L3350 buy advice

Alaska, it might be hard to tell if reasonable price because I am guessing everything up your way is more expensive. Questions: how much do you need a backhoe? How close is a source of parts? Can you do most of the mechanical work on it yorself? A working heater might be pretty important. The older tractors if looked after keep going and going.

Greg,

I'd jump on it. Start out a couple grand under his asking and either meet him in the middle or get him to throw more into the deal.

Go over the BH cylinders with a fine toothed comb. Any pitting or scratches are potential leak points. Ultimately, if you have a few seepage areas, and the machine is otherwise reliable, you can live with those and swap 'em out as time goes on. Same with the loader cylinders. I believe you can get a quick attach for those backhoes but you may have to have it installed at a machine shop. Not very experienced with backhoes myself either.

1000 hours is barely broken in. The only problem I see is the weather issues and you can hammer him for new hoses and a seat. All that stuff is easy to get and replace. The paint is not cheap but if you buy it by the quart from Kubota (and I recommend you do), it'll run you $50 a quart. That machine is the old Kubota Orange I color but, if you want to modernize it and are painting it all, the new Orange II would look nice. Two quarts will about do that machine. Three would give you a little for touch up later.

Pull any dip sticks you can to check for moisture penetration into the innards. Water "bubbles" on the dipstick are a sign of water penetration. If the pins are tight on the backhoe you are probably pretty certain its one that came with the machine. Plan on doing a complete fluid and filter service on it. The synthetic hydraulic fluid SUDT is about $70 a jug down here (3.5 gal) and you'll need two jugs. If the seller hasn't done fluids, you can use that as leverage. Filters are about $14 for oil and about $30 for hydraulic. I'd stick with stock the first time around to make sure your machine is running as it should. One thing about sellers: They are not always truthful. Even if they say they did service, its best to do it yourself and start at zero time both for the machine and for your piece of mind. The front axle fill cap is hopefully not on top and hasn't leaked in rain. Water penetration into the differential is SUPER costly to repair. If you get it, zirk the heck out of the loader joints to force out and moisture and get them lubed up. Same with any underneath zirk fittings on drivetrain and pedal hinges.

Hopefully, you'll have some kind of shed or barn to get this beauty out of the weather.

BIG CONCERN: Check tire sidewalls. Its probably on 25 year old tires and the rears run $1000 installed and weighted apiece down here! Fronts are about $80 apiece. Any checking will mean you are probably looking at tires and that is not something you can do yourself. It will require a visit to a dealer/tire service center. Another bargaining chip.

Jump on it! After looking at the pictures, I think a little TLC might get this thing back to new condition. I think you might find you never need to upgrade. This is a very capable machine for around the ranch!

Let us know how it goes....

Ray

Hydrostatics note: Kubota makes bullet-proof HSTs. I watched guys in the late 80's at my airline try to destroy Kubota HSTs spinning tires pulling baggage trains on the ramp. Never heard of a failure. I have a HST L3800 and love it.

OUCH!

If you knew the water got in this Spring and that was it, that would make it an easier decision. I am thinking the front axle is filled with 80-90. It sounds like that fluid may be original or at least a decade old and the moisture inside has been stirred and stirred and stirred. Oil protects metal from corrosion but oil tends to break down when "hydrogenated." My guess is that front end is gonna need some serious work. I could be wrong. It might only be a layer of corrosion floating on top of the lube. But, oil floats on water, so for years, all the water that gets in has worked its way to the bottom of the case... Differential cases don't get much combustion heat like motors do so they don't get the chance to burn off moisture. It stays and does damage.

Here's an idea: Compared to a differential overhaul, 80-90 is cheap. Get a gallon and a half of it and ask if you can drain the front end and examine what comes out. If you get clean fluid with a tiny bit of moisture, then you have more confidence on what is going on inside. If you get a brown foamy-chunky mass tinged with rusty spots and brown rust grit, re-fill it and walk away. That differential is about to detonate and the bearings are hours away from seizing. If you have access to a borescope video probe, this is the perfect time to use one.

You could end up dropping $1500-2000 in parts alone on that front end -plus labor. That doesn't fit in with your "using it rather than working on it" plan. Or, hammer the price down $3000 and take it into the dealer for their assessment. You show the owner a drain pan full of rusty crap and they are going to realize that there are absolute costs associated with leaving a piece of machinery out in the weather 24/7.

My L3800 lists either UDT or 80-90 for the front end. I bet that older machine has 80-90. My owners manual lists 4.8qts so that one might be larger. Take a gallon and a half with you to be sure.

The Hobbs meter should tick over in as little as 6 minutes. If you drive it before draining the front end, drive it around for 6 minutes and see if it ticks over a tenth. If not, be very wary of the advertised 1000 hours. For a machine like that, even if used very lightly on a "gentleman's farm," it should have closer to 3-4000 hours on it over 25 years. Overall condition is what matters but I bet it has more than 1000 hours on it. If the meter is toast, you know it does too. More bargaining for your price.

Wish I could offer better assistance sir!

Let us know how it works out...

