Site Update, Q&A

Mr. K

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 14, 2009
522
138
43
www.orangetractortalks.com
Hey everyone, Mr. K here, your friendly site administrator! Some of you might not know me, that's ok. I tend to lurk in the background popping up only now and then when needed. Myself and Service Department Vic launched OrangeTractorTalks more than 10 years ago, writing articles and creating videos so that Kubota equipment owners would have a place on the internet to call their own.

North Idaho Wolfman reached out to me recently pointing out a few threads on the site with questions, concerns and suggestions for how to make the site better. Thought I would put a new thread together to help answer some questions, get feedback from our community members that can be used to plan site improvements, make updates and overall, make the site better suited for our regular and new visitors alike.

First, I want to thank everyone who takes time out of their day to visit the site, post questions and post answers to questions that are detailed, specific and helpful to others - that's so important. Our mission on OrangeTractorTalks today remains the same as when we started more than 10 years ago. We wanted a site where visitors can get information that will help them better understand how to purchase, operate, maintain or service their Kubota equipment. I am amazed at the number of visitors the site sees everyday and it is all in part to the time and energy our community members put into helping one another. It's great to see and help facilitate.

Second, I want to thank North Idaho Wolfman and coachgeo for tirelessly moderating the site for years. These are unpaid positions that I recognize are thankless at times - having to deal with spammers, account registration issues, thread moderation, and keeping the peace on the site. They have both done a tremendous job of keeping the site healthy, the community engaged and staying on top of the day-to-day. We salute them!

Third, I apologize that I myself have not had a lot of time lately to dedicate to the site, whether that be to update new article content (in the last 8 years!) or to upgrade the forum software as times change and more and more visitors are expecting a native mobile experience. We should be sending out decals to lifetime members but have fallen well behind - we need to do a better job and we need to catch up. Lots of things to improve upon and more on this below.

Wanted to address some specific issues I've seen come up recently.

Q1: If you run out of money or have no advertisers, will you shutdown the site?
No. The plan is to continue to run the site, even at a loss if necessary. There is no scenario where if revenue falls below $X we would turn the site off. If there is someone that can be helped with the content on the site, we'll keep the lights on for them. We're not in it for the money.

Q2: Are you planning on selling the site?
Although we periodically receive offers to sell the site, there is no plans at this time to entertain offers. We have seen what happens when forums are integrated into larger corporate site portfolios and do not believe our community would thrive and be well looked after under corporate management.

Q3: What is the plan to upgrade the site software?
This has been a consideration for some time. When we started the site in 2009, smartphones were starting to take off. Websites were not optimized for mobile experiences or responsive to them yet (eg. one version of the site when viewed on a desktop, another look for mobile devices). Now, of course mobile devices are everywhere and our forum software has not kept up with that trend. The forum design, look, feel, features are now a little dated, and certainly not mobile friendly. The site is overdue for an upgrade, agreed.

There are newer versions of the forum software OrangeTractorTalks uses, that other sites have upgraded to. The reaction from those communities after updating varies from great to very bad. Some communities adjusted to the upgrades well, embracing new features and being okay with loved older features being lost. Other online communities have not reacted well when forum software is updated. Instead, those communities experience sharp declines in visitor traffic which impacts the rate of new content, further snowballing into the decline. Not good.

For OrangeTractorTalks there are a handful of pathways forward that we are considering:

1) Keep the site as-is. This comes with the benefit that you know what to expect, you know how to navigate around, but over time, the experience will get worse for new visitors who are on their mobile devices, not browsing from a desktop at home. We can only do this for so long because eventually the underlying software that supports the site will no longer be supported by hosting providers. This is still some time out though.

2) Upgrade to a newer version of the same site software. New features will become available, better support for mobile, some existing features will be lost, and there will be an adjustment period where some of the kinks will need to be worked out. It will feel similar but not quite the same. The transition will not be 100% smooth.

3) Switch over to entirely different forum software all together. Similar pros and cons to #2, but with different features depending on the forum software. The transition will be a bit more abrupt since it's different forum software, but the content would remain.

This is a good topic of discussion that we would like more feedback from the community on (post below what your thoughts are).

Q4: I signed up for a Lifetime Membership, why haven't I received my decals yet?
This one is on us, me specifically. Just not enough time in the day to catch up with the incoming volume of new memberships. The good news is that NIW has offered to help with getting some of them sent out so I think what we'll do in the near future is get addresses pulled together and then double-team catching up on the backlog. Look for a thread on this topic soon where you'll be asked to send in a mailing address so that we can finally get these sent out to you.

Q5: There is spam/spammers on the site, are you doing anything to stop it?
Actually, yes. The bulk of efforts in the last year have been to curtail spam and spammers and for the most part those measures have been effective. There is no one solution that is water tight however and eventually spammers figure out ways past the automated checks, into the site. The site pays an annual subscription to a service that helps identify spam registrations, thread and post submissions.

