What type and size of rock/other for this wet hillside?

[Flintknapper]

I have a soggy spot in a Spring Branch that I've been throwing brick into (have a lot more brick to put on it) trying to create a hard bottom or short path across it.

The hillside leading down to it (see pic) is not real steep but is literally a slowly seeping 'spring'. It varies in wetness depending upon the weather conditions from one month to another.

I am wanting to bring in some rock/gravel/crushed concrete/other to spread on the soil leading down to the brick/crossing. Not wanting to create an actual road but just enough to tighten up the soil there.

It will be used infrequently and rain water doesn't really wash it (at present). Its just the spring water seeping from the hillside that keeps things wet and a bit soggy.

The traffic that would be going over it (occasionally) would be a 4wd drive tractor, a 4 wheeler and a 4wd Land Cruiser.

Would some fairly large rock (2-3") spread and compacted make a bit harder path....or would I need to take another approach?

There isn't room for any heavy equipment back there, whatever needs to be done would have to be done with a tractor.

I recognize the hillside being a 'spring' presents a unique challenge. Thanks for any advice.

 

[D2Cat]

I had a similar problem with water in a low spot I needed to cross while haying. I did like you, put every rock I could find, in the area trying to get a base so I could drive my 730 two wheel drive Case across it.

Finally after a couple of years of rocks and still wet, I took my trencher and went into the field about 50' and cut a trench a couple feet deep. I laid two rows of 4" perforated drain pipe, and stood on the pipe as I put the rocks I dug out back on top of the pipe.

That was ten years ago and it's dry all the time now. That two hour job saved a lot of grief!!

 

[Russell King]

I would use 3 to 5 inch rip rap (limestone since that is easy to get in this area).

you may want to dig out a few inches down and fill that in but you could also install a French drain so the water will drain across faster. Put a deeper dry well on the bottom side maybe.

You might also put 3/4 inch minus on top to keep it smoother and less muddy.

 

[Flintknapper]

I think its going to be a situation where I just have to keep adding material to whatever I put down....in the hopes that over time, it will create a somewhat solid path down to the crossing.

The crossing itself will not be a problem. I have plenty of brick to build that up. Its the downhill path to the crossing (about 15' wide and 50' long) that needs to be addressed. The entire hillside to the right of the path (in pic) is 'weeping' spring. We are talking about 4 acres of hillside that drains and forms a 'branch' at its lowest point.

French drains and the like would have to be massive to have any effect. Fortifying the soil (rock/gravel) by putting some down and driving over it (time and again) I believe is my only solution. Just not really certain what size will be best for that.

Thinking initally.....2.5-3" crushed rock/conrete and then follow up later with smaller stuff to fill any voids. If anyone has had experience with something similar....I'm all ears. Thank You in advance. Flint.

 

[Russell King]

There are some types of underlayment that help keep the rocks from sinking into the ground. Here is an example. I don’t know how/if they work actually but you may want to look into them.

https://www.amazon.com/Super-Geotextile-Woven-17-5x100/dp/B09JN8WGH8/ref=asc_df_B09JN8WGH8?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79852230888582&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=74252&hvtargid=pla-4583451694465814&th=1

You may want to look into geo cells also. Again I am not sure if they would help but just trying to give you things to consider.

Good luck

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

You need the angular sharp edges of rip rap. As others mentioned.
Cobbles and brick won't do it for long. Because they are soft and have smooth edges.
As mentioned, put in drainline under.
If driving equipment over it, put the drainline deep and use sch40 pvc or abs. The corrugated pipe will crush if not deep enough.

 

[Flintknapper]

You need the angular sharp edges of rip rap. As others mentioned.
Cobbles and brick won't do it for long. Because they are soft and have smooth edges.
As mentioned, put in drainline under.
If driving equipment over it, put the drainline deep and use sch40 pvc or abs. The corrugated pipe will crush if not deep enough.

Agree with sharp edges and was making that same point to my brother just yesterday. Brick will be fine in the area that I have it.... as it is only there to make a hard 'bottom' where the branch flows through. I'll post a pick of the smaller bricks once in place that will tie everything together.

The challenge will be the path down to the crossing which is a hillside (not easily depicted until I get to the other side and show it going uphill. Hard to see the angle. Not terribly steep, but its a virtual spring.

 

[jaxs]

As long as the hillside remains seepy I think rocks will sink and require more from time to time. I presently live N West of you on Black-Heiden-Wilson soil but grew up on and family still lives on Gasil-Crosstell-Duffau along Red River. There are many areas on GCD like you described. When my older brother and two uncles returned from Korea my Granddad gave them adjoining 10 acres each, much of which trembled when walked on. They put fence around it and stocked it with hogs. Dad and Granddad warned them that they would loose hogs in the swamp but it never happened. Within a couple months sows wallowed out several bathtub size ponds and ground between hardly boggy. By 10 months, in addition to sows there were 200-300 pound offspring everywhere and all that remained of swamp was two swimming pool size ponds with small streams flowing from each. Hogs were sold over 60 years ago and cows have grazed land since.

