Anyone installed a stainless steel kitchen counter?

sheepfarmer

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I would like to replace my aging Formica counter top with a drop in sink with an all one piece stainless steel integrated sink, marine edges, L shaped one. They do this all the time in commercial kitchens. The advantage is no seams and corners to collect dirt and germs. They can be wiped down and water shoved into the sink easily. They typically have a 4 inch backsplash built into them.

I am having trouble finding a contractor who actually has done this before in a residence. Current one says he can, but young lady who is their point person on this knows even less than I do. And then there is also some difficulty finding a stainless steel custom work company nearby. I am verging on giving up.

The question I have is about the template. The companies that will do the welding want a template, it sounds like 5/8 plywood or so, and they build the counter around it. It should have the sink cutout in the right place and will take into account that walls are not really at right angle.

One person that I talked to, said you get the template and the top back when it is done, and then you screw the plywood to the base cabinets, and then place the top over it and maybe glue it to the ply wood?

Another said the template becomes an integral part of the counter top, if so having trouble visualizing how you would attach it to the base cabinets.

Anyone out there actually done this and can describe better?

Thanks!
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I have done stainless, copper and brass, they all look great when you first do them ( if done right), but honestly every single one has issues on the install and down the line, they also become dated and aged really quick, none of those options offer any return on investment as they don't sell well.

On a stainless top, they normally have tabs to attach them, as they are normally attached to stainless cabinets.
On are residential job, the best way to attach them is Polyurethane, LEXEL, or my last pick silicone.
The template can be as simple as a piece of cardboard, but if they want a base for the steel ( and they are doing a fill top wrap so no water gets on the base) then you would use MDF as it's ridged and smooth surfaced so the steel will lay flat.
Some will use the template just to make the top then use glue the template to the surface on install.

If you don't get a stainless sink of the same content and color it will stick out like a sore thumb (had this happen many a time) there is no way to fix it after the fact.

Also if there is any issues like cracks the repair can be quite brutal.
Thin stainless can split welds if not done perfectly, and I've only seen a few that didn't show the weld lines, takes some real art to do that.

Have you looked at solid surface countertops?
They can be much cheaper than I can do a Stainless or Copper counter top for.
They have all the advantages that you say you want.
 

sheepfarmer

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I have done stainless, copper and brass, they all look great when you first do them ( if done right), but honestly every single one has issues on the install and down the line, they also become dated and aged really quick, none of those options offer any return on investment as they don't sell well.

On a stainless top, they normally have tabs to attach them, as they are normally attached to stainless cabinets.
On are residential job, the best way to attach them is Polyurethane, LEXEL, or my last pick silicone.
The template can be as simple as a piece of cardboard, but if they want a base for the steel ( and they are doing a fill top wrap so no water gets on the base) then you would use MDF as it's ridged and smooth surfaced so the steel will lay flat.
Some will use the template just to make the top then use glue the template to the surface on install.

If you don't get a stainless sink of the same content and color it will stick out like a sore thumb (had this happen many a time) there is no way to fix it after the fact.

Also if there is any issues like cracks the repair can be quite brutal.
Thin stainless can split welds if not done perfectly, and I've only seen a few that didn't show the weld lines, takes some real art to do that.

Have you looked at solid surface countertops?
They can be much cheaper than I can do a Stainless or Copper counter top for.
They have all the advantages that you say you want.
What do you mean by solid surface? Corian?
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Yes that is one brand name of solid surface countertops.
 

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Have you called any of the 'restaurant supply houses' ? or even scrap yards ?? The first sell them for a living, while might not have exactly your size/shape may know of one locally. often scrapyards will get them ( restaurants close....get gutted...) again you might get one.
A lot depends on how big a reno you're doing. Odds are good the wooden countertop frame has rotted to maybe best going back to the studs.
 

sheepfarmer

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Yes that is one brand name of solid surface countertops.
Thank you. I saw one with a stainless sink sort of braised in that was seamless . I have seen ones at home shows with merged corian sinks, but they are supposed to stain.