Q6: Sometimes the site is slow, are you doing anything to fix that?
Long-time OTT members will know this has been a constant battle. As the site has grown we have upgraded server hardware configurations a few times. The last was about two years ago and it's looking like another upgrade might not be far off since we are beginning to exceed what we can do with software configuration changes alone. At some point, the server just needs more memory or a faster CPU/more threads to process incoming requests. If you do see slowness or odd behavior, PM me some details including time of day, the browser you were using, any error messages, and relevant details. That can help us identify what might have been going on when inspecting the logs.

Q7: I have some suggestions, how do I get those to you?
Great! Let's make the site better. You can either PM them to me and we can take a look or post them in a public thread and ask the community for feedback too. Posting publicly has the benefit that we can understand how your suggested changes might impact the wider community as a whole which is always a consideration when we make site updates.

Q8: How can I help?
Just coming online and visiting OrangeTractorTalks is a great start! Posting questions or helping others with answers to theirs is a bonus. You are of course never obligated to subscribe to memberships, but if you do, know that the money is put toward server hosting fees, bandwidth, backups, license fees and subscriptions that we pay annually in service to the community members.

Those are some of the big topics I think came up recently. I'll open the thread up to comments and general Q&A from this point. Happy to get feedback and answer any questions you might have. As always, thank you for taking time out of your day to visit OrangeTractorTalks!
 

NHSleddog

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650
Dec 19, 2019
2,149
1,822
113
Southern, NH
Thank you for moving this forward.

Sticking with the same software vBulletin will be much easier for the upgrade and usernames and passwords would come along as well. I am not sure if this old version encrypted passwords in the DB, if so, that is usually an issue upgrading.

Switching platforms also almost always creates problems with the URL's and in this case that would be a huge hit in google. Generally speaking the URL's are a query string that the server or software translate into the nice word string you see in the address bar. Every app does it their own way. Where this site actually has 10 year old links that are still very valuable to this day you would want to guarantee the upgrade maintained the URL structure EXACTLY.

I vote upgrade and get current. A new button or method is nothing to fear.

We upgrade systems all the time, it is usually more an attitude of the users than the actual upgrades. Instead of fearing the change, look forward to it. This way when you run into a new button it will be expected rather than another reason to complain.
 
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SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,197
546
83
USA
Being ancient myself, it's basically all good with me except for one thing and that is, when a poster posts a picture from their mobile phone, the site will not automatically resize it, so the thread becomes very hard to look at and pictures take up the entire screen. It only seems to happen when the posters is using tap-a-talk, which I don't

I don't bother reading or commenting on them because soon as I click on one, the post window opens up to full screen and I know right then what the content is and skip that thread entirely.

The site really need an automatic picture resize. I read that people have issues uploading photo's. I don't and never have but I follow the protocol and upload my pictures through your uploader. Always works just fine for me and I never do any links.

I have a distinct dislike for cell phones anyway. I have one but it's for communications only, not a picture taker, but then I'm probably the odd man out.
 

D2Cat

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
12,901
4,268
113
40 miles south of Kansas City
Mr K, thanks for this thread and the opportunity to communicate directly.

I think North Idaho Wolfman has done, and is doing, an excellent job with moderating. He obviously enjoys problem solving and helping others. A few years back I was resurrecting a burnt L305 and was needing some help. When searching the internet I landed on this site. He was the one who answered!

Since he's been in the process of building a home, and doing all the work himself, I often wonder if at some point he no longer has time to moderate, or just gets burnt out. His complete answers, especially with hydraulics, is vital to the forum. I'd suggest adding a couple moderators.

I use a desktop with windows 10, Firefox. When I take pictures on my cell phone I load them onto my hard drive. Lately when I try to upload a picture to the forum I get the message, "uploading files-please wait". I see a window that reads, "sending request to OTT.com". Nothing happens. I can wait several minutes, still nothing. Can't upload pictures at all, even older pictures I have uploaded before.

I may very well need a lesson in camera/computer operation, but I don't think I've changed anything here.
 

coachgeo

Well-known member

Equipment
L225 w/woods Few Mowers & Back Blade, D722 in Motorcycle (Triumph Tiger), LMTV
Nov 16, 2012
2,460
32
48
Southern OH
... I'd suggest adding a couple moderators.....
While adding mods is fine with me...... what we need more though is "Experts on hand" or official "Orange Genius" or what ever we would like to call them. aka-moderators are more of managers of the site and member behaviours to keep conversation growing positively... they are not necessarily tractor experts (like myself; mostly only experienced at being a mod.).. but are more of good site managers.

In all honestly overall it is these "Orange Geniuses" whom should be recognized for their tireless efforts to pop in and answer mechanical "fix it" , "make it better" questions. It is these folk who make a discussion board like this great. (NIWM has been doing both so massive kudo's to him)

so folk with an Orange Brain.... massive thank your help and do pop in more often to reply to questions. Totally understand how much a PITA it is to answer same questions over and over..... that is number one way good folk like you get burned out. ... so that being said...... us not so orange people SEARCH FIRST out of respect for the "orange brains" time and efforts. (though the ones who abuse them are probably NOT the ones who will take time to read this post)
 
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jajiu

Active member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3560 HSTC, Grader, Backhoe, Snow Plow, Pallet Forks
Jun 5, 2016
453
111
43
73
Rowley, Massachusetts
I'm with sidecarflip, I'm an "old timer" and use my phone for communications. I really enjoy the site and appreciate the hard work of coach and wolfman and plan to enjoy the site and adjust as necessary to however way it looks or is run. I have no problem with the site the way it is, but understand that technology requires change and will accept and move forward with it. Thanks for such a great site!
 

