Skidding winch

Stomper · May 8, 2019

Got everything all plumbed in last night and gave it a try today. Only thing I have left to do is paint the drop legs that keep the tractor from being pulled backwards and build some permanent mount brackets for the hoses running back to the rear remotes. I was a bit skeptical because I very briefly tried it out last last night with a short piece of rope I had laying around and it was bunching up issues like Crmorse was having. Today I tried it with the actual rope I will be using and I pulled my 600 lbs concrete counter weight off the pallet and across the ground without any issues at idle. Needless to say Im pretty happy but more use will tell the whole story. As it sits right now I have about $900 give or take into it and that is with the cost of the rear remotes that I had to install.

Stomper · May 8, 2019

Well I had the rope bunch up on me a few times but not to bad. Still didn’t like it though. There was a slight taper on the capstan spool so What I think was going on is the more force applied to the rope, the more it would want to slip down the taper and bunch up on itself. so I chucked it up in the lathe and removed the taper. After machining it was clear that it was quite a taper. I’ll give this a try and see what happens

crmorse · May 8, 2019

I tried flipping mine upside first and that didn’t really help much. Once I turned mine flat it did get a lot better.

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mike paulson · May 9, 2019

I've been studying PCW5000 videos like some kind of CSI agent and am looking at the rope guide they use. I think CMorse used the provided guide on his build at some point. I'm wondering if the pulley taper combined with the guide helps cinch down the rope on the capstan.

Stomper · May 9, 2019

Not sure about that but during the limited Testing that I did do, the harder I pulled on the rope the more of a chance there was for the bottom wrap of rope to be pushed down off the spool and the second wrap to move where the first wrap was. I am wondering if that’s not the reason that the spool comes with that little extra piece? If you can understand what I’m saying! I didn’t really get the rope wrapping up on itself but more of the bottom wrap of rope being pushed off the spool by the upper wraps. If I pulled in an upward position during winching, (from the winch to me the rope was angled up) the rope wouldn’t do it as much, probably because there was less force without the top rope trying to force its way down the taper of the spool. Its quite clear that the taper would be causing this. Maybe I was pulling too much weight because it seems the more tightly wound the wraps are on the spool the more of a tendency to want to slide down the to the narrow part of the spool. I was pretty happy with the grip the rope was getting on the spool but it was slipping a bit when I couldn’t pull to hard because of the issue with the rope being forced off the bottom of the spool. I will definitely try to do some more testing today now that I have taken the taper out of the spool. Just doesn’t make any sense because I never saw any of these issues with any capstan winch videos I watched on YouTube. My thinking is that the taper of the spool and the tightness of the wraps on the spool (weight being pulled and how hard I pull) are the reasons for all this happening. I am very curious to see how it works now.

mike paulson · May 9, 2019

Your right about the pulling tension, definitely happens when you pull hard on the rope. And pulling in a slight upward angle seems to help. Angling back by shortening the top link as CMorse did is something I will also try. If you notice the more recent Norwood video they have the unit angled back a noticeable amount. I'm going to find some time and continue playing and trying things. I'm also fabbing my fairlead. When I was testing the other day I did notice some rope abuse and rope fibers accumulating on the capstan mount plate. I did drag my 900lb weight several hundred feet thru varying terrain. I'm already look at this project as a success, with just a couple of tweaks required. I will keep you posted

Stomper · May 9, 2019

I completely agree Mike, it is a success and just needs some tweaking to iron out the rope issue. I’m sure that between you, crmorse and myself testing these things it won’t take long to find out the issue.

mike paulson · May 9, 2019

After closer examination of the guide that comes with the capstan and watching more videos I think I might try installing that little doodad. It looks like it forces the rope up the barrel providing the necessary clearance for the rope entering the capstan. The binding looks like the rope coming on to the barrel climbs over the first turn off rope already on the barrel which slides down because there's nothing to guide it and make room for the rope coming aboard, if that makes sense. Mounting this little wedge could be problematic as CMorse explained to me, and if not secure could move causing the rope to shred. The trick might be to find a way to mount it in a stable way the permits no movement.