Corian or something similar might be better given the lack of local expertise with ss. I had my heart set on it after many lab and darkroom sinks and counters that were dandy, but I'd hate to go to all that expense and have it come out ugly.
 

sheepfarmer

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Have you called any of the 'restaurant supply houses' ? or even scrap yards ?? The first sell them for a living, while might not have exactly your size/shape may know of one locally. often scrapyards will get them ( restaurants close....get gutted...) again you might get one.
A lot depends on how big a reno you're doing. Odds are good the wooden countertop frame has rotted to maybe best going back to the studs.
Yes a big reno by my standards. Replacing the flooring and the cupboards. Tiny kitchen so every inch counts. Shape is triangular. The other countertop is a nightmare too. Want flushmount induction cooktop, and originally thought to put it in some 1.5 inch walnut planks to match floor, wood off my farm, but decided it might warp and then top wouldn't be level. That counter is all different angles and pieces it goes around brick chimneys.
 

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We just redid our kitchen cabinets and used the manmade " quartz " for counters.. more expensive than granite but is not porous.
I've installed a lot of stainless kitchen hoods in restaurants but no counter experience. I honestly don't think that you'll be happy with stainless in the long haul. I also think if you needed to sale would be a big turnoff for most buyers.
 
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skeets

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I dont know about the counter tops but my wife have all the appliances in stainless before she passed,, and they are a BYTCH to keep looking half way nice
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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My kitchen island with sink (11ft x 5ft) will be butcher block hickory with Walnut of Purple heart inserts.
We have all the wood already here, and should be cutting and setting it in another couple months.
As long as the wood is cured correctly and then sealed properly (2K sealers) then it would be fine.
 
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sheepfarmer

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My kitchen island with sink (11ft x 5ft) will be butcher block hickory with Walnut of Purple heart inserts.
We have all the wood already here, and should be cutting and setting it in another couple months.
As long as the wood is cured correctly and then sealed properly (2K sealers) then it would be fine.
On the counter holding up the cook top I need to put hot things down sometimes. How do you think those sealers would work out?
A friend made me a table out of some of these planks. They are glued together along the long edges. It is beautiful. Do you think the same construction would be stable enough to have the hole cut out in the middle for a 24 by 30" cooktop? It needs a little ledge to sit on so it comes out flush. I thought it could be reinforced from below by screwing some sort of flat metal (not iron!) straps underneath. The cooktop weighs 42 lbs, but then there are big pots on top. Some of the oil finishes can be renewed if scratched or scorched.

My other idea is use soapstone under oven and around cooktop and wood elsewhere. Everyone keeps saying why don't you just do it all in granite? But I don't like granite. It is not a granite sort of house.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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On the counter holding up the cook top I need to put hot things down sometimes. How do you think those sealers would work out?
A friend made me a table out of some of these planks. They are glued together along the long edges. It is beautiful. Do you think the same construction would be stable enough to have the hole cut out in the middle for a 24 by 30" cooktop? It needs a little ledge to sit on so it comes out flush. I thought it could be reinforced from below by screwing some sort of flat metal (not iron!) straps underneath. The cooktop weighs 42 lbs, but then there are big pots on top. Some of the oil finishes can be renewed if scratched or scorched.

My other idea is use soapstone under oven and around cooktop and wood elsewhere. Everyone keeps saying why don't you just do it all in granite? But I don't like granite. It is not a granite sort of house.
I just did a entire kitchen in soapstone, nice but not my taste either.
The poly I use for countertops is rated for 300F.
You can actually discolor the wood easier that hurt the poly, so it's best to avoid direct contact with things that are too hot, either a trivet, Silicone mat (my favorite) or a tempered glass sheet are all great options to keep the countertop safe.
Use an underlayment core (MDF or PLY) under the planks to add strength, if the planks were tongue and grooved or finger jointed then they would be strong enough on there own.
The plank board top with an underlayment should be plenty strong enough to hold the cook top with even with heavy pots on it.
 

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We have those commercial SS counters with integrated sinks and backsplash in a number of our stations. They are made up of discrete sections, welded together, then the joints are all ground flush and the whole thing burnished so it looks like it was stamped out of a single sheet of metal. Even the sinks.