NWAZL3560

Active member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3560, LA805 loader, BH77 backhoe, rock bucket, box blade, pallet forks
Jun 11, 2018
127
55
28
Mesquite, NV
Some sites have a picture size limit. That would obligate the poster to re-size the pictures before posting them. I think that's a good method. I usually resize mine to under 1mb.
 

mdhughes

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901DT
Dec 10, 2014
1,207
622
113
Ste Geneveive county, MO
I vote to stay with the version of the forum software it is running.

I can look into what it would take to write some PHP code to auto resize images for vBulletin software, if it allows custom code to be ran.
 

Bmyers

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
Grand L3560 with LA805 loader, EA 55" Wicked Grapple, SBX72 BB, LP 1272 mower
May 27, 2019
3,151
3,628
113
Southern Illinois
This is what I was waiting on hearing/seeing. I just paid my $40 for the lifetime membership.

Thank you for the update.
 

torch

Well-known member

Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
2,583
831
113
Muskoka, Ont.
I support upgrading the site to modern software. I think there are better choices than vBulletin out there -- for a new site. However, upgrading to a later version of vBulletin is likely far easier than trying to migrate the site over to a different product, and the resulting feel of an upgrade is likely to be more familiar to existing users than a migration.
 

Tarmy

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L2800, BH76A, FEL,box scraper
Nov 17, 2009
400
256
63
Lake Almanor, Ca
Whatever you do...do not update with whatever WeldingWeb.com used...that was/is/and continues to be a disaster...

Thanks to all who run/help/mod/administer this site...been here since 2009 and have lurked more than posted. I come here almost everyday...

I have learned a lot from the entire crew here...thanks to all...

The forum works for me just like it is...
 

DustyRusty

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23S
Nov 8, 2015
4,956
3,695
113
North East CT
I was going to post my sentiments on the upgrade, however, I remembered a thread on VBulletin that summed up the upgrades, and I will quote it here, giving credit to Alice

Honestly, I love vb4 more than vb5, and I love vb3 more than both!! Heck, I still use three in one of my communities. I've been using 3.8.11, so I'll have to upgrade. hehe
3.8.11 is the most stable of all the VBulletin products, and if it ain't broken, then don't mess with it. Heck, on my forums, I am running 3.8.9, and everything works perfectly.

For mobile users, we are using Forum Runner, and all of our mobile users are happy with it.

Spammers.... well that is another subject, however, I will not discuss how to keep them at bay on a public forum, because there is no reason to educate them to defeat the safeguards that I use to keep them out.
 

Magicman

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4900 Utility Special 4WD e/w FEL & 1530 John Deere "Traveling Man"
Oct 8, 2019
5,058
6,438
113
80
Brookhaven, MS
knotholesawmill.com
Thank You Mr, K for the "history lesson" and also for being attentive and responsive to the OTT member's questions and needs.
 

sheepfarmer

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3560, B2650, Gator, Ingersoll mower
Nov 14, 2014
4,440
654
113
MidMichigan
Thank you Mr K for all you, Vic and the mods do.

I look at the forum mainly with an Android tablet, PC running Windows 7, and load pictures from an Apple iPhone 7. No troubles, and other than the pictures that folks don't resize before upoading, no complaints. I am not sure how some people's rigs can slip an oversize picture up there, whenever I forget, the picture is rejected until I edit it. On the computer this can be done easily with Photoshop, and on the phone by trimming to size, and it now asks me what size to save.

I don't know what the upcoming changes in html (or whatever was described inthe earlier posts by IT professionals) will do. If the site will still run I'd vote for leaving it, but if not I guess we'll all have to bite the bullet and upgrade our stuff.
 

armylifer

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX1860, FEL, RCK54P MMM, BB1548 Box Scraper, Quick Hitch, Piranha Bar, BX6315
Mar 26, 2013
1,955
695
113
Thurston County, WA
I vote for keeping the ability to see older threads complete with pictures. Whatever option makes that happen is okay with me. I have never had a problem with anything on this site. The only thing I could wish for is finding enough time in a day to read it all.
 

miketrock

Member
Nov 25, 2019
162
18
18
Pa
This might seem ridiculously simple minded but, can you keep some Orange and color on the site when you upgrade ? I used to be on a Jeep forum and when they upgraded, it became all bland and dull and gray and slowly the membership and posting dropped away …. always seemed like a gray rainy day when you went on there … kind of like a subconscious "downer". I think that bright Orange helps make it seem like a happy place … besides that tractors are like big toys …. just my 2 cents.