Lost 'Float' Function on a LA481 Loader

L3010HST · Nov 18, 2015

Exactly what the title says. It was starting to get stiff in pushing control level into that mode. Finally, won't click into that function mode anymore even with moderate force. Boom up/down operation is fine and smooth. Roll operation is a-okay as well.

I obtained the WSM on that Loader. Basically useless WSM and mentions nothing if/when/why you're having trouble with the float function in the troubleshooting section.

Had a service parts guy at my Dealer say something about there could be water/moisture/rust inside control valve. My logic says that can't be, being inside there's hydraulic fluid. Plus my Kubota is not stored directly out in the elements. Stored outside, but under cover out of direct rain or snow contact.

Before I start digging into the control valve blindly, any insight in what to expect and what to be careful about and/or what's the cause of losing only the bucket float function?

Thanks in advance

hodge · Nov 18, 2015

It is possible for moisture to mix with oil, and produce rust. I had a snow plow lift that was full of hydraulic oil, got water in through the top seal, and rusted enough to ruin the pump. It can happen.
Your control probably has a ball and spring that are stuck, or have come out, and is keeping the valve from going all the way forward to the float position. Either way, it needs to be pulled apart to see what's going on.
A similar condition happened to the loader control on a NH tractor that my dad owned, and the simplest solution was to remove the spring and ball. You didn't feel the detent when you would reach the float function, but you knew when it was dropping under power, or when you had gone past and were in the float zone. It still worked, you just didn't have that detent to know when you are entering the float mode.

Billdog350 · Nov 18, 2015

Hodge is spot on. Those loader valves have caps that you unscrew from the bottom of the valve (opposite your spools from the top) that contain the springs and balls for detent and such. I have seen moisture collect in those caps and cause freezing in the winter, rusting and failure of the detent and other related issues. We used to drill out the caps to allow moisture to drip out since the sealed design doesn't work well.

L3010HST · Nov 18, 2015

Moderator: Thanks for moving to correct section. My bad.

@hodge and Billdog...thanks for the insight and replies.

Looks like I'm tearing into it.

Guess Dealer was correct what they told me. Especially with hodge's reply on moisture collecting inside cap, drilling hole for drainage. This tells me that detent section is 'not' in contact with hydraulic fluid like the spool is. Now I have a better idea what to expect.

Thanks again

Tooljunkie · Nov 18, 2015

I should have taken pictures.
If its anything like the L4610 hst. I did it right on tractor. (Indoors on a clean floor to find dropped bits)
Pulled cap off the end,cleaned it up, threw out the rusted down ball and cleaned /greased the moving pieces.

Lowest ball rusted til it fell out if its resting place, jamming mechanism preventing float. so instead of 3 it has 2. Never noticed and difference after-other than the fact it worked as expected.

D2Cat · Nov 18, 2015

Here's a picture of a valve off of a different tractor, but the valves are similar in function.

The third picture shows the valve. I had it removed from the stand and rolled over upside down on the hood of the tractor, laying on a piece of carpet.

Picture #2 shows the end where the detent balls are. On this valve the four cap screws are removed and there are 4 steel balls and a spring and a retainer piece holding the spring in the correct position.

Hydraulic fluid does not get to this area. The valve cartridge (or spool) extends past a seal to activate the balls being pushed into cavities and held by the spring to put valve into float.

Caution is to remove the screws slowly and evenly, knowing a spring is inside. As mentioned it's safer to be in a clean area to find your mistakes!! (If you happen to drop one of the balls just have a good magnet to help capture it.)

You may very well find moisture, dirt and a rust combination under this cap. Might be able to clean, apply some lithium grease and reassemble.

L3010HST · Nov 19, 2015

Thanks for the additional tips and pictures. Very helpful.

Spent a good part of yesterday cleaning what I found inside. All dry but lots of rust

I don't think that detent had ever been inspected/drained since it were new. I bought this L3010HST used with the LA481 and have only owned for three years. Now I know another preventative maintenance I'll be adding to my annual list.

I cleaned everything up best I could with some PB Blaster and small wire brush. The sleeve is pitted pretty bad but reassembled unit anyway. I too used some grease before I read the previous posts. It was the only way to hold those 4 small ball bearings in place to slide the sleeve over, then grease to hold the spring and larger ball bearing (defying gravity), then cap, then bolts with some anti-seize.

Float engages much smoother now with very slight hesitation/click, but doesn't stay in float on it's own like it did before. Now must hold lever in float to stay in float. Is that normal? First tractor so I only know what it was like when I first bought it.

I'll be checking the roll valve side today, being no doubt that has lots of rust inside as well.

If my float detent acts up again, I'll be pulling the trigger on a rebuild kit. Best I could find is for ~$136-37 +ship.

Thanks for everyone's help

Pictures:

D2Cat · Nov 19, 2015

L3010HST, looks like that valve has been in the South China Sea for a while!

If it won't hold the detent position, maybe the spring is too weak. Maybe you lower the resistance level with too much grease!!!!

