Labor charges

thepumpguysc

Member
Aug 8, 2018
267
1
16
Sunny South Carolina
Same thing happened to me, LUGBOLT..Except I wasn't on commission..
I got tired of waiting & getting "scolded" because "I wasn't doing anything"..
All the while the 5 parts people were shopping on ebay & watching movies on the business computers.!!! screw THAT..
So I retired.. I can sit at HOME & play on the computer.. Lol

BTW> the inj. shop rate when I left last year was> 115.00/hr & the drive mileage rate was 2.75/mile PLUS the 115.00/hr.!!!
THAT adds up REAL FAST when we had an "out call"..
In most cases it was a 2hr trip JUST TO GET TO the site..
I had 1 one time where there was an accident about 200yrd from the driveway of the customers place..
I sat in that truck for 2.5 hrs waiting to move.. The customer called back to the shop SCREAMING his head off..
Saying> I can SEE your service truck.!! its been 2 hrs.!!
What did this jackwad want me to do?? AND he got charged the 2.5 hrs I was sitting in traffic.!!
 
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RCW

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BX2360, FEL, MMM, BX2750D snowblower. 1953 Minneapolis Moline ZAU
Apr 28, 2013
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They responsed, I responded. Enough said. No need for the lecture...
Mister - this is true. My comment came across more stern than intended or necessary. :eek:

Sheepfarmer is just one of our favorites here...great lady! :cool:

My apologies. I sincerely wish you and yours Happy Holidays and New Year!:)

You too, Sheepfarmer!!:)
 
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sheepfarmer

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Thanks everyone for the perspectives. I can see where running a dealership or being a tech would have a variety of problems. This particular service call did not go well, and I suppose I felt grinchy about it because I had done everything I could think of to be clear as to what I wanted. I both spoke to the service manager on the phone and followed up with an email with a list of the things needing to be done. I included a list of tools that I didn't have and that stopped me from doing parts of the list, eg floor jack, and a ratcheting wrench to fit in a narrow space for the snow blower. I explained why I wanted some things done including the fact that I thought I was to blame for something being out of adjustment.

I have a nice new pole barn with concrete floor and good lighting, and which was clean. I washed the tractor that goes in the mud so he could get to the oil drains etc. I shoveled the snow off an area so he could park his truck about 5 feet from one of the tractors. I had big sheets of cardboard, newspaper, paper towels, and jugs to catch used oil. I had the manuals handy. I tried to fix it so he could work efficiently, including keeping my mouth shut so as not to be a distraction. Other service calls have gone well, but this tech is less experienced than previous one.

I have learned a lot from you all, and I believe that it is the total number of hours listed on my bill, 8.8, and the quality of those hours that is making me unhappy. I hope that the increased labor rate contributes to better benefits for the techs. There is another dealership in town that is advertising for a set up person and a service manager, so it can't be easy to get qualified staff.
 

hodge

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Thanks everyone for the perspectives. I can see where running a dealership or being a tech would have a variety of problems. This particular service call did not go well, and I suppose I felt grinchy about it because I had done everything I could think of to be clear as to what I wanted. I both spoke to the service manager on the phone and followed up with an email with a list of the things needing to be done. I included a list of tools that I didn't have and that stopped me from doing parts of the list, eg floor jack, and a ratcheting wrench to fit in a narrow space for the snow blower. I explained why I wanted some things done including the fact that I thought I was to blame for something being out of adjustment.

I have a nice new pole barn with concrete floor and good lighting, and which was clean. I washed the tractor that goes in the mud so he could get to the oil drains etc. I shoveled the snow off an area so he could park his truck about 5 feet from one of the tractors. I had big sheets of cardboard, newspaper, paper towels, and jugs to catch used oil. I had the manuals handy. I tried to fix it so he could work efficiently, including keeping my mouth shut so as not to be a distraction. Other service calls have gone well, but this tech is less experienced than previous one.

I have learned a lot from you all, and I believe that it is the total number of hours listed on my bill, 8.8, and the quality of those hours that is making me unhappy. I hope that the increased labor rate contributes to better benefits for the techs. There is another dealership in town that is advertising for a set up person and a service manager, so it can't be easy to get qualified staff.
I understand what goes in to a service call- time, tools, vehicles, salary, etc. I don't begrudge a shop for what they have to charge- I don't work for free, and neither do they. But, when the hourly rate is high (regardless of how it gets to that level), there is quite a responsibility on the service person to give maximum value for that hour. If they aren't, then the customer is being robbed. I don't blame you for your concerns- they are reasonable, especially given the lengths you went to for providing as ideal of a work situation as possible. No doubt, they often find the site much less desirable.
 

prof.fate

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Nov 9, 2017
155
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0
Beaver, PA
So they came to you? May charge a higher hourly reate for that?

