Teaching Profession

GeoHorn

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
5,579
2,947
113
Texas
Sleddog , you are woefully misinformed. Take a break and Google “What is the success rate of charter schools?”

Read ANY of the subjects found and you will see how you have been misled. It takes courage to face facts but I know you have it in you.
 

NHSleddog

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650
Dec 19, 2019
2,149
1,822
113
Southern, NH
Sleddog , you are woefully misinformed. Take a break and Google “What is the success rate of charter schools?”

Read ANY of the subjects found and you will see how you have been misled. It takes courage to face facts but I know you have it in you.
I'm misinformed? About the charter school in my town? Sounds like some real hubris there.

Anyway, it sounds like you guys have it all figured out. Teachers good, parents bad (aren't teachers parents too?), need more money.

We should be back on top any time now.

Never a word about the process.

I'm misinformed?
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp
That is from the US gov. Plenty of cash.

I don't blame teachers beyond their role. I blame public education in general. If they ever cried a different tune than "we have no money" and cash is the only fix.

When is the last time the teachers union came out and said "this curriculum is dumb, fix it"?
When is the last time the teachers union came out and said the administrators are taking too much money away?

No, just go back to numbers 1, 2 and 3 to hear every complaint you ever hear about why America just can't perform better. And you say I am misinformed? I can parrot back every talking point in the NEA playbook, how about something new? Or is it just the same 1,2,3 thing over and over.
 

BigG

Well-known member

Equipment
l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
Sep 14, 2018
1,950
774
113
West Central,FL
NHSleddog

You really need to take the rose colored glasses off and take a look at reality. If your hometown charter school is your only bases of knowledge which it seams to be please please get a teaching degree and show us how it is done.

The problems in the education system are many fold and they will not be solved in this forum but you need to inform yourself better before stating your opinions as facts.

The misuse of money in the system in without a doubt is incredible. However the teachers are the ones spending their own money to buy supplies out of their own pockets because they deal with the kids. The teachers are the ones who see the kids raped by their own fathers and then refuse to come to the school when their son acts up.

Tell me what do you do when you find a 5 year old boy giving a BJ to to another boy and he looks at you and says, " My mommy does it to her
boyfriends."

When an elementary student picks up a long neck beer bottle of the playground and brings it to you and says "Ms **** let me show you how to make this into a knife so you can protect yourself" as she hit the bottle on the curb to make a weapon.

You tell me again how they want to make it the teachers fault when the students do not learn the test answers. The teacher is instructed on what to teach, how to teach it, when to teach it and to whom to teach it by their school system and yet it not allowed to discipline the student who sits in the classroom and says things like "F*** You" and "F*** this s***"

I am so angry from the ignorance you have repeatedly demonstrated that I can not put my thoughts together very well but you really need to get out of you ivory tower and learn what it takes to be a teacher in this day and age. It is not the same as when you went to school. I have the scar on my face to prove I know of what I write about.
 

sparky45

Active member

Equipment
L 3301DT
Dec 5, 2018
248
51
28
SEDAN
Many here, including BigG seem to be knowledgeable about matters of Education, but fall WAY short on solutions. The Education system (Public School System) has been failing America since the mid 1960's, yet STILL no solution. As a matter of FACT educators have failed; the system has failed the majority of it's students for decades. What you are pontificating about is called "deflection".
I would wager a College educated/graduated K ~ 12 "teacher" working in the system today COULDNT pass a test to advance to the 9th grade; that test being the advancement test used in 1895. https://newrepublic.com/article/79470/1895-8th-grade-final-exam-i-couldnt-pass-it-could-you
I doubt I could pass the test either, but I'm 74 and haven't been involved in education for a number of years now. IMO, the NEA is #1 in the problem, with State and Federal regulators a close 2nd.
 

Magicman

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4900 Utility Special 4WD e/w FEL & 1530 John Deere "Traveling Man"
Oct 8, 2019
5,058
6,438
113
80
Brookhaven, MS
knotholesawmill.com
Re: What did you do to or on your Kubota today?

