Water in Hydraulic Fluid

jsmoor · Mar 30, 2020

Somehow the rear oil cap situated at the back of the tractor (B2650 HST) between the two lift arms came out. It's stored under cover and I don't think its been missing for long, otherwise I would have noticed. I did however get some water in there when I was spraying it off before doing some routine maintenance. Not a lot but enough to cause concern. So my question is what to do?

My thoughts are:
1. Leave it open in hopes that it evaporates.
2. Over fill with hydraulic fluid and hope the water gets pushed out
3. Change the fluid - don't know if this is necessary and could potentially
expose more parts to water.
4. Something else I'm not thinking of

Thoughts?

North Idaho Wolfman · Mar 30, 2020

Your ONLY option is to drain it completely without moving it!
If you do move it you can do damage to the HST, they do not like water!

Also change the filters!

GreensvilleJay · Mar 31, 2020

re: #1....
Oil floats on water ! One of them 'physics things'.... so it'll NEVER evaporate. Given enough time, it WILL settle to the lowest point of the HST that it can get to, providing you do NOT run the engine.

The ONLY option is to drain the HST and replace filter. If possible ,allow HST to drain for 1-2-3 days, at the very minimum a long overnight session. The more it drains, the more watery-oil will come out.

When I rebuilt a 'drained' JD HST, 2 days later it was still dripping into the bucket ! Oil don't come out fast.....

GeoHorn · Mar 31, 2020

jsmoor said:
Somehow the rear oil cap situated at the back of the tractor (B2650 HST) between the two lift arms came out. It's stored under cover and I don't think its been missing for long, otherwise I would have noticed. I did however get some water in there when I was spraying it off before doing some routine maintenance. Not a lot but enough to cause concern. So my question is what to do?

My thoughts are:
1. Leave it open in hopes that it evaporates.
2. Over fill with hydraulic fluid and hope the water gets pushed out
3. Change the fluid - don't know if this is necessary and could potentially
expose more parts to water.
4. Something else I'm not thinking of

Thoughts?

DON’T RUN IT!

HOW do you KNOW?

How do you know you got water in it? If you RAN the engine with water in the hydraulics then the water will be mixed-in with the hyd-fluid and will likely turn “milky”. That would be bad and will be difficult to clean out without multiple hyd-oil changes.

IF you got water in it, then the water should settle to the bottom of the oil. But predicting how much and where it settled is not something easily determined. Presumeably the drain plugs are the lowest point. If it were mine, I think I’d drain a gallon or two out after a few days of sitting still....and see if I can find any water in it.
If I DID find water I’d do a complete changeout of the system. If not then I’d run it awhile and then check to see if there’s any indication of water having mixed into it.

Full Disclosure: I’ve never actually done this in a tractor, but I have experienced it when another vehicle was submerged in a stream-crossing. The hydraulic system fluid (a red H5606 hydraulic oil similar to transmission fluid) became very “pink” or “milky” . This was many miles deep into a forest and we had no choice but to continue operating until returning to civilization, where we deliberately overfilled/overflowed the system by pouring several gallons of new hyd-fluid into the fill-neck while the engine and pump was running, until the milky appearance returned to solid red. It was not the best way to do it, but it worked and had no issues for more years of operations. (This was back in the early ‘60s and EPA had not yet been created.)

bearbait · Mar 31, 2020

What NIW said. Also when you drain it leave the drain pug out over night along with leaving the filters off. In my experience with putting a mid pto in my 3560 it takes a long time to drain completely.

Tire Biter · Mar 31, 2020

Drain the oil out (all of it) and plug the fill port and trans. vent and pull a vacuum on it with a vacuum pump. Back when I used to work, I serviced commercial refrigeration equipment and occasionally I’d work on water chillers that burst the HX tubes and flood the refrigeration system with water. Hours under a vacuum and several oil changes and the system would be moisture free and returned to service. Water will boil at room temp when in a 30” vacuum.

North Idaho Wolfman · Mar 31, 2020

Tire Biter said:
Drain the oil out (all of it) and plug the fill port and trans. vent and pull a vacuum on it with a vacuum pump. Back when I used to work, I serviced commercial refrigeration equipment and occasionally I’d work on water chillers that burst the HX tubes and flood the refrigeration system with water. Hours under a vacuum and several oil changes and the system would be moisture free and returned to service. Water will boil at room temp when in a 30” vacuum.

OH NO! Doing that would destroy every seal in the transmission, internally and externally.

I get where your thinking was going, but it simply won't work on these.

Tx Jim · Apr 1, 2020

I agree the only thing that will cause water to evaporate is heat of operation plus an open breather hole for water vapors to exit. BUT operation of hydro trans with water contaminated oil is not a good option.

Water weighs 8.3#s per gallon while oil weighs 7.2 #s per gallon so if oil doesn't have additive to absorb water the water will settle below the oil.

