Electrical Gurus-Help!

Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
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You can try C3 Controls.
https://www.c3controls.com/
I don't have any experience with them, but they look like they may have something they can match up for you if you call them. What you are looking for is a cam switch.
I will look into them when I have time- the caregiver thing is more & more demanding and I am attempting to organize a trip to my place in the mountains.
 

Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
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Peoria, AZ
Were these measurements with the jumpers in place?
If they were, can you do another measurement with the jumper out?
Is it attached to the lathe like the one in this ebay ad?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HZ5B-10-2-...athe-Replacement-Spindle-Switch-/282705625400
If it is, maybe send him a message and ask for connection diagram?

Here is a forum that he did use what you are using, maybe this will help.
https://metalworkforums.com/f309/t199703-replacing-lathe-fwd-rev-switch-hz5b
Measurements were made with no connections or jumpers.
The e-bay switch you posted is the exact one I am having trouble wiring, I think even the same vendor.
The metalworks forum discussion you posted is on a Hafco lathe, which uses an 8 terminal switch originally, unlike mine which has a 6 terminal switch.
 

Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
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Peoria, AZ
Check out the diagrams of the switches the 4 position switch should work you just disregard one position.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...1.0&pvid=88089988-2eb2-42ca-941d-d45c09844bba

I'm also wondering if the switch you already have, has the ability to have the wipers and stops swapped to reconfigure it?
4 position switch will not work unless I abandon the current lever control setup, it only latches in the "0" position, then 45 degrees up or 45 degrees down for reverse & forward.
When I get time, I will check if the switch I have now can be dis-assembled & re-configured. That would solve all my problems.
 

Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
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Peoria, AZ
OK- new plan. I was trying to answer or comment on everyone's posts when NIW called me. He said that he knew of a switch that might work, but that he couldn't find it, then dochsml posted a switch that was the one he was trying to find:
https://www.amazon.com/Changeover-T...ition+changeover+switch&qid=1582671366&sr=8-3
It appears that it will work as the original one did if I ignore position "0", then "1" becomes "1", "2" becomes "0", and "3" becomes "2".
Switch appears to be correct layout & size, the only question is what size/type of shaft is under that knob.
Anyway, I will order one and update the progress when I have something to report.
Thanks to everyone who contributed, maybe we've got this problem licked.
 
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dochsml

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L4701HST
Jan 21, 2020
216
20
18
Leonard, TX, USA
OK- new plan. I was trying to answer or comment on everyone's posts when NIW called me. He said that he knew of a switch that might work, but that he couldn't find it, then dochsml posted a switch that was the one he was trying to find:
https://www.amazon.com/Changeover-T...ition+changeover+switch&qid=1582671366&sr=8-3
It appears that it will work as the original one did if I ignore position "0", then "1" becomes "1", "2" becomes "0", and "3" becomes "2".
Switch appears to be correct layout & size, the only question is what size/type of shaft is under that knob.
Anyway, I will order one and update the progress when I have something to report.
Thanks to everyone who contributed, maybe we've got this problem licked.

I know it’s so frustrating when they just don’t make the part you need anymore. Let us know if it works. If not, there are always more ways to skin this cat.
 

Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
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Peoria, AZ
Switch should be in Friday, but I'll be leaving town for a week on the same day, so it will be a while before I can get back to it, but I will post results.
Thanks again.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I know, too late .but...
https://www.amazon.ca/Baomain-Rotar...ocphy=1002246&hvtargid=pla-391323697593&psc=1

it's just a simple, run-of-the-mill 3 phase reversing/changover switch...just be sure yours will handle the motor current !
Well yes and no, the pinout for that switch (and all of them like it), is not the same as what he needs, that's the issue.

The pinout on all of the 1, 0, 2 switches have no contact on any poles the 0 position and he need to have contact between 2 contacts in the 0 position. ;)
 

GreensvilleJay

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hmm.. if I read the wiring diagram right..SB1 is the emerg stop button, SB2 would be 'jog' . The 2 switches make KM2 'fwd', KM1 'rev'.
If that's so... then wire the lower contact of SB1 to the top of SB2 and use that connection to feed the 'fwd-off-rev' switch.
The reason the switch has to have power when 'off' is to feed the 'jog' circuit.

edit... yes sb0 is emerg stop, sb1 'main power on'.