I'd expect $85-100/hour for work these days, at any dealer (car, tractor, etc).

Paying for first service...perhaps. But it's basically an oil change with 2 extra filters..check some bolts (which you need to do often anyway) and lube (which again, you do often). Gotta learn to do this basic stuff yourself.

Changing implements - deck to snow blower - again, this a YOU DO IT task. No way you should be paying for it, even though on some a deck change can suck.

I can't imagine spending $880 (plus parts too?) for that work, that I could do myself for 100ish in parts and and 2 hours of time.

Appeared to be calculated by "actual" but that is part of the problem, 8.8 hours, way longer than he was here, and adding in travel time. I have already had a conversation with service manager, but perspective is needed. So any numbers would be helpful.
 

torch

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Gotta learn to do this basic stuff yourself.
I think you must have missed it, but early in this thread we established she knows how, however she is physically incapable due to age and health.
 

jkcolo22

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BX25D
Jan 5, 2017
291
4
18
Castle Rock, Colorado
So they came to you? May charge a higher hourly reate for that?



I'd expect $85-100/hour for work these days, at any dealer (car, tractor, etc).



Paying for first service...perhaps. But it's basically an oil change with 2 extra filters..check some bolts (which you need to do often anyway) and lube (which again, you do often). Gotta learn to do this basic stuff yourself.



Changing implements - deck to snow blower - again, this a YOU DO IT task. No way you should be paying for it, even though on some a deck change can suck.



I can't imagine spending $880 (plus parts too?) for that work, that I could do myself for 100ish in parts and and 2 hours of time.


***129323; go back and read the thread.


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Mister

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Jul 13, 2018
130
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18
Northwest
Mister - this is true. My comment came across more stern than intended or necessary. :eek:



Sheepfarmer is just one of our favorites here...great lady! :cool:



My apologies. I sincerely wish you and yours Happy Holidays and New Year!:)



You too, Sheepfarmer!!:)
Hey, it's all good. It's just all a misunderstanding

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edritchey

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The local Kubota dealer in my area (Messick's) charges 85 per hour in their shop and 95 per hour on the road. Seems reasonable to me. We usually do everything in house unless it's something that falls under warranty work.
 

Daren Todd

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This is gonna be long, but it's my personal experience with dealer work, and will help explain some things. You've been warned.

I started in the dealer stuff in 1992 I think it was. Stayed with it until 2008, went out on my own, then got called in to the same dealer I left to fill in while they searched for a tech. Small dealer but VERY busy. They never found a good tech and time passed me by, and I stayed. Still "there". Labor rate was $80/hr for a long time, and we did things in a combination of flat rate and actual time. Flat rate is a guide that only has to be used for warranty. It is figured by an experienced tech doing the same job 3 times consecutively, in a controlled environment (clean, tools out, etc)-basically opposite what a real world warranty repair would be. I use the guides to judge how long a job should take. 87% of the time I'm personally within flat rate. 13% of the time, I exceed the flat labor time. So if I quote someone 2.6 hours to remove a backhoe frame, and do it within that timeframe, they get charged for 2.6hr. If I do it in 3.9 hours, they get charged 2.6. If I do it in 2.3 hours, they're charged for 2.6. We try to keep it close to or a little under the quoted estimated cost. Keep reading...

In early 2018, the tiny dealership was sold to a company who owns several other dealers. The owners are good people. Good enough to keep us all there. Country folk for the most part. Anyway, not long after they took over and got their feet planted, the labor rate went to $95/hr. Many including myself were against it but I also understand how business works...has nothing to do with greed and everything to do with paying the bills. Their bills are MUCH higher than ours are, in fact, 99% of us don't understand what the break point every month is....and trust me, even in that little bitty place, it's almost 6 figures, monthly. So every dime has to count, and that is both good and bad.

Now that they've gotten settled, the labor went up, parts went up, and freight costs will rise too on 1 January, which will likely trickle down to most every other aspect of business. When the business's costs rise, they don't just "eat" it. They pass it down to the consumer. A business-of ANY kind-MUST turn some sort of profit in order to survive yet so many people don't like it. I wish I could work for free too, since I have a giving nature. But it don't work like that, unfortunately.