I see little in this entire topic that is anything other than Blame 101.
 

BigG

Well-known member

Equipment
l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
Sep 14, 2018
1,950
774
113
West Central,FL
Many here, including BigG seem to be knowledgeable about matters of Education, but fall WAY short on solutions.

Solutions are pretty easy but most people will not support the changes that need to be done. The administration and the politicians want and have the control of the power and fail to do the things that need done to have a good school. Why? Because some nutty professor needs to get his/her PhD so they invent a new way to entertain the students an a new system of education is born. The PhD board at the College or University must justify their existence and give the new system their blessing. Now the people who sell their textbooks hire the new PhD that wrote the new untested system and "sells" the unproven system at an inflated price to some politician by giving campaign money to politicians. It happens at the national,state and local levels.

The PhD, the textbook group publishers, writers, printers, salesman etc. all make money. And a lot of it. Call up the high school and ask what a new math book costs.

At my dad's passing we found many school papers that belonged to him, a 1938 high school grad. My sister an engineer, my other teacher and English teacher and now a nurse nor I a college grad, Cum Laude, could pass the exam that my father took in 8th grade. He came from a one room school in SE Ohio and as a high school grad had more knowledge then his children. Get rid of the gimmicks and the new ways of education and return to the basics. Once the basics are understood go on to teach the advanced subject materials.

Discipline however is the largest problem with out a doubt. First and second graders that do whatever they want whenever they want because the parents failed to teach their children how to respect their elders. Instead they bribe them or worse ignore them. Go into the store and watch how these children behave in public. There is no need to even go into a school.

And if you are a good parent and discipline your own child the ridicule from other adults will shock you. A lot of parents are afraid to discipline their own children because the kids have learned to call the authorities.

A short story to illustrate my point. The buses in my school now have cameras mount in the bus to observe the activities on that bus.

The camera shows a black, heavy set 6th grade girl with a pro baseball jacket on. The jacket with her name stitched on it can be seen on the tape. The girl gets up and walls to the rear of the bus while it is traveling down the road. She then picks up a small white girl in one hand and beats then snot out of her with the other. The black girl is at least 2 maybe 3 times larger then the little girl.

All the students start to yell for the driver to stop the bus and she quickly does stop. In the mean time the black girl hurries back to her own seat in the front of the bus and sits there staring towards the front of the bus.

Now all of this is on tape and as clear as day.

The next morning the black student is called to the office by the school resource officer. The people at this meeting include the officer, the principal, myself, since I was on bus duty and the mother of the black girl. The tape was shown in the meeting to the mother and her only comment was, something to the effect of: The only reason we are here is because you all are white. That is not my daughter on the tape.

How do you teach a child to behave when she has just learned that she will escape any discipline if she uses the race card to get out of trouble.

The whole thing was on the TV in front of the mother and yet she refused to admit that the student was her own daughter.

There is no respect for others being taught in the homes.

A students that have committed grand theft auto 15 times was sentenced to, "You must attend school every day." by the judge.

Gun crimes are not reported, weapons at school go undisciplined, bomb threats are often phoned in and a teacher is the one that is going to face these students, often by themselves, and with a strong understanding that the school board will not protect there employee but instead defend the students rights.

The solution is simple. Give the teachers and the principal the ability to control the students. Ban cell phones from the classroom. Allow the school resource officer to arrest the drug dealers. Remove the unruly students from the schools.

Allow the the brighter children to excel instead of dumbing down the system to let every child be a winner.
 

NHSleddog

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650
Dec 19, 2019
2,149
1,822
113
Southern, NH
So now it's my fault? LOL, thats cool anything but the source.

My point was it is always the same old trope, and you illustrated it again very well.

Rose colored glasses? So we are not spending in the top on education? We are not in the mid 20's in most matrices in performance? I think you need to take off the glasses and start looking at solutions instead of blaming me. Are you saying this data is wrong?

