Welding Wire

dlsmith

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Not to hijack the thread, but Miller is giving rebates on a few of their machines.

I just picked up a new Millermatic 211 machine for $1165 after rebate.
It is an inverter machine and only weighs 38 lbs. It has a new to me feature that starts the wire feed at a slower speed for a couple of seconds before coming up to the desired speed. It also has the autoset feature that allows you to set it to the wire diameter and material thickness and it does the rest. A great feature is that the fan in the machine only comes on when you are welding. Another feature is it comes with a new MDX series gun with a beter design on the nozzles.

I loaded some new INE .030 wire into it and ran a few test beads, and it does really well.

My first project with it is building a spill guard for the loader bucket. I'm having the pieces cut at a local shop and should have them in a day or two.

Back to the regularly scheduled thread.
 

bird dogger

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bd,

My Lincoln and my HF helmets use standard mercury cell watch batteries, which are not rechargeable. On those helmets, there would be no point in a charging circuit because the batteries are non-rechargeable. You would think that if they were rechargeable, they would have been fitted with rechargeable batteries from the factory. On both of these helmets, the solar sensor is a type tuned to the high UV temps encountered in welding. Both will darken in bright sunlight and when grinding if not in the "GRINDING" mode.

The reason I am trying to get the word out is, last Spring when I started a project, I had not used my Lincoln helmet in a few months. It worked perfectly when I put it away. I struck my first arc and realized my helmet never darkened. I ended up with a flash burn on my right retina. Thankfully I was welding on really low power at the time.

Thankfully, that injury has nearly healed but, it was no fun for the six months I had a spot in my vision. That is when I started researching auto darkening helmets. The Lincoln owners manual warns the user to always use the test feature to make sure the battery is good. I do that religiously now, as well as proactively changing my battery annually. The HF helmet is very very vague in any mention of the battery, other than saying "It SHOULD last four or five years." It has no test feature and your first clue the battery is toast is when it fails. Not good.

Your eyes are precious. Without them, doing anything becomes a lot harder. The get plenty cranky with normal age. No need to beat them up like I did.

Just a word of caution...
Cave Creek, first let me say that I did not intend to step on anyone's toes, but only to clear up/explain that there are basically two types of photo cells and the statements made previously leave a cloudy perception of what does what on an auto darkening helmet. After all, the more people know, the better judgements they can make on purchasing/maintaining that critical piece of protective gear. So I responded for the sake of everyone interested. I took pictures of two of my helmets that will illustrate what I tried to explain earlier.

First; Here's a nice little tutorial on the two basic types of light sensors and their applications: https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/io/io_4.html
The tutorial basically says photoelectric devices can be grouped into two main categories. One generates a DC output. The other changes its electrical characteristics and acts like a switch.

First type: Photo-voltaic Cells; These photodevices generate an emf (voltage) in proportion to the radiant light energy received. The most common type of photovoltaic light sensor is the Solar Cell. Solar cells convert light energy directly into DC electrical energy in the form of a voltage or current to power a resistive load. Then photovoltaic cells are similar in many ways to a battery because they supply DC power.

Second type: Photo-junction Devices; These photodevices are mainly true semiconductor devices such as the photodiode or phototransistor which use light to control the flow of electrons and holes across their PN-junction. Photojunction devices are specifically designed for detector application (sensing) and light penetration with their spectral response tuned to the wavelength of incident light. Photo diodes fall into this latter category. Photodiodes are very versatile light sensors that can turn its current flow both ON and OFF in nanoseconds. (These are what do the highspeed switching for the auto darkening feature on the helmets.)

I previously did not say that the solar cells are there for recharging batteries. They are there to AID the batteries and prolong their use. Although there may be rechargeable batteries in the newer helmets. I don't know. Mine are older versions: A Jackson and a Millermatic. For the pics I have removed the clear plastic shields so one can see the two types of photo cells.

Not sure why the photos aren't inserted properly but do follow correctly from left to right.

First up is the Millermatic that has both the Photovoltaic cells (solar cells) that are used to aid the battery voltage and the Photo Diode cells that do the actual sensing of the arc and switch on the auto darkening (in nano seconds to protect the eyes). You'll see the solar cells across and above the viewing area. You'll see two Photo Diode cells beneath the solar cells at opposite corners and behind two small square holes. There's two so that if one fails the other will still do the switching.
Here's a pic of the control panel for this helmet. The small button cell battery is inside the panel. Rechargeable? Not sure but the first thing I do when picking up the helmet is to turn it on and test it. If it doesn't auto darken, I don't use it but put it outside in the sun for a day or more and use the other helmet. But even rechargeable batteries go bad over time so at some point I'll have to dig into it or trash it. This control panel is sealed up.

