CRAZY TRAIN has gone OFF THE RAILS

GreensvilleJay · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

I understand it was Obama and his buddies that 'condenmed' coal plants, the current BUSINESSMAN in charge, has reversed the policy.
You NEED coalfired plants(or similar) as they quickly startup and can get a LOT of energy to the people during the 'peak demands'. Nukes are 'slow and steady' energy sources.

Overall coalplants can easily be better 'environmentally' than wind and solar(which obviously don't work on calm nights)

twomany · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

dlsmith said:
Nor do I. I hope they grow up to be educated, intelligent, and critical thinking adults.

But, you didn't answer my question, what would you tell them?

What I hope my children got from me.

"Live simply, that others may simply live"

If $10, $100, $1000 etc. is "nothing" to you to blow on something that is "harmful", that's NOT NOTHING. The harm is done. Don't make life tough for others just because it's easy for you.

Use it, use it up, handle refuse responsibly.

Be aware of the consequences of your actions. If you don't know, find out first.

And for me, the large moral issue regarding "green" environmental social politics is the hypocrisy.

"Scientist have concluded" that even if man kind does take every action to prevent Anthroprogenic global climate change, the "change" to the real climate will be lost in the uncertainty of ANY climate model projection. Now what good is that?

Lastly, Show me, don't tell me what to do.

twomany · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

GreensvilleJay said:
I understand it was Obama and his buddies that 'condenmed' coal plants, the current BUSINESSMAN in charge, has reversed the policy.
You NEED coalfired plants(or similar) as they quickly startup and can get a LOT of energy to the people during the 'peak demands'. Nukes are 'slow and steady' energy sources.

Overall coalplants can easily be better 'environmentally' than wind and solar(which obviously don't work on calm nights)

Check with the Germans regarding how well the "No Coal, No Nukes" has worked for them.

North Idaho Wolfman · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

motionclone said:
Heres the Hellcat Hemi powered Prius .EDIT
Oh and it was 17 degrees this morning, so much for warming. need more hellcat prius

I edited your rude comment, You need to tone it down!

North Idaho Wolfman · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

To everyone, be respectful and comment with class and decorum!

motionclone · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

North Idaho Wolfman said:
I edited your rude comment, You need to tone it down!

It wasnt a personal attack, I was saying what and why that hellcat car was built which is very relevant to this conversation and important. It was built as a middle finger to some people. Nobody in particular but some people in general. and its my understanding that that isnt against any rules here.

skeets · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Can you say HEMI???? I knew you could, MOPAR to ya

sheepfarmer · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Skeets I was hoping you would comment on the coal industry, because I think you have expertise in that area. I too am apprehensive about the risks of nuclear energy. I have the impression that mining coal could be made safe for its workers, even though the track record, particularly with the black lung issues, is not stellar.

As far as using it for energy, or burning anything for that matter, seems like their are two waste products that are problematic, carbon particles and CO2 . The stacks and scrubbers (and dpf filters) are getting the carbon particles out, but not the CO2. There is research going on and pilot projects to extract the CO2 and either inject it back underground or find another use for it. So I wouldn't advocate for shutting down coal entirely but use it intelligently. The fossil fuels, all of them, should be considered money in the bank for future generations and not squandered mindlessly because they are cheap and convenient.

GreensvilleJay · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

If one can look at the overall stats of risks vs energy type, nukes have to be the winner. minimal impact. very little displacemant of Mother Earth , unlike coal,oil, natgas( holes in ground), hydro( huge reservoirs = loss of land),windmills and solar will never MAKE money.....

North Idaho Wolfman · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

motionclone said:
It wasnt a personal attack, I was saying what and why that hellcat car was built which is very relevant to this conversation and important. It was built as a middle finger to some people. Nobody in particular but some people in general. and its my understanding that that isnt against any rules here.

I read it a little different (as others probably would) that it was directed at others on here.

motionclone · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

sheepfarmer said:
Skeets I was hoping you would comment on the coal industry, because I think you have expertise in that area. I too am apprehensive about the risks of nuclear energy. I have the impression that mining coal could be made safe for its workers, even though the track record, particularly with the black lung issues, is not stellar.

