Help needed, G2160 won't start

Kaiten

New member

Equipment
G2160, G1800, ZD221, and L3800
Apr 15, 2021
28
0
1
Houston TX
Hello, everybody. New member here.

I recently acquired a G2160 garden tractor with 54" belly mower, less than 400 hours. The machine was not running very strong. It bogged down when cutting even short grass. But it started right away when it was cold. I did all the services - oil change, hydraulic oil change, fuel filter change, mower blades and belt change, and greased every joint.

After realizing it's not running as strong as it should, I contacted the seller, who claimed that he cleaned the fuel injector pump recently. I bought 3 new injectors and changed the old ones out. The machine was not getting any stronger. Also, the machine became more and more difficult to start after ran for 20 min. After cool it down, it would start again.

One of my friends told me that Sea Foam would help cleaning the fuel line. I ran low on the diesel, then added two can of sea foam in the tank. Ran the machine hard for almost 2 hours. After that, I added more diesel to it.

Couple days later, I ran it again for about 30 min, while cutting some grass, the engine died. Ever since, I could not get it running anymore.

Had a local guy coming to my place to check. We added starter fluid to the air filter, and no start. He put his hand inside the air filter, and felt very little suction. Starter was fine, but not able to start the engine.

Called a local shop. They charge $120 to come out to take a look. But over the phone, the guy said that it must be the Sea Foam messed up my fuel line.

What do you think? What can I do to approve/disapprove? How to further diagnose?

Thanks in advance!
 

Dave_eng

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M7040, Nuffield 465
Oct 6, 2012
5,108
926
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Williamstown Ontario Canada
NEVER let anyone use starter fluid on your Kubota!!!

Since you know how to remove injectors, doing a compression test is the fast way to determine the internal condition of the engine.

Buy a compression gauge suitable for a diesel engine.

$42 buys a cheap one good enough to help you find out the engine condition.

Compression tester

The seller "cleaned" the fuel injection pump. That is not a job for a novice and further must have been done because there was already a serious a problem.

The "cleaning" likely created an additional problem.

Try and find out why the injection pump was cleaned.

Any sign of oil in the radiator?

Dave
 
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docwatson

New member
Nov 20, 2012
4
1
3
Picayune MS Usa
Thanks. Am I able to test compression without able to turn on the engine?
Yes, remove all the injectors , screw the compression gauge into the hole and spin the motor. Do each cylinder. Write down the reading for each cylinder. Look up the acceptable pressure reading.
 
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lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
4,807
1,575
113
Mid, South, USA
yep compression test is in order particularly after shooting starting fluid to it. Good chance of bent rods and possibly broken pistons. Maybe (not likely) a cracked crankshaft. You want to see ~500 psi compression. 380 is the absolute minimum for it to reliably start, and at 380 it will be hard to start. U need a special adapter for the compression gauge and a gauge with a hose that is rated for 1000 psi minimum. Typically this is a diesel-only compression gauge. Make sure you disable the fuel injection when doing a compression test. On these engines, if you find bent rods due to starting fluid ingestion, you are going to be diligent in inspecting the entire rotating and reciprocating parts of the engine extremely well. I've seen broken ring lands, broken rings, bent/broken/cracked wrist pins and pin bores, cracked fillets at the rod journals on the crankshaft, twisted crankshafts, lots and lots and lots of bent rods, head gaskets. Gotta really be careful with the stuff. A twisted crankshaft will never run properly, it will vibrate be low on power or rattle, or sometimes over time it'll just break and take out the entire engine with it. Similar with bent rods. I've known some who just keep running with bent rods because "there ain't nothing wrong with it", and eventually the rod just breaks-and takes out everything else with it (head, block, crank, cam, etc). Some of those instances are rarities but I'm not going to say which. Just be aware that starting fluid is bad.

it was probably starving for fuel to begin with. That could have been due to many things, such as (but not limited to) a restriction at the fuel tank outlet, plugged primary or secondary fuel filter, failing lift pump, failing injection pump. The post didn't specify what steps were taken to diagnose by the previous owner, but injectors and pump are last resort items and they generally don't fail for thousands of hours. When I did dealer work, sometimes a customer would request replacement of injection pump, and I can't change their mins, thus I did it as requested, and sent it back with the same problem it had before. But other times, the pump was bad, just usually related to one of two things: owner "bleeding the lines" (like you see on TV, loosen the lines at the pump end--which is a no-no on kubota), or it had water or gas in it at some point. Normally it was the former. Once or twice that I can remember, someone attempted to remove a pump incorrectly and bent the rack, which ruined the pump. But a failed pump outside those instances didn't happen, not on mechanical injection kubota's. Electronic (common rail)-different story, but those were generally water-related.
 
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Kaiten

New member

Equipment
G2160, G1800, ZD221, and L3800
Apr 15, 2021
28
0
1
Houston TX
Finally got the chance to do the compression test. All 3 cylinders read about 300 psi. Is it absolutely too low?
 

Dave_eng

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M7040, Nuffield 465
Oct 6, 2012
5,108
926
113
Williamstown Ontario Canada
270, 300, and 340
A well running engine has compression readings between412- 469 PSI with minimal variation between cylinders.

Rebuild engine when compression drops to 327 PSI

Further there should only be a 10% variation between cylinders and your is far more.

The two ends of the compression values you tested were 340 and 270.

340-270=70
10% of lowest would be 27 psi and you have variation of 70 psi.

In my opinion your engine is in trouble. It was in trouble when sold to you! The starting fluid did not help but with the work done previously it is an indication things were not well.

Lugbolts advice should be considered very valuable!

Dave
 
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lmichael

Active member

Equipment
Kubota G2160
Apr 23, 2021
520
205
43
Rockford IL area
Just another point of reference. SeaFoam is mostly alcohol and that is not a good thing to be putting through a diesel injection pump.
Sad about your machine though. I hope you can find a way to get it straightened out without going too much into "hock" for it.
 
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lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
4,807
1,575
113
Mid, South, USA
yup compression is low. Rebuild or replace is in order. But the question is, why is it low? Is it a product of shooting starting fluid to it, or was it low to begin with? Who knows? Might not ever know, but at this point its' too late to speculate as whatever damage, is already done, and you already know that the compression is low enough to warrant going deeper into the engine to find out why.
 

Kaiten

New member

Equipment
G2160, G1800, ZD221, and L3800
Apr 15, 2021
28
0
1
Houston TX
Thanks for all the advise. Did the compression test again this morning after I charged the battery. It comes out better. All 3 cylinders end around 360 to 370 psi. It took about 10 engine rev to reach the peak though. What should I do next?
 

Kaiten

New member

Equipment
G2160, G1800, ZD221, and L3800
Apr 15, 2021
28
0
1
Houston TX
Ok, I put the injectors back. Tried to bleed the line. Only injector 1 gets fuel. 2nd and 3rd are bone dry. That may be my problem!. I took the fuel pump inlet off and found there are a lot of pale white (almost translucent) flakes. It could be the Sea Foam flushed all the junks to here.

Tried to take the injection pump off. I took the four bolts off, but the pump is not coming out. something is holding it.

Help!