My second helmet, the Jackson, also an auto darkening helmet but without the solar cells. But notice it does have the two photo diodes for sensing and again, they're what does the highspeed switching to save your eyes. (Not the solar cells)

Here's the control panel: Notice the batteries in this one. Two AAA batteries for power. Why? With no photovoltaic (solar) cells to aid the battery's voltage, much larger batteries are needed to keep power to the auto darkening sensor circuit. If this type of helmet only had button cells your actual welding time would be drastically less. Again, with this helmet, the power on button is also the test button and should be the first thing on one's mind when you pick it up. Especially if it hasn't been used for a while.

I'm sure there's advances in the newer helmets. I'm tempted to buy one just for the larger viewing area. The newer ones also seem to become clearer when in the off mode when not welding. One important factor to note with either style helmet is to keep the lens shield clean! Especially the area around the photo detectors! As a dirty shield can lead to faulty switching of the auto darkening. I agree with you in that one's eyes are extremely precious!

So, there you have my version of the two types of photo cells as used in these helmets. Is one better than the other? Don't know. Maybe a professional welder would have a preference. Otherwise it's ones personal choice. But the two types of photo cells aren't like tissue paper and Kleenex. They are two distinctive types for two distinctive purposes. And that's what I wanted to point out. Hope this helps to explain some of what does what when you look at the helmet that you do have. There's many different types and options. Now, everybody go change your batteries and then make sure your protective shield is clean and scratch free! Especially over the photo diodes!! (located behind the little holes) :)
Regards,
David
 

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lugbolt

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I had the best welding teacher--EVER (at least for stick, oxy/acet, and MIG). My dad.

We bought a 37 chevy pickup and of course it needed all kinds of welding done to it. I mean a LOT. We got started by boxing the frame and dad handed me the stinger and said get after it. Never done it and boy did I screw that up, and dad's not a "great teacher"--aside from riding your butt until you do it somewhat right. Since I was a noob, he took me back into the garage and handed me the torch with a small brazing tip on it, and put a small piece of flat steel stock on the table and told me he wanted me to make a puddle, and later on had me working the puddle across the steel stock. Little did I know that oxy-acetylene "puddling" is an important key to most types of welding. I got real good with the torch and dad had me finish boxing the frame on the '37 with hangers and oxy/acetylene. It came out really nice. Oxy-acetylene welding is also really similar to TIG (GTAW) but the difference is that you're using electricity to create the heat rather than fire. TIG is pretty complicated and requires some dexterity; which I don't have a lot of as I age.

But I suggest if you have it, grab your torch set, grab a welding (brazing) tip and practice making a puddle of molten steel, then move it around while keeping the puddle the same size the entire time. Once you can master that, you can do MIG, TIG, stick.

I (or "we"--my dad and I) built a small enclosed trailer from nothing but tubing, angle iron, and flat stock, with the torch and hangers. You wouldn't think it last with hangers as filler material but we had and pulled that thing for over 10 years all over the midwest, loaded with go-kart with a bunch of spare parts inside. Plywood sides and roof were beginning to rot when we sold it, but the frame parts were in great shape. May I stress that it was WELDED (not brazed), meaning two similar materials were melted and joined together. Brazing, is simply adding a filler without melting the two base metals together-and there are specific filler rods for that.
 

SidecarFlip

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How I started out, gas welding using coat hangers for filler rod. Stuck a lot of stuff together way back then. Don't use them much anymore but I have my gas axe in the corner 'just in case. OA welding is the basis for every welding discipline and that reminded me, I need to take my oxygen bottle in and exchange it. I have the big bottles that you cannot buy anymore.

I believe you can only purchase (own) 40 CuFt bottles now. Don't mind exchanging bottles for the OA torches but my mixed gas and Argon bottles I own and get filled. Have my name on them and don't mind waiting for them a week or so.
 

D2Cat

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How I started out, gas welding using coat hangers for filler rod. Stuck a lot of stuff together way back then. Don't use them much anymore but I have my gas axe in the corner 'just in case. OA welding is the basis for every welding discipline and that reminded me, I need to take my oxygen bottle in and exchange it. I have the big bottles that you cannot buy anymore.

I believe you can only purchase (own) 40 CuFt bottles now. Don't mind exchanging bottles for the OA torches but my mixed gas and Argon bottles I own and get filled. Have my name on them and don't mind waiting for them a week or so.
Now Flip....how can you weld with plastic? That's all I see for coat hangers?:D
 

CaveCreekRay

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David,

Thanks for the info on helmets. It's important for everyone using an auto-darkening helmet to understand the "care and feeding" of that helmet. I just wanted people to understand that just because a helmet has a solar array on it does not mean that is is auto charging. And, as you suggest, even an older model that charges off ambient UV will eventually need a new battery.

My Lincoln Viking helmet is one of the newer designs. It uses the watch battery as the lens powering source and the photo cells simply as the trigger like the adjustable Light Level Sensing Circuit in your link. Without a battery, the auto darkening feature is inoperative.