I agree best method to remove water from reservoir is drain & install new oil

Mlarv · Apr 1, 2020

Maybe try this

before anybody yells at me I am guessing and asking if this would work. Could you drain it then run some alcohol though it to absorb the water, then let it dry and refill? By run it I mean put the drain plug in fill it then drain it again. Or will the alcohol be better to drink while you watch it drain the oil and water?

Mike

Fluke631 · Apr 1, 2020

No alcool needed, I have seen many hydraulic contamination in the helicopter world. The only way was stated above. Drain and refill

If you ran it already it's a bit more complicated. You need to flush out all the systems, cylinders etc.

I also suggest a full flush. Drain refill, overfill, drain again. Don't forget to let it sit once you refilled it so you can see when you pull the drain plug if you have water.

Water is always at the lowest point after a good settle.

boz1989 · Apr 1, 2020

I would recommend drinking the alcohol, your tractor seals might not like it as much as you, but I don't know this as a fact.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 1, 2020

Re: Maybe try this

Mlarv said:
before anybody yells at me I am guessing and asking if this would work. Could you drain it then run some alcohol though it to absorb the water, then let it dry and refill? By run it I mean put the drain plug in fill it then drain it again. Or will the alcohol be better to drink while you watch it drain the oil and water?

Mike

Yea drink it, or use it to decontaminate everything within your reach, but keep it out of the hydraulic sump, no good could come of that!

GeoHorn · Apr 1, 2020

Alcohol is BAD for rubber seals and gaskets. That is one reason to NOT USE transmission or power-steering “leak stop” or such snake oils...they contain alcohol.

Alcohol will SWELL seals and gaskets ...and TEMPORARILY might reduce or stop leaks. But when the softened seals return after that alcohol evaporates... they will leak all over again...usually worse!

And alcohol used to attract water in the transmission... will also eventually evaporate...and leave that water right back where it found it. And your seals/gaskets will be damaged.

Bulldog · Apr 1, 2020

Assuming you haven't cranked it a single drain of fluid will fix your problem. If you have cranked it the entire system is contaminated and will require multiple drain and refills to flush the system.

That cheap plastic cap may cost you a $1000 before you get it clean.

Tire Biter · Apr 1, 2020

North Idaho Wolfman said:
OH NO! Doing that would destroy every seal in the transmission, internally and externally.

I get where your thinking was going, but it simply won't work on these.

Ok don’t do that

How about just opening every port and heating up the case? Drain all the oil first aim some infrared heaters at it and evaporate the water?

JerryMT · Apr 1, 2020

jsmoor said:
Somehow the rear oil cap situated at the back of the tractor (B2650 HST) between the two lift arms came out. It's stored under cover and I don't think its been missing for long, otherwise I would have noticed. I did however get some water in there when I was spraying it off before doing some routine maintenance. Not a lot but enough to cause concern. So my question is what to do?

My thoughts are:
1. Leave it open in hopes that it evaporates.
2. Over fill with hydraulic fluid and hope the water gets pushed out
3. Change the fluid - don't know if this is necessary and could potentially
expose more parts to water.
4. Something else I'm not thinking of

Thoughts?

If you haven't started the tractor, the water will collect at the bottom of the sump, Drain a quart or two out and then wait a day and drain another. Check for water. (Drain it into a glass jar so you can see the oil/water interface.). Do that until what you drain has no more water, or until you run out of fluid in the machine.

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 1, 2020

Tire Biter said:
Ok don’t do that

How about just opening every port and heating up the case? Drain all the oil first aim some infrared heaters at it and evaporate the water?

That might help too.

GeoHorn · Apr 2, 2020

Tire Biter said:
Ok don’t do that

How about just opening every port and heating up the case? Drain all the oil first aim some infrared heaters at it and evaporate the water?

I hope you have a lot of spare time. (It might take a lot longer than a virus quarantine to accomplish the desired results...especially if the water has already mixed with the oil.)

If it were mine, I think I’d put some cheap hyd fluid in it, run it to thoroughly mix it all up and then drain it again. And again, if necessary. But after the majority of the water is gone, it should be fine to operate until the rest dissipates.

Back to an earlier question: How do you KNOW your power washing the tractor injected water? Have you attempted a sampling of the hyd fluid?

jsmoor · Apr 10, 2020

Thanks everyone! I changed the fluid and filters after letting it drain for a couple of days. I think I dodged a bullet. I saw no evidence of water so I must have lucked out. I really appreciate everyone's input.

bearbait · Apr 11, 2020

jsmoor said:
Thanks everyone! I changed the fluid and filters after letting it drain for a couple of days. I think I dodged a bullet. I saw no evidence of water so I must have lucked out. I really appreciate everyone's input.

Awesome, thanks for letting us know.

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