As far as using it for energy, or burning anything for that matter, seems like their are two waste products that are problematic, carbon particles and CO2 . The stacks and scrubbers (and dpf filters) are getting the carbon particles out, but not the CO2. There is research going on and pilot projects to extract the CO2 and either inject it back underground or find another use for it. So I wouldn't advocate for shutting down coal entirely but use it intelligently. The fossil fuels, all of them, should be considered money in the bank for future generations and not squandered mindlessly because they are cheap and convenient.

Speaking of DPF filters, My diesel truck gets horrible fuel mileage due to the conflict between having a particulate filter to keep the atmosphere "clean" and keeping the particulate filter clean so the engine will run. So my truck burns more fuel to to keep the particulate filter clean so the filter will save the environment. Seems legit.

OH and if I take that stuff off I become a criminal and could go to jail....on my OWN truck

Daren Todd · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Nuclear isn't bad if managed properly. We happen to have one about 60 miles from the house. It's pretty low impact for the most part.

The key on nuke plants is maintenance. Over time stuff starts breaking down, pump failures, ect...... They need to be well maintained to continue to be safe.

They had some issues at the one near us a few years ago. No radiation leak or anything like that. They had a transformer blow which caused a fire

Since then, they have been more proactive with their preventative maintenance.

Windmills in my opinion seem to be an oxymoron [emoji14]

For the cost to put one up, the diesel engine to get it to spin, and the maintenance on one. Well..... it doesn't seem like a win win for me. Driving through Texas or Oklahoma it seems like half of them in an area have stopped spinning due to some issue or another. That seems like a big loss in revenue and energy production

Solar seems like it would be more efficient, and cost effective if used on a smaller scale to supplement individual homes rather then the larger scale solar farms that are popping up.

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Tughill Tom · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Daren Todd said:
Nuclear isn't bad if managed properly. We happen to have one about 60 miles from the house. It's pretty low impact for the most part.

The key on nuke plants is maintenance. Over time stuff starts breaking down, pump failures, ect...... They need to be well maintained to continue to be safe.

They had some issues at the one near us a few years ago. No radiation leak or anything like that. They had a transformer blow which caused a fire

Since then, they have been more proactive with their preventative maintenance.

Windmills in my opinion seem to be an oxymoron [emoji14]

For the cost to put one up, the diesel engine to get it to spin, and the maintenance on one. Well..... it doesn't seem like a win win for me. Driving through Texas or Oklahoma it seems like half of them in an area have stopped spinning due to some issue or another. That seems like a big loss in revenue and energy production

Solar seems like it would be more efficient, and cost effective if used on a smaller scale to supplement individual homes rather then the larger scale solar farms that are popping up.

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I live by the biggest wind farm East of the Mississippi, Maple Ridge Wind Farm here in Northern NY, with more being built every year.
They are an eye sore to say the least as well as the environmental issues, dead birds, oil leaks.
They don't start on diesel here, their back fed from the main grid to get the mass moving. How's that cost effective ?
I'm not a big fan of the BIG FANS to say the least, but being the lowest income county in the state big money wins.

Daren Todd · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Tughill Tom said:
I live by the biggest wind farm East of the Mississippi, Maple Ridge Wind Farm here in Northern NY, with more being built every year.

They are an eye sore to say the least as well as the environmental issues, dead birds, oil leaks.

They don't start on diesel here, their back fed from the main grid to get the mass moving. How's that cost effective ?

I'm not a big fan of the BIG FANS to say the least, but being the lowest income county in the state big money wins.

They actually manufacture the windmill props, vanes, or what ever you call the portion that spins about 1 mile from work

I usually get stuck in traffic a couple times a week when they stop traffic to bring 3 of them out to trwnsport to a location.