So there are bad kids in schools. That is a problem, I agree. So how is screwing up their ability to count helping them?
There are some systems that don't get well funded. How is playing gender games and all the funding going to it helping them?
Only one parent at home? That is a problem, I agree. How is "no child left behind" (auto pass for everyone) helping them learn?

These problems are not going to go away. So what, throw in the towel? I don't think you will be able to blame the parents forever because that dynamic isn't changing anytime soon.

I obviously triggered some feelings bringing up the holy trinity of education excuses but it is my opinion based on what I have seen and the actual numbers.

The funny thing is, I think good teachers should get paid a lot more. Unfortunately, that profession has stated that it is impossible to quantify a teachers performance, so there is no need to look into performance bonuses or anything of the like as they don't know if they each really suck or are the best in the world, there's just no way to know.
 
Last edited:

BigG

Well-known member

Equipment
l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
Sep 14, 2018
1,950
774
113
West Central,FL
So now it's my fault?

I do not recall any one saying it was your fault. What was illustrated was there are a multitude of problems in the system and yet you blame the teacher. I will be the first to admit that there are some pretty poor teachers. But there are a lot more overwhelmed teachers.

Things like being told to control a fight between to students but you by law are not allowed to touch either one of the students.If you touch one of the students you may be charged with assault. And you will not be allowed in to the classroom once you are arrested. There goes your years of education and your livelihood. You are told to stand there and tell them not to fight. However if one of the students get injured you are at fault for not stopping the fight. I was 6'6" and 250 pounds and I had middle school kids larger then me. When you are that big do you pay any attention to a 5 foot something teacher yelling, because the noise is unbelievable, stop fighting?

One of the most humorous preschool days I got to enjoy was the day I was told that I was to monitor the boys bathroom at the end of my hallway. I was then told not to enter the boys bathroom because I might be accused of sexual improprieties. So which do you do? Walk into the bathroom every once in awhile to stop the drug deals and be accused of being a pervert or stand outside in the hallway and let who knows what take place in the bathrooms.

Let me pose a hypothetical. You as a baker are told how much sugar, flour, butter and what every else goes into a batch of cookies by the bartender(school board member) at the local pub. The clerk(another board member) at the gas station tells you how hot to set the oven and how long to bake the cookies. And the factory supervisor (board member) tells you that you must include everything on the list including some rat poison (unruly students) in the cookie mix. When the cookies are done they will determine you pay by the taste of the cookies. Does not look to good for you to get that pay increase Mr Baker. Your cookies don't taste very good. You are a poor baker. You should have baked better cookies.

You can tell me again it is the teachers fault but you need to look at the whole picture of the thousands of teachers that work all day at school and then go home and prep lessons for the next day, grade papers, try to make parent contacts to get help from the parents for troubled students, spend their own money at the store to buy supplies for students, buy paper for the copy machine because the school can or will not buy anymore paper and it is only December, produce lesson plans so the administration can track what you are doing. Tell me again how it is the teachers fault.

Tell me again when a 75 pound punk looks up at you and says, "I'm going to kill you." And another student calls your house and slides the bullet into a 9 mm so you can hear it and says, "I'm coming after you". And the principal will do nothing to protect you. She would not even remove the student from my classroom.

You sir can read in your reports all you want about the poor quality of the teachers but you know very little about what goes on in a public school today.

I loved teaching. I put my time, my money and my life on the line to try to help the kids that I loved and hated. I can not fight the system of arrogant politicians, administrators, uninformed finger pointers and uninvolved parents blaming me for the short comings that are the education system.

I was nominated by my school peers for "Teacher of the Year"and my name was removed from the list of nominees by a very vindictive principle. My wife was selected as "Teacher of Year" in her school but not for the county. There are over 200,000 students in 300 schools in the district that we worked in.
 