Ray

Greg,

Since I slept on it, there are two alternatives to checking the front end fluids...

Don't move it. Drain it as is. This would show you how much water was in the case because more of it would be separated from the oil. But, the next question wold be, "OK. How much damage did it do?" Which brings us to alternative number two...

Put it in 4WD and run it for at least 6-10 minutes. This would check the Hobbs meter! And, if you could get it up to a high rate of speed, it would froth up the fluid in the front end so that when you drained it, you would see more of the "nasty bits" floating around in that case. If the fluid you drain comes out like brown or rust-colored froth (like ancient radiator fluid), you can pretty much write off that front end. Or at least the bearings (5 total? Plus spider gears -if there are any? On a 4WD there may not be any spiders.)

On the other hand, if it comes out essentially clean with some froth at the end and a few rusty shavings, you might not be in as bad a shape. In either case, you can show the owners what your concern is. The mere possibility of a front end problem puts their pricing on ice.

Most 4WD front differentials are pretty simple. You have the input shaft, supported by bearings, some spider gears (usually on bushing bearings) and then the output shafts and associated gears and bearings. The U-joints and steering bits are outside of the front end so they shouldn't be affected. I can't image the parts running more that $15-1800 unless the half-shafts gear faces are so pitted and shot that they need to be replaced. Getting those for a 25 year-old machine might be a challenge. Current manufacture non-OEM bearings might be an easy swap -and much cheaper. Might do some pre-emptive checking at Messicks parts web site. Or call your nearest Kubota dealer or equipment service center. You can get a wag on labor and total cost as well.

Just a thought.

One other thing: Do you have a 8,000lb capacity trailer and a tow vehicle to pull it? I bet this old puppy weighs in with that BH at close to 6000 lbs. If you buy it and either take it home or directly to a service center, be ready for this thing. Its gonna be a Heavy Jose. Remember that the weight of the trailer is included in the GW rating of the trailer. And, with the BH, its going to be more top heavy than just the tractor alone.

Ray

(HEY D2, Sean, or anyone else with heavy repair experience... any ideas or thoughts??? Anything else Greg should look out for????)

BackHoe Question:

I am not sure that back hoe would fit most new machines. The pictures show a separate seat out back for it which means the whole mount and frame for it are way longer (deeper) than most of the more modern and lighter BH's that are made to disconnect fairly easily. I am thinking this one stays on. The newer models swivel the driver seat for operation from the cab -I believe.

Some of our guys have backhoes and should be able to answer that. All the leaky valve bits should be easy DIY stuff. Even hose replacements can be made custom at hose shops that deal in just making up custom hoses for 1/2 the price of OEM.

More worthless advice from a guy on the "Intranet" who you ave never met!!!



Ray

Thanks Sean!!!!

Yeah, if you can get it for YOUR price, using the iccky fluid as a motivator, I think you might just get a heck of a deal.

Keep us tuned.

Ray

A bit thin on advice pertaining to the machine itself, but perhaps a comment or two pertaining to backhoes may assist:

1. Get a frame-mount backhoe that can be set off the tractor under its own power, unless you want a dedicated hoe.

2. 3-point lift backhoes can be useful but usually are slightly underpowered not in the horsepower sense but rather they are supported on the 3-point lift assembly and are therefore somewhat hanging off in space. Easy to bend things if not careful.

3. No experience about the bucket being converted to quick-attach but if you can turn up the dipper-stick mating piece or can fabricate something that matches the bucket (you need a good welder) something can probably be produced. NOTE welding on the machine will reduce resale value, which you mention in your post.

4. A backhoe is a collection of leaks waiting to appear, usually at the least possible opportune moment.

5. Replace all hoses immediately after purchase if you want to work the machine without interruption. Especially if older OEM hoses are present. Use hoses fabricated by commercial big-city hydraulic shop, not a corner automotive parts house. Use premium hoses only. Blow and wash hose internals completely clean before installation to save hydraulic pump and valve problems.

6. If you do the hose work yourself, you need a set of high-quality 'service' or 'hydraulic' open-end wrenches (expensive, but a one-time lifetime buy) AND a set of 'crow-foot flare-nut' ratchet-drive wrenches (Sears is best value)---in addition to other basic handtools. A crescent and pipe wrench will only cause you problems and should not be used on hose connections.

7. Do not use field-installable hose-end connections other than in emergency and then cut them off and use "real" connections sooner rather than later. Field-installable hydraulic hose-end connections will not stand the pressure and pulsations present in your system.

8. After changing hoses, change hydrauic fluid and filters within couple hours run time, ideally spent working every hydraulic circuit repeatedly. Even if you did clean hoses internally.

9. Stripped filler cap is mentioned. Replace cap. If cap has vent pointing 'up', use rubber fuel line to bend opening 'down' and restrain in that position (it only needs a small hole, matchstick size). Stripped cap is letting in soil and moisture. New cap, change hoses, run machine, replace fluid and filters.

Please post back your continuing experiences so we may all learn.

I fear Greg may have missed the tractor -or the seller is sticking to his price despite the possible damage. Bummer.