Usually takes them about 15 minutes for the 3 seperate trucks and convoy of flaggers to make the 90 degree turn out of the industrial complex onto the road, then to the turn onto the on ramp for the interstate. The trailers are about 75ft long or so. So they gotta do some finagling to make the turn without clipping light poles.

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SidecarFlip · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

I never knew they had to have a 'pony' motor to start them spinning, thought the wind did that....

Wonder if they use Kubota diesel engines?

North Idaho Wolfman · Nov 16, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

GreensvilleJay said:
If one can look at the overall stats of risks vs energy type, nukes have to be the winner. minimal impact. very little displacemant of Mother Earth , unlike coal,oil, natgas( holes in ground), hydro( huge reservoirs = loss of land),windmills and solar will never MAKE money.....

Really????
When was the last time that a coal fired, water generated, or natural gas powered power plant kill thousands, and contaminate a 1000 Square miles of land?

The by products from a nuclear power plant will take 1000's of years to degrade to a point where they can be safely handled.

The worst place you can live is anywhere in the vicinity of a Nuclear Power Plant.

GreensvilleJay · Nov 17, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

1,000s have been killed digging for coal to feed the power plants..
millions of acres lost to reservoirs for hydro plants( hoover is one example)
windmills slaughter 1,000s of birds every year....

properly designed amd maintained nukes are statisically safer and cheaper.
as for living near them, your submariiners do that months on end,year after year...

motionclone · Nov 17, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

North Idaho Wolfman said:
Really????
When was the last time that a coal fired, water generated, or natural gas powered power plant kill thousands, and contaminate a 1000 Square miles of land?

The by products from a nuclear power plant will take 1000's of years to degrade to a point where they can be safely handled.

The worst place you can live is anywhere in the vicinity of a Nuclear Power Plant.

Are you saying nuke power has killed thousands? Because there is data on nuclear plant related deaths and its like 50 people since the 1950s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents

There have been LOTS and LOTS of anti nuke propaganda out there for years maybe thats why you have incorrect data.

skeets · Nov 17, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

You are right Jay, there have been many mining related fatalities. SO lets start from 1960, when mining laws really started to be passed and enforced, 17,952 mine related deaths have accrued, that sounds like a lot of dead miners. That works out to 309.5 deaths a year on the average for 58 years.
However not all of these deaths were a direct result of mining. Some were contractors on mine property heart attacks, crashing their cars or trucks , some were thieves stealing coal, or copper, or just trespassing. I know of one case where a miner broke his leg underground and later died from a blood clot, that was counted towards the total number.
And over 440,000 die each year from smoking and in 2010, 25,000 people dies from drinking pop ( https://www.rt.com/usa/soda-sugar-danger-research-singh-559/ )

Here is a link, (https://arlweb.msha.gov/stats/centurystats/coalstats.asp )

I only used 1960 as a starting point as that was really about the time nuclear energy was being pushed to make power. And while there is a link between the numbers of miners employed and the deaths, the trend shows a marked decline in fatalities as well as injuries not listed or reported. In Russia and China and many other countries the mining deaths are not reported, thus we have no idea of how many have died.
I know the industry, and I know the dangers, when in fact no one knows all the dangers of nuclear power.
I am not attempting to change your mind, nor attack you in anyway just reporting from my own personal experiences training and knowledge. Really the information or misinformation out there is only relative to which side you fall on.

sheepfarmer · Nov 17, 2019

Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

GreensvilleJay said:
1,000s have been killed digging for coal to feed the power plants..
millions of acres lost to reservoirs for hydro plants( hoover is one example)
windmills slaughter 1,000s of birds every year....

properly designed amd maintained nukes are statisically safer and cheaper.
as for living near them, your submariiners do that months on end,year after year...

I used to think nuclear power would be wonderful, but I am currently unwilling to vote for more plants. The key is "properly designed and maintained". If you look through the accidents described in the Wikipedia article above, they were largely caused by operator errors. The consequences of mistakes when the large volumes of material needed for electrical power are involved are too great for my taste. People are way too fallible. And then there are the unsolved problems associated with the waste disposal. Some day it could be the answer, but not now.

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