Last edited:

NHSleddog

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650
Dec 19, 2019
2,149
1,822
113
Southern, NH
I never said teachers were the whole problem, just part of the problem. And they are part of the problem.

Cute analogy why teachers are the only profession on earth where you can't measure performance. It just reinforces the saying about analogies.

Why don't the teachers ever complain about the retarding of learning that is going on? Why are you teaching "everyday math"? Common Core, gender studies etc. THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM and the teachers are the ones TEACHING it.

How is any of that helping the knife throwing gang-banger in your class?
 

BigG

Well-known member

Equipment
l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
Sep 14, 2018
1,950
774
113
West Central,FL
How do I explain to you that the teacher has no control over what to teach. The government in some form federal, state or local tells you what to do. Common core is not liked by any teacher that I know. They are told to teach it and then mandated test are given to the students to make sure they learn it. You as a teacher must teach what is on the test or you are gone.

My wife after being a "Teacher of the Year" was removed from a school because the school had a failing grade. She had no control of the poor living conditions of the students. She has no control of the misbehaving students that are coached by welfare mothers to misbehave until they get an IEP because the mother gets more money from the government to help with the troubled child.

The problems just go on and on.

Why don't you tell me a fair and valid way to test a teacher. The product does not fit into a hit or miss gauge. You do not get to build you tractor and then test drive it. You must control 30 plus kids in a classroom with some mentally challenged students mixed in with gifted students. Some drunk/high kids mixed with some tea teetotalers. While another kid holds his cellphone under his desk watching who knows what. Keep them in check and on task learning that A squared plus B squared equals C squared.

Give it a try. Come back and tell me how easy it is. Tell me I was overpaid. And I only worked 9/12 of the year.
 

Tornado

Well-known member
May 7, 2019
793
250
63
usa
While I think our public education system fails a lot of people, and has many problems, I think we all should recognize that the biggest piece of the pie graph in all of this is that it all starts at home. The reason we have fallen off the charts in world literacy is largely due to the crumbling of the family unit, less parent involvement, more distractions in kids lives than ever before, and then finally an often poor education system that cant mend the myriad of other issues. I think America's best and brightest however are still some of the worlds best - we just have a lot more at the bottom end that pull the numbers down. When you consider that over 70% of African American children grow up in a one parent home, often with a poverty mindset, this translates into a lot of negative parameters across society, especially in education. Does any other country have to contend with such a thing? People say our education started to go down hill in the 1960's. Do you know what also has seen a stark trajectory change since the 1960's? The divorce rate - which has more than doubled since 1970. So, the family unit has crumbled substantially since 1960. Couple this with what I said in my last post about the explosion of the "career woman" where the rate of women participation in the work force has risen from 34% in 1950 to over 60% by the year 2000. Where traditionally mothers could pick up a lot of slack for the children, they now also were out of the home in increasing numbers working jobs. Then the Internet exploded in the 1990's, and with it kids have become more and more connected to influences outside of the home. So family influence has fallen off drastically, outside influence is ratcheted up substantially. How does that affect children? When you step back and look at the big picture, I think it paints a picture of a series of societal failures, and in the midst of all that the ones who suffer the most are the most vulnerable - children. While the education system has major problems, I think the bigger part of the problem is we are sending much much lower quality children into the education system than we ever have before, and at much higher numbers, and then expecting the school to some how do the impossible. The mountain is just too big for most teachers. My mother in law was a public school teacher in Chicago inner city schools for over 20 years. She can tell you horror story after horror story that she has seen there. Teachers beat up and pushed around by students routinely, gang activity on campus, drug activity on campus constantly, sex, pornography, destroying of infrastructure for the fun of it, and the list goes on. Its enough to sink any aspiring new teachers hopes and idealistic views of educating and changing kids lives. These kids show up at school so broken and so screwed up from home life there is no fixing it - you instead get out of the way and try to just protect yourself and keep your head down. Some of the stories she has told me have just baffled me, and often the teachers have zero backup from administrators in many tough situations. It can start to become a "every man for himself" feeling among staff.