I had mine apart so many times I can't remember all the ailments, but I had one spring rusted in two pieces. I went to the hardware store, got one from stock and adapted by cutting off to get the correct length and pressure.

Have fun with the second one.

Lil Foot · Nov 19, 2015

You're lucky, both detent balls & the spring in mine were gone completely.(rust) One of these days I'm going to find time to repair it- good thing I almost never need float.

L3010HST · Nov 24, 2015

D2Cat said:
L3010HST, looks like that valve has been in the South China Sea for a while!

If it won't hold the detent position, maybe the spring is too weak. Maybe you lower the resistance level with too much grease!!!!

I had mine apart so many times I can't remember all the ailments, but I had one spring rusted in two pieces. I went to the hardware store, got one from stock and adapted by cutting off to get the correct length and pressure.

Have fun with the second one.

I did butter it up pretty good with grease, so I think you're right on too much grease and why detent won't stay now. That collar is probably way out of spec in clearance to those ball bearings after cleaning all that rust off too.

Second one was not bad at all and didn't have the same guts, being mine came as a standard type valve and not the remote type.

Thanks for letting me know that the detent should stay on its own and probable causes why it doesn't. Come Spring, I'll dig into it again. It'll get me through Winter as it is now.

Kingcreek · Nov 24, 2015

Hmm, I've never been into mine. Maybe I should check it in the spring between snow pushing and weed mowing seasons. 1999 with 1250 hours on it, same LA481 FEL. Mine has always been stored inside but for a few times in the rain. Haven't had a problem.
yet.

L3010HST · Nov 27, 2015

Kingcreek said:
Hmm, I've never been into mine. Maybe I should check it in the spring between snow pushing and weed mowing seasons. 1999 with 1250 hours on it, same LA481 FEL. Mine has always been stored inside but for a few times in the rain. Haven't had a problem.
yet.

My detent was somewhat hard to engage when I first bought it (hint one to me). Over next three years, it got worse to the point of having to 'hit' lever moderately hard to engage (hint two). Then, finally wouldn't engage at all (three strikes your out lol).

Wouldn't hurt to check when weather is better. Like I mentioned earlier, it's on my annual check list with other maintenance items now.

I noticed on mine, the cap and spacer assembly doesn't have gaskets to help keep out moisture. Parts and WSM diagram doesn't show gaskets either nor spec 'any' lubrication. That's kinda a fail in my book by Kubota -_-

Kingcreek · Dec 2, 2015

Mine has always functioned perfectly but maybe I should dob a finger full of grease around it just as preventative?

L3010HST · Dec 5, 2015

Kingcreek said:
Mine has always functioned perfectly but maybe I should dob a finger full of grease around it just as preventative?

That's your call, being you have no noticeable issues.

I'll say though it couldn't hurt to inspect to make sure you're not accumulating rust and/or moisture in there. And if you do crack it open, be aware of those ball bearings and spring as you take the cap off, like already mentioned in this thread. And the only way I got mine back together without removing and/or turning the detent valve end right side up was to grease the ball bearings and spring to defy gravity to reassemble.

Butch · Dec 12, 2017

I had a similar problem a few years back on my B2410.... did an extensive write upon uncapping and getting those 4 ball bearings back in place for the detent... Look under HUSCO Valve posts and maybe Vic can point you to the thread... good luck

mikester · Dec 13, 2017

I had a similar problem with the joystick control on an old tractor. Under the control stick boot the nuts joining the joystick to the mechanical valves came loose and I couldn't get complete motion on the valves.

The manufacturer used double nuts to lock them in place. After fixing the problem twice I replaced them with nylon lock nuts and never had the problem come back.

Hodgy · Nov 21, 2020

L3010HST said:
Thanks for the additional tips and pictures. Very helpful.

Spent a good part of yesterday cleaning what I found inside. All dry but lots of rust I don't think that detent had ever been inspected/drained since it were new. I bought this L3010HST used with the LA481 and have only owned for three years. Now I know another preventative maintenance I'll be adding to my annual list.

I cleaned everything up best I could with some PB Blaster and small wire brush. The sleeve is pitted pretty bad but reassembled unit anyway. I too used some grease before I read the previous posts. It was the only way to hold those 4 small ball bearings in place to slide the sleeve over, then grease to hold the spring and larger ball bearing (defying gravity), then cap, then bolts with some anti-seize.

Float engages much smoother now with very slight hesitation/click, but doesn't stay in float on it's own like it did before. Now must hold lever in float to stay in float. Is that normal? First tractor so I only know what it was like when I first bought it.

I'll be checking the roll valve side today, being no doubt that has lots of rust inside as well.

If my float detent acts up again, I'll be pulling the trigger on a rebuild kit. Best I could find is for ~$136-37 +ship.

Thanks for everyone's help

Pictures:
View attachment 16830

View attachment 16831

View attachment 16832

View attachment 16833

Hodgy · Nov 21, 2020

I have a B7800 that rusted and am now installing the kit. I am trying to figure out if the b9g ball bearing goes above the 4 small ones, ie closer to the spool valve. What did you do ?

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Lost 'Float' Function on a LA481 Loader

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