I will say they are durable. They have to be to stand up to the abuse they get. And they are heat-resistant, no worries about putting the hot pot directly on the counter. But the finish is soon marred with fine scratches and very difficult to get clean. For some reason, spills tend to smear rather than wipe off. Similarly, the sinks have square inside corners that make cleaning a challenge. I imagine one can specify the depth of sink, but the ones we have are very deep. Nice for the large pots favoured by firefighters, but quite a reach for ordinary cups and cutlery!

Overall, while they are OK for a commercial installation, I wouldn't want one in my home. But that's just my 2¢.
 

sheepfarmer

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I just did a entire kitchen in soapstone, nice but not my taste either.
The poly I use for countertops is rated for 300F.
You can actually discolor the wood easier that hurt the poly, so it's best to avoid direct contact with things that are too hot, either a trivet, Silicone mat (my favorite) or a tempered glass sheet are all great options to keep the countertop safe.
Use an underlayment core (MDF or PLY) under the planks to add strength, if the planks were tongue and grooved or finger jointed then they would be strong enough on there own.
The plank board top with an underlayment should be plenty strong enough to hold the cook top with even with heavy pots on it.
My 1.5 inch more or less walnut planks were kiln dried twice and have been sitting stickered in a climate controlled building at the local flooring sawmill, along with my 3/4 inch flooring, which is already tongue and grooved. It would be easy for them to plane my big planks and groove them. Or for a good woodworker to do it. Finding a good woodworker is another problem. I think I would like that around my cooktop better than either all soapstone or part wood part soapstone. That side of the kitchen doesn't get wet unless I boil a pot over. That might be a hazard with wood, if water gets between the edge of the cooktop and the plank support something might warp.

What I have now, and has been in place for 50 years, no discoloration or scratches, and only one small chip, is some kind of mystery substance, black, cold like stone but may have been manufactured, looks a bit like what they used to use for lab counters, but not as rough as slate. 4 small pieces support old style cooktop. If it were thicker I would try to re use it.
 

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I would lean heavily toward Granite. If you are interested I could post pictures of my change out from Formica to Granite which also includes the "backsplash". ??
 

sheepfarmer

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I would lean heavily toward Granite. If you are interested I could post pictures of my change out from Formica to Granite which also includes the "backsplash". ??
That would be great. The down side to stone is the junction with the wall. I would be interested to see how you solved the problem.
 

Magicman

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OK, I don't know what the photo limitations are per reply so I will try to do 5 at the time.
DSCN0990_28Small29.JPG

There was tile behind the Formica kitchen countertops which had to go.
DSCN0992_28Small29.JPG

Gone from the first wall.
DSCN0993_28Small29.JPG

So now on the the wall behind the sink.
DSCN1002_28Small29.JPG

It is now gone along with the sink and Formica.
DSCN1006_28Small29.JPG

The Formica is gone from the other countertop.
 

Magicman

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DSCN1007_28Small29.JPG

The first piece of Granite is in place.
DSCN1008_28Small29.JPG

And now the second piece. The cooktop cutout will be made in this piece.
DSCN1011_28Small29.JPG

The third and largest piece of Granite is in place. The glue that is used between the Granite pieces is colored and the seams are very difficult to find.
DSCN1013_28Small29.JPG

The sink countertop is in place and the SS sink is inserted from underneath and secured.
DSCN1016_28Small29.JPG

So now I begin the tile work on the walls behind the Granite.
 

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DSCN1019_28Small29.JPG

The Granite and tile work is complete on this counter.
DSCN1022_28Small29.JPG

I am now working on the tile behind the sink.
DSCN1032_28Small29.JPG

Tile hung and waiting for the grout.
DSCN1033_28Small29.JPG

Grouting the tile.
DSCN1040_28Small29.JPG

Grouting complete and sponging it off.
 

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DSCN1045_28Small29.JPG

Completed countertop and wall.
DSCN1049_28Small29.JPG

Completed countertop and wall.
DSCN1054_28Small29.JPG

Another view.
DSCN1066_28Small29.JPG

Let me explain this one. Since there is a cooktop in this countertop and a living area next to it, there is a piece of plate glass attached on top of the countertop directly behind the cooktop. It extends up to and attaches to the vent hood. (You can see a reflection in it.) This is a divider to prevent any accidental whatever from happening and making a mess or injuring/burning anyone in the living area.