue to run in gear when I'm off the seat. ( this is the condition the tractor was originally in when I got it back from the shop )
I then put the tractor in neutral while I'm off the seat, and the tractor will start without either seat switch being closed, however when I turn the tractor off, the tractor will continue to run .
( this is why the shop changed the wires in the first place. )
I have to manually shut it off with the lever killing the fuel.
Is it possibly the timer relay or one of the tow solenoids ?
Thoughts

Interestingly here is a thread that includes a different wiring diagram than the one in my "official" Kubota manual! https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14541

Skip G · Nov 26, 2019

I don't think that's quite right, as I said, the NSS is now wired correctly
With the lever in neutral, the switch is closed and has continuity & the tractor starts. That's how it should be, but then, again, the tractor stays running in gear when I get off the seat.
What doesn't make sense is that it shuts off in neutral when I get off the seat.
and that I can then start it in neutral with the seat switch open & then not be able to shut off.
Something is way out of whack.

North Idaho Wolfman · Nov 27, 2019

Skip G,
Help us to help you get to the bottom of the problem.

#1: Give us the serial number of the tractor so we can look it up via Kubota to make sure we are addressing the right tractor model and submodel or variation of these models.
#2: Do you have any paperwork on the switch that they installed, like a part number?

It's really sounding like you have the wrong switch for the NSS, which will cause you all kinds of grief and mis wiring.

Skip G · Nov 27, 2019

I'm attaching picture of serial plate & checking with shop to see what part # they ordered. Not sure how switch could be wrong, it's a switch, so it's either off or on, but I'll get the info.

Skip G · Nov 27, 2019

Neutral safety switch part # from Kubota dealer K1122-62250

beex · Nov 27, 2019

Ok, going to try this again another way. Everything happens at the yellow wire on the timer module. Assuming the wiring wasn’t modified here too. When this wire transitions from hot to cold, the timer fires shutting off the fuel.

Put a volt meter on that wire at the time module to figure out what’s going on.

Assuming your tractor has the wiring of the 2230 above (good assumption because you have the seat switch in the timer module circuit and the older 2200 doesn’t) this is how it works.

There are 3 parallel circuits to that wire.

1) on switch to seat to timer, this works, when you get off seat it shuts off,

2) on switch to seat flip switch to rear pto to neutral switch. don’t know how this behaves, was reported.

3) on switch, pto clutch switch to neutral switch, this is the circuit we’re trying to diagnose.

So with no one on the seat, and the seat not flipped forward, circuits 1 and 2 are out of the picture. So with the switch on, pto off, and in neutral, check the voltage on the yellow wire , it should be hot. If it is not , put it in gear, if it is now hot, the neutral switch isn’t working correctly.

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Skip G · Nov 27, 2019

The switch currently installed is as follows
Continuity in neutral across BW & W wires, open across Y & blue
Open in neutral across BW & W wires, continuity in high or low range across Y & blue.

beex · Nov 27, 2019

Skip G said:
The switch currently installed is as follows

Continuity in neutral across BW & W wires, open across Y & blue

Open in neutral across BW & W wires, continuity in high or low range across Y & blue.

The switch on the yellow - blue wire is working backwards.

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beex · Nov 27, 2019

put a jumper wire from yellow to blue and your tractor off switch will probably start working again.

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Skip G · Nov 27, 2019

I'm sorry to be contrary to your last statement, but when the blue & Y wires were on the other side of the switch, the tractor started in gear.
This is what ESERV said early in the thread, & I believe he's correct.

eserv said:
So it starts when the switch isn't depressed and won't start if it is? if it is a 4 terminal switch it has two sets of contacts. one set will be closed when the other set is open. The wires that go from the switch to the starter must be connected to the set that is closed when the switch is depressed.

beex · Nov 27, 2019

Skip G said:
I'm sorry to be contrary to your last statement, but when the blue & Y wires were on the other side of the switch, the tractor started in gear.

This is what ESERV said early in the thread, & I believe he's correct.

Yes I agree with his statement. that is the starter circuit he is referring too.

According to the diagram, both switches need to be closed when in neutral, and you have one switch open and one closed when in neutral.

So with your switch, you can either make the starter circuit work correctly, or the fuel cutoff work correctly, not both.

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Skip G · Nov 27, 2019

OK, I think you're right, & I think I have this figured out.
In looking at the schematic for the 2230 ( assuming this is the right drawing for the tractor model I have, which I think it is ) both sets of wires in the NSS need to have continuity at the same time to make everything work properly. If this is the case, then the NSS they installed is the wrong one, because only one set of wires make contact depending upon where the gear selector lever is.
Do you agree ?
Now I have to get them to figure out which is the correct switch.
Thanks for your help.

beex · Nov 27, 2019

Skip G said:
OK, I think you're right, & I think I have this figured out.

In looking at the schematic for the 2230 ( assuming this is the right drawing for the tractor model I have, which I think it is ) both sets of wires in the NSS need to have continuity at the same time to make everything work properly. If this is the case, then the NSS they installed is the wrong one, because only one set of wires make contact depending upon where the gear selector lever is.

Do you agree ?

Now I have to get them to figure out which is the correct switch.

Thanks for your help.

yes, agree, but what we don’t know is if your switch is defective or the wrong part.

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beex · Nov 27, 2019

the part number you listed, K1122-62250, is the correct number, are you sure that’s what you got?

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North Idaho Wolfman · Nov 27, 2019

The part # K1122-62250 is the right switch if it has BX2230 wiring.

There is a second switch on the left rear that is the same switch, you could verify operation of the switch off of that switch, and that's also assuming there is nothing wrong with that switch.

You've moved the wires around to try and make it work, I might suggest moving them back to there original stock position, and trouble shoot from there.

We need the tractor serial number not the motor serial number.

Skip G · Nov 27, 2019

Bx2200d
5h767

BX2200 starts in gear

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