Based on that experience, other areas where there was risk of old or heavy pregnant cows bogging down, were managed to become ponds and/or trickling streams.

 

[Flintknapper]

Put a little more brick in the 'crossing' area (larger brick) and will now start putting in the smaller 'filler' bricks. As soon as I feel it will support the tractor I am going to drive over it and see how much of it get pressed into the mud bottom of the spring branch.

I'm confident I can create a hard bottom there (if not an actual brick crossing). But will still need to put some gravel/rock down on the path leading to the crossing. As previously mentioned, there is a slight incline leading to the crossing and presently that soil is wet and not supportive.

Since the hillside is a slowly seeping 'spring' it will certainly take multiple applications of 'something' to fortify the soil.

This photo from the other side looking 'uphill' hopefully shows that path isn't real steep, but is wet.

I'll post pics later when I get the filler bricks in place and tamped down some. Then on to the real challenge....which will be the path leading to it.

 

[D2Cat]

With water crossing your desired road you will never get enough rock pilled in the path to keep crossing the path with anything of weight. The ground will remain soft and allow all material to sink. You need a method to contain the water as it flow under your path, like a culvert.

 

[BAP]

Without some sort of a pipe, you are just creating a dam and actually increasing your wet area. Water needs somewhere to go and all the bricks and possibly stones if you add them, will become plugged up with dirt and create a dam.

 

[Flintknapper]

Without some sort of a pipe, you are just creating a dam and actually increasing your wet area. Water needs somewhere to go and all the bricks and possibly stones if you add them, will become plugged up with dirt and create a dam.

At the crossing itself....the goal is simply to create a 'hard bottom'. It matters not that silt will top the bricks (to some degree) as water flows over it. I expect there to be water and some silt/mud flowing over the crossing. That is not the area I am concerned with.

The path leading down to the crossing....is likely going to be the challenge. The entire hillside is a slowly weeping 'spring'. It varies as to how much water it produces by season. You'd almost have to see it in person to understand the issue, particularly since I've not been very good at describing it.

I am pretty sure I can add (and compact) rock/gravel over time....well enough to fortify the soil there. Time will tell if I am correct or it was a fool's errand.

Thanks to all for your input.

 

[D2Cat]

Your goal, "the goal is simply to create a 'hard bottom'" is not going to happen with water present all the time.

 

[Russell King]

You may be able to divert the water under ground to a larger area that is less wet. Look into key line plowing for the theory of using a chisel plow to cut the soil and gather or disperse the water in the soil. Of course you may not even have much soil or anywhere to move it to.

 

[Flintknapper]

You may be able to divert the water under ground to a larger area that is less wet. Look into key line plowing for the theory of using a chisel plow to cut the soil and gather or disperse the water in the soil. Of course you may not even have much soil or anywhere to move it to.

There is a little of room to the left of the path that drops off pretty steeply and is actually the 'end' of the horseshoe shaped hillside. But not really any room to manuver a tractor and the entire area is trees and tree roots.

Otherwise, I see what you are proposing and it would channel underground water a direction.

 

[Flintknapper]

Your goal, "the goal is simply to create a 'hard bottom'" is not going to happen with water present all the time.

Respectfully, I disagree. But....I will be the first to come back here and admit I was wrong (if I am). Of course it will be awhile before we know. It will take some traffic and time to see how much the bricks settle.

But I will post pics as things develop. Thank you for your advice. Flint

 

[NCL4701]

You'd almost have to see it in person to understand the issue, particularly since I've not been very good at describing it.

This is exactly why I rarely respond to drainage questions. Looking at it in person, usually not too difficult to figure out something. Looking at pics and a description, even if both are excellent, I’m not as useful. With that disclaimer…

Looking at the uphill/downhill pics, specifically the muddy area not bricked, I’m kind of wondering if it’s practical to cut in a ditch on both sides and build up the center with the spoils from the ditches, then add rock to the resulting short berm to help stabilize it after giving it a couple weeks to dry a bit. We have a few similar areas and I’ve generally found water that sort of seeps from a broad area on a slope will exit that area via the shortest path to the surface. Cutting a ditch somewhere through the soggy area, the water usually comes out in the bottom of the ditch and flows away via the ditch, leaving the surrounding area relatively dry.

Dumping bricks in the area with flowing surface water: IME should work, with the caveat you’ll likely have to add more material once in a while. We have a couple areas like that as well. In our cases, a culvert or bridge would be “nice” as they’d both have a much longer service life, but it doesn’t take a very refined crossing for a side by side or 4WD tractor and fiddling with them for a few minutes a couple times a year is a decent trade off for a $0 price tag in our case.

You can see it. I can’t. If the above is inapplicable to your situation, please ignore it.

 

[Flintknapper]

Looking at the uphill/downhill pics, specifically the muddy area not bricked, I’m kind of wondering if it’s practical to cut in a ditch on both sides and build up the center with the spoils from the ditches, then add rock to the resulting short berm to help stabilize it after giving it a couple weeks to dry a bit.

^^^^^^

Hmmmm......you know that might just work. Thank You.