Stomper · May 10, 2019

That might be the simple fix we’re looking for. Who knows. The portable winches these capstan spools are made for don’t seem to have this issue and that seems to be the common “missing “ our home built winches have.

mike paulson · May 10, 2019

Stomper said:
That might be the simple fix we***8217;re looking for. Who knows. The portable winches these capstan spools are made for don***8217;t seem to have this issue and that seems to be the common ***8220;missing ***8220; our home built winches have.

Gotta say Portable Winch is a reputable company and they sell lots of winches, plenty of video documentation on YouTube , and they work flawless. Sometimes it's easier just to copy tried and true like the Chinese do

Stomper · May 11, 2019

mike paulson said:
After closer examination of the guide that comes with the capstan and watching more videos I think I might try installing that little doodad. It looks like it forces the rope up the barrel providing the necessary clearance for the rope entering the capstan. The binding looks like the rope coming on to the barrel climbs over the first turn off rope already on the barrel which slides down because there's nothing to guide it and make room for the rope coming aboard, if that makes sense. Mounting this little wedge could be problematic as CMorse explained to me, and if not secure could move causing the rope to shred. The trick might be to find a way to mount it in a stable way the permits no movement.

I went back and studied several of the videos myself and I think you are are 100 percent correct on the guide keeping the rope from dropping down the spool. I think you just found the cure to the problems we have been experiencing. I would almost bet money that is the cure to our problems. I have always thought it was just to help keep the spool on.

I went out yesterday and pulled a bunch of logs out of the bush and was realy impressed with how the winch operated, other than the rope binding. The rope I have really grips the capstan nicely and I barely have to pull on the rope. It was slipping slightly on the capstan because I couldn't pull to much or the rope would bind. If i pulled the rope tight it would stop slipping but then would start to bind up. I am optimistic that adding the rope guide will solve this problem. I just need to see if I can just buy the guide.

mike paulson · May 11, 2019

Pics of skidding

mike paulson · May 11, 2019

More pics. I apologize for pics that upload sideways for whatever reason?? Details next post.

mike paulson · May 11, 2019

An astounding success! I installed the guide this morning and Zero, I repeat ZERO bunching. In photos I'm pulling my dirt scoop approx 80 ft without any effort. I have 300 lbs cement in the scoop and scoop weight estimate 250. I pulled an Ash log from my pile. Length 16 ft and 16 inch's in diameter on wide end, estimate around 1000 lbs maybe. Pulled it like nothing. I even rolled the log into a ditch on the side of my road and proceeded to pull it out with no problem. I will celebrate tonight with NY Strip Steak and Guinness Draught!

Stomper · May 11, 2019

Great news. Good catch on the rope guide. Looks like I’ll be getting one even if I have to buy a new captstan spool

mike paulson · May 11, 2019

Stomper said:
Great news. Good catch on the rope guide. Looks like I’ll be getting one even if I have to buy a new captstan spool

In addition. No need to tilt unit back by shortening top link. An no need for a Fairlead either. The rope touches nothing till it comes to the capstan. So the guide is obviously key. Also mount the guide solid so there's no movement and mount as close to the capstan drum as possible.

mike paulson · May 11, 2019

Stomper said:
Great news. Good catch on the rope guide. Looks like I’ll be getting one even if I have to buy a new captstan spool

Yes, j will probably buy an additional capstan just to have as a spare

crmorse · May 11, 2019

I'm really glad to hear you've had such good success! My first attempt at the rope guide (admittedly weak mount) caused it to squeeze the rope until the sheath caught under the guide and ripped the rope apart.

My second attempt was much stronger and didn't allow the rope under it but it did twist slightly and the guide started grinding into the capstan which left a nasty spalled edge which started chewing up the rope. At that point I quit messing with it.

Stomper, I'll check and see if I still have it laying around somewhere (not high hope though). If I do, I'll send it to you.

Stomper · May 11, 2019

Stomper, I'll check and see if I still have it laying around somewhere (not high hope though). If I do, I'll send it to you.

That would be great. Thanks.

Stomper · May 11, 2019

Mike, about your pictures not loading correct. I am assuming you took them and posted them with you Iphone. I was doing that also and mine were loading 1/4 turn out also. what I did to fix it was after I took the picture with my phone I went into my pictures and clicked on the picture, clicked the edit icon, then clicked on the rotate button, rotated the picture one full rotation until it was the correct orentation and hit save. Don't ask me why the pictures don't load properly or why this works but it did for me. I found this out by accident.

Skidding winch

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