When the old boss ran the dealer, all that mattered was the bottom line. I personally had access to everything he did. I did parts, service, warranty, a a small amount of admin, ran back and forth between the departments constantly. Occasionally did sales. My brain moves fast so it was ok with me, just a lot of walking (~9-10 mi/day) and a lot of putting "fires" out (upset customers). Because I had access to both departments and then the parts department continually busy with phones and customers-such that they couldn't pull the parts that the shop needed, I got my own stuff-and that eliminated a LOT of errors.

Now, the new company wants to totally separate each department and I understand that. BUT the downside, we're still a little tiny dealer, with 2 parts guys who STAY busy all the time. So now, if I'm working on something and need a quart of oil or a spark plug, I carry the work order to the parts dept, put it in the "need parts" bin, and then go back to the shop & work on something else until parts show up. If I have multiple repairs going on and everything's waiting, and can't move any of them, sit & wait. I've had to wait for 2-3 weeks for a quart of gear oil to finish a customer's repair because the parts guys are too busy to pull the shop's parts. But I'm not allowed to, and I do what I'm told. The reason I haven't done it the "old" way is because these new guys need to know how it worked before and they also need to know how it's gonna work with the way THEY want it done. Yeah I am mad about it because the people who pay our bills don't like to wait and I'm the one who's got to take the brunt of the complaints. Frustrating? You bet!

So now that it takes forever to get parts, and now that we have to clock each and every service/repair job, if that job is just sitting there waiting for, parts, authorization, whatever...it's on the clock...and that time gets billed to the repair order. Customer calls and is long winded? Clocked/billed to his work order. Cleaning excessively dirty equipment? Clocked and billed at the posted labor rate. That's how simple repair jobs can get expensive. I absolutely hate it with a passion. It's not fair to the customer. It's not fair to the techs when it's out of their control. I work commission so I have to make every second count, and I work fast enough to make a little money yet slow enough to do a thorough repair. There is that fine line. Unfortunately, the delays in between are what costs. There is more to it, but that's the way most dealerships work. The little bitty mom & pop shops are the best ones, IMO, for many reasons, but they're slowly going away as bigger businesses are looking to expand constantly.

The service department was restructured in our case. I was a do-it-all tech. I was a writer, manager, and a tech, every day. Sometimes we'd take in 45 units and only get 2 or 3 out. Now, since the dealer is "bigger", they hired on a writer/manager and I'm the tech. That's great, I get to work all the time instead of answering DPF regen question phone calls 10x a day. But the downside is, that the only computer work I get to do now is to clock in and clock out. Because of that, any notes that need to be added to a R/O are done by the manager/writer. And he doesn't do a stellar job of communicating with the owner of the equipment as to what the problem, cause, and repair are. Lack of communication is the #1 cause of loss of a customer. People will pay more if they know exactly what's going on, but if they're in the dark, they're questioning things-and I don't blame them one bit. Similar to a shade-tree mechanic who'd say "I replaced yer breather filter"...yet they don't say why. Way I do things is to explain why. "found that engine was running weak because of a lack of engine airflow which was caused by an excessively dirty air filter.....replaced air filter, then re-tested". That way when the owner reads the R/O, there is no question. Thorough communication is paramount! I guess I do things differently than many. Fine. I AM different, because I genuinely care about other peoples' stuff and their needs.

The automotive industry has everyone thinking the same way. Spoiled if you will. A tiny tractor dealer such as the one I'm at is NOT going to work the same way because of a lack of space and lack of manpower. Adding space and a fancy new building is going to cost millions. Then adding 3-6 more techs, 2 parts guys, and another sales person? Potentially another $450,000 per year (just in wages alone at roughly $50k/yr)-and who's paying for it? The consumer....again, that's how business works.
Been in your situation, actually on both ends of the spectrum. The local green dealership went to how you described. Ended up firing them and using a mom and pop dealer 30 miles north of us.

The local green dealer started double billing for some stuff, and then had an automatic charge of 4 hours for computer diagnostics. Both pieces of equipment they added that charge for were mechanically governed engines. There wasn't a place to hook up there computer. Needless to say I blew up and had everyone out there in the shop ;) Asked them to show me how they hooked the computer to the engine. Well that went over really well. Got some BS about looking at codes. I blew up a second time on that since the tech was off in never never land doing something else instead of actually fixing the issue which was an obvious oil leak. Then the notes on the service ticket read like an Abbot and Costello skit. Told my boss we weren't using them again and never looked back. The mom and pop dealer is half the price and 3 times better on there diagnostics and quality.