I think you have to look at the big picture with this problem It is not all the fault of one area or party - it is a culmination of failings and changes in society.
 

Freeheeler

Well-known member

Equipment
b2650 tlb
Aug 16, 2018
704
519
93
Knoxville, TN
Yep, same old same old. No money, parents fault.



Common Core? Who's brainfart was that? Was it just put in place to slow our kids down? Everyday Math? Cute name, it is just the opposite of what it means. Too bad we don't teach the kids to count anymore. A "para" for every 3rd kid IEP's for everyone etc.
States were given an incentive to adopt the Common Core Standards through the possibility of competitive federal Race to the Top grants. U.S. President Barack Obama and U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan announced the Race to the Top competitive grants on July 24, 2009, as a motivator for education reform.

So, to answer your question, politicians, that's who's brainfart it is. Do teachers like it ... NO. Are they mandated to teach that way ... YES (at least in our school system, I don't know about yours).
 

D2Cat

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
12,901
4,269
113
40 miles south of Kansas City
I've often thought the teacher's union has too much power. There are some teachers that should be dismissed, but tenure keeps them there.

I also realize the major missing link in much of what is wrong in America is: LACK OF DISCIPLINE. Habits of all kinds, from managing money, proper exercise, proper eating, being honest, and on an on.

There is one school system where discipline is not a problem. Teach at a school on a military base. Those kids get out of order and their dad gets a notice from his commanding officer. About the second time it happens he gets new orders! But, the military dad is TOO strict by our non-military standards, and that's the problem in public schools.

As a parallel to the teacher's problems, the American farmer would be much better off if they gathered together and sold their products directly to the users. However, the govt is too concerned about bad food in the system, so meat had to be handled by a certified processor. And the government takes control.

If teachers took control their profession, go on strike and leave schools closed for a few months. Oh yes, they'd suffer no pay. But the system would quickly get revised, and parents would see where they are lacking, and the taxpayers could see some bad teachers leave, and the teachers would have the power to express teaching methods and books.

Wonder why all the national spelling bees are won by folks who are not from the USA? It has to do with different cultures where discipline is second nature, and studying is a priority! Not money, not teachers, but parents as parents.

The farmer is the only business that I can think of that buys retail and sells wholesale.
 

Freeheeler

Well-known member

Equipment
b2650 tlb
Aug 16, 2018
704
519
93
Knoxville, TN
Re: What did you do to or on your Kubota today?

Yep, same old same old. No money, parents fault.

It would be really great to hear ONE time from a teacher that there are bad teachers in the system that needs a vehicle in place to remove them. That common core is retarding the education process. That the school is spending in all the wrong places etc.
Sure, come on down and visit. I hear my wife say that almost every evening. When she gets together with her friends who are also teachers, that's all they talk about.

They are rated on performance standards, but mandated on what and how to teach the materials, and are restricted by so many stupid rules that it's amazing that any kids get any education. The 'stupid rules' list is way too long to discuss here. A good sports analogy would be a receiver that gets rated by how many touchdown passes he catches, but the quarterback sucks, they can only use their left hand to catch, and aren't allowed to use their thumb.
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
9,678
3,931
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
It's all part of the 'dumbing down of America' ...
Want a real eyeopener ? Count how many pages are devoted to WWII in History classes VS 'slavery'.
 

NHSleddog

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650
Dec 19, 2019
2,149
1,822
113
Southern, NH
Sounds like you have it all figured out, there is no solution. And it comes round robin to my first statement. The only solution from the the school, teachers and NEA is - teachers good, parents bad and there is no money.

You say there isn't a single teacher that wants common core, yet every single one around the country is lock-step teaching it? You don't see that as a problem? So you recognize that the curriculum is garbage and yet it is taught anyway? I thought all these teachers were smart and wanted the best for the kids?