Some older helmets have no TEST feature so they are suspect. The Harbor Freight helmet is one of those types and is widely used by home welders.

Everybody be safe out there.
 

SidecarFlip

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Mine has the 'test' button (Miller) and I test it before every use.
 

SidecarFlip

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Now Flip....how can you weld with plastic? That's all I see for coat hangers?:D
Giving my age away again. Guess I should have said, old school coat hangers. I wonder if wire coat hangers are still available? Have to look...
 

D2Cat

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Flip, I was putting a T shirt on this morning and it made me think of when those shirts had tags at the collars. Now they just use ink to print what they want you to know, and after a few washes it's barely readable. Heck, it's difficult to find a T shirt with pockets any more.

Oh, to keep it on topic, when you weld never wear synthetic material in your outer clothes (it can melt right on your skin), and wear leather boots to protect your feet.

Times are a changing!
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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It's important for everyone using an auto-darkening helmet to understand the "care and feeding" of that helmet.
Everybody be safe out there.
I have a 20 year old solar charged helmet that I use, it's never failed me.
I like it better than the battery powered models.
It was not a cheap model when I bought it.
I take and flick a bic lighter if it's too dark or just look towards the sun to make sure it's working before I start welding.
I has UV burns to my eyes (feels like you have sand in them), not fun at all!
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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When you weld never wear synthetic material in your outer clothes (it can melt right on your skin), and wear leather boots to protect your feet.

Times are a changing!
Oh come on...Mesh top breathable tennies are the best, they keep you moving around while you weld! :D
You weld and get exercise stomping around from the burns! :eek:
 

SidecarFlip

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Oh come on...Mesh top breathable tennies are the best, they keep you moving around while you weld! :D
You weld and get exercise stomping around from the burns! :eek:
Reminds me of the time I was gas axing an exhaust system off a car and cut a U clamp and the red hot end dropped in my boot (my pant leg git inside as I was sitting down on the ground while cutting.) I smelled it before I felt it, smelled like steak cooking...lol

Burned right through my leather boot side, still have a heck of a scar from it. Never got infected. Got cauterized instead.

Man that hurt. Sometimes lessons come hard.
 

dlsmith

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Oh come on...Mesh top breathable tennies are the best, they keep you moving around while you weld! :D
You weld and get exercise stomping around from the burns! :eek:
How about when a nearly red hot 3/4" lock washer drops into the cuff of your leather gloves. The worst part was the gloves were pretty snug and it took a couple of seconds to get them off. It never really hurt that bad, I assume because it cauterized the nerves. Healed up pretty well in about six weeks.
Left a big reminder though.
 

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CaveCreekRay

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Yikes!

Reminds me of doing pistol training. We'd get ladies in with V-neck T-shirts and we'd have to pull them aside and explain "hot brass." We'd try to place the most "vulnerable" ladies next to the revolver shooters. :)

Safety FIRST (ahem).
 

Lil Foot

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I think every guy who ever welded anything has some kind of an injury story.
Back when I still had hair, I went through a phase of a "Grizzly Adams" full beard.
(you can see where this is going)
I was on a creeper, under a low car, tack welding exhaust pipe, with my whole upper body covered in leather, and a full welder's helmet. Somehow a blob of molten steel bounced off my chest, under the helmet, & into my beard. Took me a few seconds to realize the beard was burning, and then an eternity to shut off the torch & scramble out from under the car. About a third of the beard was on fire & the offending blob was too deep in the beard to knock loose, so I ran to the garden hose & hit myself in the face with water. I lost most of the beard, but luckily sustained no burn injuries, but lots of bumps & cuts getting out from under the car. Had that burning hair smell in my nostrils for weeks.
 

dlsmith

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Oh, and the worst thing to happen when having to lie on your side cutting or welding and an errant sizzling BB rolls into an ear. I have a permanently scarred right eardrum that any doctor that looks in there asks about it.
 

SidecarFlip

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My Miller is an older solar powered hood and I looked yesterday for a battery backup, there is none that is accessable inside or outside. I do keep it laying on top of the TIG machine with the panel facing up when not is use, which is a pain because the view plate cover gets dusty.

Always test it with the button before use as well.
 

SidecarFlip

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Just bought a 10 pound box of manganese base hard surface rod from Amazon (delivered yesterday). Lincoln Abrasoweld is very hard to get around here for some reason. Even my AirGas distributor where I get my bottles filled (at the compressor facility) don't have it.

Need to hard rod the bottom of my snow plow shoes, the underside of the skid plates on my disc bine as well.

Got the rod yesterday with instructions that say to 'bake' the rod at 300 - 350 degrees C for an hour prior to use so I looked up 300-350 C. That is 575 degrees (f) minimum for an hour. Now, I have to figure out what I can attain that temperature with.

Thinking my wife's electric oven on self clean?

After 'baking' I wonder of storing it in a rod box is sufficient. Not going to use it all at once.