Backblade Bucket Hydraulic Failure bx25d

Drlguy · Oct 3, 2017

Hydraulic Failure bx25d

New to the forum. I hear great things about the community here. Today I was applying a load on the fel bucket and backing up and there was a loud bang and the bucket broke free and limp. After that happen I curled the bucket back up to the scooop position and it does not stay curled up. It seeps right back down to dump position.

Any ideas what I broke? Cylinder seal?

Video:
https://youtu.be/ioG3oIEujXg
https://youtu.be/TFL1G4dYJ5k

I tried circulating this all the way to max limit both directions to get the fluid to recirculate but it still does it. Also noticed cylinder is catching when I curl it all the way up.

bxray · Oct 3, 2017

Looks like the cylinder is bad.
To test, try propping up or strapping the bucket and disconnect the hoses.
To dissconnect them turn off the tractor and relieve the pressure.
Pull out the prop or strap and if it drops it is in the cylinder.
If not it is in the valve.

Another test is to swap out the hoses and see of it moves or stays in the bucket.

Ray

Lil Foot · Oct 3, 2017

backing up and there was a loud bang

This sounds like somewhat common problem I have both seen & heard of-
When back dragging under load, you can catch the bucket on a rock or root, breaking the threaded end of the ram off inside the cylinder. (see generic pic below)
This series is slightly more susceptible to this because of the single ram, where most others have two to spread the shock load. A teardown is called for, but I'll bet that's your problem.

Drlguy · Oct 3, 2017

Thanks Bxray and Lil foot. I just disconnected the lines and sure enough the bucket curl doesn't stay so the cylinder is seeping quickly. I pulled the cylinder off the machine and I can hear something rattling around in there after emptied the fluid out. Guess that is the issue.

Thanks for helping troubleshoot it.

Guess I should find a new one or look into rebuilding the cylinder if it didn't break.

Is there anything I should be worried about with the hydraulic fluid or filter now that something came loose?

bxray · Oct 3, 2017

Would have to open up the cylder and see if there is small broken parts or just pulled out the tread.

At least need a filter change.

Lil Foot · Oct 3, 2017

I have seen (or heard about) 2 that broke the shaft cleanly, (ram broken into 2 pieces) and one ripped the threads off the ram. (lots of smaller pieces)
The 2 or 3 others, I don't know the exact failure mode.
But you're probably going to have to replace or rebuild the cylinder, so, if you don't find small debris, a filter change might be all that's called for.

Lil Foot · Oct 3, 2017

I was "volunteered" to turn down & re-thread the stripped-thread ram by a well meaning acquaintance, to save the owner the cost of a new ram.
I declined.
If the original thread was not strong enough under those conditions, how long would a smaller thread last?

Drlguy · Oct 4, 2017

Lil Foot said:
I have seen (or heard about) 2 that broke the shaft cleanly, (ram broken into 2 pieces) and one ripped the threads off the ram. (lots of smaller pieces)
The 2 or 3 others, I don't know the exact failure mode.
But you're probably going to have to replace or rebuild the cylinder, so, if you don't find small debris, a filter change might be all that's called for.

This is exactly what I need to do. A rebuild. Do you know where I can get the cylinder wrench to take it apart, online?Any suggested sources. Seems pretty straight forward repair. Also any place recommended for rebuild parts online?

Lil Foot · Oct 4, 2017

Don't know, there must be dozens of different end cap setups; snap ring, wrench,
pin spanner, wire key, etc.. I made the pin wrench for my B670 cylinders. Hopefully, someone familiar with your model will step up with some helpful info.
I've had the best luck with Coleman Equipment.

D2Cat · Oct 4, 2017

A few tips when using the loader.

When back dragging/backblading, position the bucket at an angel of less then 45 deg. and backup slowly.

Backgrading with the bucket tilted too far may result in damage to the tllt cylinders.

Don't use the bucket in the dumped position for bulldozing. This method will impose severe shock loadings on the dump linkage, the tilt cylinder, and the tractor.

Oh, and when backfilling a ditch/hole, leave dirt in the bucket because dumping on each pass waste time.

This is right out of the Woods loader operator's manual. They also say it (the above) will void warranty.

How many do you know put the cutting edge down perpendicular to the earth and start backwards? Or, even have the cutting edge back even closer to the tires and do the same?

Drlguy · Oct 4, 2017

Lil Foot said:
Don't know, there must be dozens of different end cap setups; snap ring, wrench,
pin spanner, wire key, etc.. I made the pin wrench for my B670 cylinders. Hopefully, someone familiar with your model will step up with some helpful info.
I've had the best luck with Coleman Equipment.[/QUOTE

I got my hands on a adjustable spanner wrench. I will try to pull it apart tonight and see what I find inside.

Anyone that knows the BX tractor, is there a aftermarket cylinder for this part replacement? I did a search and didn't come up with anything.

Drlguy · Oct 4, 2017

Pulled the cylinder apart and sure enough the piston was split in half.

100 td · Oct 4, 2017

Got a feeling there was another like this here just recently?

Lil Foot · Oct 4, 2017

Drlguy said:
Pulled the cylinder apart and sure enough the piston was split in half.

Wow, that's a new failure mode to me. Maybe better; I'll bet that piston is way cheaper than the ram.

maclean · Oct 7, 2017

Re: Hydraulic Failure bx25d

I've done the exact thing three times now on my BX25D...1120 hrs...once at 400, 800 and 20 hrs ago. Lucky I have a hydraulic shop in town...they rebuilt the cylinder and seals for $150. I also, on their suggestion...welded three tacks on the bump stops on the FEL which decreased the cylinder throw about 1/8" and should mean I'm ending on the stops and not the piston head.
Another tip...blow out the hydraulic lines...seal and piston shrapnel get jammed in the loader quick disconnects...I took off the qds and blew out both lines with an air compressor and spent 25 minutes picking junk out of the disconnect with tiny pliers and a dental pick.
Oh...and since you have it apart...check the pins on the front pivot...I keep a couple in stock...broke one once...one of mine was slightly bent...classic FEL out of square issue. This is a great time to pull all those apart and clean up the grease mess.

lugbolt · Oct 8, 2017

Classic case of using the BX for a bull dozer, IMO.

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Backblade Bucket Hydraulic Failure bx25d

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