Years ago, I worked for a company that got bought out by an investment firm. They immediately got rid of the shop mechanics. I was a field service tech so I was safe. My new resposibilties were handling the shop as well as field service. Had to fight for parts to keep the equipment running. Then the parent company went under and was bought out by a bank. We couldn't buy squat to fix the equipment. It went to a rob Peter to pay Paul to keep the rental equipment running. I lasted about a year and then went to work for a competitor.

We got bought out 5 years ago by a national rental company again. But this time they let us incorporate our business model and still handle the specialty division that we were, the way it needed to be run. That made for a smooth transition and allowed for growth. We still had to incorpote the parent companies policies and procedures, but are allowed more freedom to get things done.

My job title is shop foreman. But unlike the rest of the company where there shop foreman is just strictly in the shop. In my division the shop foreman fills in where needed as well. Some days I'm a delivery driver, others I'm a field service tech, yard guy, parts runner, shop mechanic, or salesman :)
 

dlundblad

Member

Equipment
G5200, L2501, ZD1211
May 16, 2009
503
10
18
IN
Too bad we weren't neighbors. I'd do the work for you.

80-100 or thereabouts seems fair IMO.
 

thepumpguysc

Member
Aug 8, 2018
267
1
16
Sunny South Carolina
"I" charge 50-65.00 + 1.00 a mile.. but I'm retired & do it for fun.. & to help folks out..
That's IF I have to travel..
IF I have the inj. pump HERE {dropped off} its usually a flat rate repair..
I've done so many of them I already know what its gonna cost..
 
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mattwithcats

Active member
Jun 17, 2017
772
63
28
Virginia
If the local highs scool or Community college has an auto shop class, go talk to the instructor....

Ask who is their best student, and offer that person $$ to come out and help you with the minor things, oil and oil filter, air filter, etc...

You supervise...

While some complex things will need skilled help, around 80% can be done by someone with basic knowledge....
 

MadMax31

Member

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BX23S, 60" MMM
Nov 5, 2014
766
8
18
New York
As a Tech in the HVAC industry, I can offer our perspective. We bill $120hr for industrial/commercial work. There are common repairs that we all know take XX hours with no curveballs. Add in difficult equipment access, tough parking, or over the top safety policies and the hours rack up.

If they ( Dealer ) pickup your equipment, are they billing hourly or flat rate? The mechanic performing repairs may have had to rearrange the shop to get your equipment in? Shouldn***8217;t be your problem but I dont know how Orange Dealers manifest their billing hours?

Personally Id want a better breakdown of what 8.8hrs of labor @$100 hr bought you.... Perhaps a ***8220;clerical***8221; error...
 

sheepfarmer

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L3560, B2650, Gator, Ingersoll mower
Nov 14, 2014
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Thanks everyone, the perspectives of those of you in different businesses are very helpful. And the kind thoughts of the folks that would like to help are also appreciated. I really like the people at this dealership and want to be reasonable, but as mentioned was startled at the bill. The new tech had troubles that I don't think I should have to pay for, but also if you make a federal case out of something relatively minor, (nothing got broken), it is not helpful. I would like to go on dealing with them, on the one hand, but can't afford to be that generous if this new policy is what they need to charge. Sounds like $100 per hour would be reasonable provided the work done was efficient and correct, and the hours worked are accurate. Anyway as usual I've learned a lot, some of which may be the hard way. I should have asked for more detail about expected charges. But prior house calls had been reasonable, so I didn't.
 

D2Cat

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Maybe I'm too cost conscious, but I always want to know what something is going to cost before hire anyone to do anything.

A couple of months ago I purchased a 3rd function valve kit from Kubota. After I saw what was required to install I decided to let a dealer do the work. I called two dealers to get a quote and a timeline of when it could be done and how long they would have the tractor.

I took it to the closest dealer who also had the lower price and could get to it right away. When I went to pick it up the service mgr. was having a discussion with another customer at the parts counter. Another guy had the ticket and I was in the process of giving him my CC and the serv. mgr said, "I did everything I could to keep the price where I told you. We had to add some hyd. oil, so I apologize."

He was like $7 higher that he quoted!! I believe when the vendor knows you inquired about the price, he is a bit more aware of what needs to be done to meet what he said.

I usually tell the shop, if it needs anything additional call me first.