I copied/zoomed the jpg...kinda 'rough' to read the details.....
 
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dochsml

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L4701HST
Jan 21, 2020
216
20
18
Leonard, TX, USA
hmm.. if I read the wiring diagram right..SB1 is the emerg stop button, SB2 would be 'jog' . The 2 switches make KM2 'fwd', KM1 'rev'.
If that's so... then wire the lower contact of SB1 to the top of SB2 and use that connection to feed the 'fwd-off-rev' switch.
The reason the switch has to have power when 'off' is to feed the 'jog' circuit.
SB0 would be the General Stop / E-Stop / EMO or whatever they call it on lathes (I wouldn't know). You can tell because it is a normally closed button and pressing it will cause everything to stop and make the light HL2 shut off (whatever that indicates. I'm guessing general running or something similar). HL1 will also go out while SB0 is pushed in, but will come back on once it is popped back out. I'm guessing HL1 is just to indicate that there is power on the control circuits or that the machine is ready to go into general running. SB1 is the normally open button that you would push to put the machine into general running. Pressing SB1 would engage the relay KA0 which will then hold itself on until either SB0 is pressed or FR1 opens (guessing this is a thermal protection device). Once KA0 is 'latched' in, then yes, it looks like you can jog the thing in one direction by engaging SB2. Or, you can switch the selector switch to forward or reverse for continuous running.
 

Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
7,260
2,204
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Peoria, AZ
In the pic below, the green light indicates power to the machine. The red mushroom button is an emergency stop, and must be turned a quarter turn CCW to reset after being pushed. The black button is a momentary jog button. The lever on the carriage controls spindle FWD-Off-REV.
The odd thing about this machine versus any other I have encountered is that if connected like any other machine on the planet, (except other Birmingham lathes) the power is on all the time. (green light is always on) When I first installed it, I used to pull the the plug to power it down. I have since added a readily accessible single throw, double pull toggle switch to make things easier. The PO used a wall disconnect to power down, and the only other Birmingham owner I have spoken to pulls the plug to cut power to the machine. Weird.
 

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dochsml

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Equipment
L4701HST
Jan 21, 2020
216
20
18
Leonard, TX, USA
In the pic below, the green light indicates power to the machine. The red mushroom button is an emergency stop, and must be turned a quarter turn CCW to reset after being pushed. The black button is a momentary jog button. The lever on the carriage controls spindle FWD-Off-REV.
The odd thing about this machine versus any other I have encountered is that if connected like any other machine on the planet, (except other Birmingham lathes) the power is on all the time. (green light is always on) When I first installed it, I used to pull the the plug to power it down. I have since added a readily accessible single throw, double pull toggle switch to make things easier. The PO used a wall disconnect to power down, and the only other Birmingham owner I have spoken to pulls the plug to cut power to the machine. Weird.
This is why I hesitated to call that red button that looks like an E-Stop an E-Stop. Normally an E-Stop cuts power to a main disconnect or breaker. This one just cuts power to the control circuit. If your motor contactors became stuck closed, pushing this button would not stop it from rotating.
 

dochsml

Member

Equipment
L4701HST
Jan 21, 2020
216
20
18
Leonard, TX, USA
In the pic below, the green light indicates power to the machine. The red mushroom button is an emergency stop, and must be turned a quarter turn CCW to reset after being pushed. The black button is a momentary jog button. The lever on the carriage controls spindle FWD-Off-REV.
The odd thing about this machine versus any other I have encountered is that if connected like any other machine on the planet, (except other Birmingham lathes) the power is on all the time. (green light is always on) When I first installed it, I used to pull the the plug to power it down. I have since added a readily accessible single throw, double pull toggle switch to make things easier. The PO used a wall disconnect to power down, and the only other Birmingham owner I have spoken to pulls the plug to cut power to the machine. Weird.
Also, is there another light besides the green light? The wiring diagram you attached very clearly shows two. That green one (HL1) will always be on (should go off if the red "E-Stop" is pushed in though) and another light (HL2) that should come on when you push the "General Running" button (SB1 from wiring diagram). Just want to make sure the wiring diagram shows reality (wouldn't be the first time this wasn't the case for me). I don't know jack about lathes. Is this thing European? The wiring diagram looks very European to me.
 

Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
7,260
2,204
113
Peoria, AZ
Also, is there another light besides the green light? The wiring diagram you attached very clearly shows two. That green one (HL1) will always be on (should go off if the red "E-Stop" is pushed in though) and another light (HL2) that should come on when you push the "General Running" button (SB1 from wiring diagram). Just want to make sure the wiring diagram shows reality (wouldn't be the first time this wasn't the case for me). I don't know jack about lathes. Is this thing European? The wiring diagram looks very European to me.
No second light.
Other Birmingham lathes (and their newer clones, Grizzlys) have that extra light. (or a lighted button, see pic) I suspect a generic schematic, and mine might be an early model, Dec 2004.
Lathe is Taiwanese origin, but distributed to many countries.
 

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Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
7,260
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Peoria, AZ
If your motor contactors became stuck closed, pushing this button would not stop it from rotating.
I suppose, just to be safe, I should replace my wall mounted toggle power switch with a big red mushroom stop button.
 

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dochsml

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L4701HST
Jan 21, 2020
216
20
18
Leonard, TX, USA
I suppose, just to be safe, I should replace my wall mounted toggle power switch with a big red mushroom stop button.
The switch is perfectly fine. I was going to suggest not using a twist lock type plug (so it would yank out easier in an emergency), but a switch is even better.
 

Lil Foot

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1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
7,260
2,204
113
Peoria, AZ
OK, I got back in town so here is an update. The switch suggested by dochsml & NIW
came in and is electrically correct. It has been wired in and cycled by hand & it works flawlessly!
Electrically perfect, physically not so much. As I suspected, the "0" position is 45 degrees off compared to the original. (pic #1) Rotating the switch would involve changing the mounting holes, and having to make a new "can" to cover the switch. Tons of work.
A better solution presented itself when I dis-assembled the entire switching mechanism. The lever assembly (pic #2) mounts to the carriage, and is keyed to the switch rod (46" long) by means of a key and full length keyway, allowing the switch to be operated anywhere along the length of the lathe. (pic #3) The slot in the end engages the square shaft of the switch.
Luckily, the end with the slot is a separate piece pinned to the rod with a roll pin that is easily removed (pic #4) allowing me to assemble everything without the pin, align everything, and then re-drill & re-pin or setscrew the slotted part in the correct orientation. I foresee no problem doing this.
There are a couple of minor things to address, such as the original switch mounted with screws to the back of its mount, (pic #5) and the new switch will have to mount
with screws from the front- not a big deal, I know a guy who can handle that machining.
I'll post more as I proceed.
 

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dochsml

Member

Equipment
L4701HST
Jan 21, 2020
216
20
18
Leonard, TX, USA
OK, I got back in town so here is an update. The switch suggested by dochsml & NIW
came in and is electrically correct. It has been wired in and cycled by hand & it works flawlessly!
Electrically perfect, physically not so much. As I suspected, the "0" position is 45 degrees off compared to the original. (pic #1) Rotating the switch would involve changing the mounting holes, and having to make a new "can" to cover the switch. Tons of work.
A better solution presented itself when I dis-assembled the entire switching mechanism. The lever assembly (pic #2) mounts to the carriage, and is keyed to the switch rod (46" long) by means of a key and full length keyway, allowing the switch to be operated anywhere along the length of the lathe. (pic #3) The slot in the end engages the square shaft of the switch.
Luckily, the end with the slot is a separate piece pinned to the rod with a roll pin that is easily removed (pic #4) allowing me to assemble everything without the pin, align everything, and then re-drill & re-pin or setscrew the slotted part in the correct orientation. I foresee no problem doing this.
There are a couple of minor things to address, such as the original switch mounted with screws to the back of its mount, (pic #5) and the new switch will have to mount
with screws from the front- not a big deal, I know a guy who can handle that machining.
I'll post more as I proceed.
I was worried about getting the shaft to connect. I’m glad it looks like it will work as originally intended. Once you get it going, you may want to get a backup switch. No telling how long that Chinese one is going to last. I don’t remember it being very much. Probably worth having the spare.
 

Lil Foot

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Equipment
1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
May 19, 2011
7,260
2,204
113
Peoria, AZ
Great minds think alike, I already have an extra. It is designed/built far better than the original, but I agree, low enough cost to justify a spare.
Switch was $8.19 plus shipping.
 
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