They are the strongest union in the country, you don't think a nationwide walkout would get that crap changed overnight?

I just don't get it, and I am sure we will never agree.
 
Last edited:

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
9,678
3,931
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
re: They are the strongest union in the country, you don't think a nationwide walkout would get that crap changed overnight?

here in Ontario ,they're out, well kinda, rotating days off, though Friday seems 'popular'....

They no longer teach the 3Rs.....
NO reading....listen to youtubes...
NO writing.....X for your name's OK ?
NO Arithmetic... got smart phones and computers....

NO lathes in woodshop.....
NO supplies for shops...so I'm now donating wood and steel to local High School.

Jay
 

NHSleddog

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650
Dec 19, 2019
2,149
1,822
113
Southern, NH
re: They are the strongest union in the country, you don't think a nationwide walkout would get that crap changed overnight?

here in Ontario ,they're out, well kinda, rotating days off, though Friday seems 'popular'....

They no longer teach the 3Rs.....
NO reading....listen to youtubes...
NO writing.....X for your name's OK ?
NO Arithmetic... got smart phones and computers....

NO lathes in woodshop.....
NO supplies for shops...so I'm now donating wood and steel to local High School.

Jay
Down here is very much the same. Anything but what they actually need to know. Math is just integral to everything we do, as well as needed for most high end professions. It is a shame what is being taught today.

We still have a strong shop class in our local system. My son and I donate time and materials to the welding shop 4 times a year. He is kind of a celebrity there still, so it is fun when we go.
 

Lycomech96

Member

Equipment
B2601, loader, backhoe
Nov 12, 2018
49
0
6
Williamsport, PA, USA
It's all part of the 'dumbing down of America' ...
Want a real eyeopener ? Count how many pages are devoted to WWII in History classes VS 'slavery'.
Bingo!
Start reading here: http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/ddd/

Look at the crime report in the newspaper (if you get one daily.) 90 percent of the perps got in trouble due to drug and/or alcohol abuse. We have gone through three generations of(un)controlled substance abuse and a fair percentage of the population has turned on, tuned in and dropped out. And you think we are capable of turning out top class students?
And who teaches the teachers? 90% of college professors belong to which political party?

I went to school in the 50s and 60s. There were at minimum 30 kids in every class room, sometimes 35, and there was no problem maintaining order, even by frail older women. What has changed?

Now, my biggest worry is someday not being able to keep up with ever rising school and property taxes. I bought my modest home in 1975 and paid it off in under 9 years in a two income situation. But, the tax cost per month is very close to what my mortgage payment used to be so I "repurchase" my place every 17 years or just "rent" it from the county and school district.

Right now, the teachers in my district are working without a new contract and have sued the district to get them back to the bargaining table. Hey, teacher, if you want to make the kind of money the teachers make in a different district, move there. We are tapped out here.
 

motionclone

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L345DT with Lp mower, forks and grapple thumb, Bobcat 337 Midi Ex
May 4, 2018
1,398
992
113
Maine
Since I have 1 kid currently in school and 1 kid who graduated 3 years ago I have a close connection with how the schools and teachers are today in 2020 and the information below comes from first hand knowledge and experience with teachers and school administrations.

Public schools in New England are RADICAL LIBERAL IDEOLOGY indoctrination camps.

I can give you 100 examples of this RADICAL LIBERAL IDEOLOGY INDOCTRINATION if I cared to. Most people here wouldnt be able to handle it without complaining to the mods though so i wont.

This RADICAL LIBERAL IDEOLOGY INDOCTRINATION isnt just done by the teachers though, although they are the prime conduit. It starts with the politically powerful part of the state/community, then the school board, then administration and on to the teachers.

Luckily the indoctrination was thwarted on my kids but its because I pay attention to whats going on and oh boy does the school hate me for it. Lots of others in my area have woken up to whats going on so not all the kids out of New England public schools are indoctrinated snowflakes.
 
Last edited: