Kubota L3800 Turns Over But Will Not Start

chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
Good morning Kubota fans :).
My name is Brett and I'm just east of Grand Rapids Mi(first post figured and intro would be nice).
Now to the heart of the post.
I have a 2012 Kubota with around 400hrs with a no start issue although it will turn over quite quickly once it stopped having any fuel in the engine. It's been a great tractor for me for the last 4 years with no real problems, I really enjoy having it around and look forward to getting it up and running soon as fall is a busy time here.
I'm quite active on a few other forums and did a lot of searching before posting, most every post I read in regards to fuel it was the lift pump or folks just said bleed it and there was no reply as to what the problem was so I assume they just needed to bleed it. This one seemed very promising, but I checked "all" the fuses as well as the wiring where it goes through the point he had an issue and it wasn't that, but this may help someone with a crank but no start problem.
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20970&page=2
I will report back whatever the fix is once it's found as I hate reading 3 or more pages to find that the OP never responded with the fix, how frustrating :(.
I was pressure washing the house yesterday(tractor wasn't getting wet) and my son was running the tractor while I was in the bucket(not suggested without proper safety equipment ;) and it felt as though he shut it off, I asked him to raise it up a bit and he fired it up and raised me up, then it shut off again, when I was done with that section he let me down with the engine off(he didn't shut it off it had stalled both times). Then I was going to move the tractor to the next area and he said it was out of gas, it was low, but I didn't think it was that low. I grabbed a can and put 5 gallons in it and it was registering at just over half so I thought maybe it did run out :eek:. But when I looked at the fuel filter it was totally full. It was acting as though it needed fuel so I opened the bleed valve by the lift pump and turned the tractor over a good bit and then closed it, no start so I repeated this a few times with no change. I then cracked the lines open at the injectors and turned it over, it appeared as though I got some fuel from the back and front lines but not the middle so I tightened them up and tried to start it again, nothing. Repeated loosening the lines a couple more times and turning it over and then tried just one line to see if that would help, but nothing.(I've never had to loosen the lines before while changing filters or when it was run out of fuel, but I usually shut equipment right down if it surges while running, I could not hear it surge as I was running the pressure washer, but I also did not feel it surge and I think I would have although it was only idling).
I then pulled the inlet hose at the lift pump and there is plenty of fuel there and pressure from gravity and I pulled the hose on the outlet and there was fuel there also.
One important thing is that the fuel gauge now shows that the tank is empty so I'm thinking there is an electrical problem at least with the gauge, but possibly they are not two separate issues since the gauge problem just started? I can hear the fuel shut off solenoid clicking when I turn the ignition key forward so I didn't think it was the shut off solenoid. I checked all the fuses and they look good.
Any thoughts or advice appreciated.
Thanks guys,
Brett
Just to save you guys having a similar problem the time of reading the whole 3 pages I'll let you know I got it fixed(I'd change the title and add "fixed" but don't know how. Moderators could you, or let me know how and I will..
It must have been an air bubble in the hose just after the lift pump(upstream). I pulled the hose off after the lift pump and let it drain about a half quart of fuel, then tried it with the bleed valve open and got nothing so I tried it with it closed and it fired right up.
Thanks for all the help from OTT folks :).
 
Last edited:

chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
I guess I don't have permission to post a link until I have 5 post, no spam bots wanted here lol.
Funny thing is it's a link to this forum :).
Here's the title of the post; L3200 Engine Will Turn Over but Won't Start from 8-3-15.
I'll post the actual link as soon as I'm allowed as I feel it may be pertinent to someone else searching for the same issue.
 
Last edited:

thepumpguysc

Member
Aug 8, 2018
267
1
16
Sunny South Carolina
WELL.. it sounds as if you did all the "basic" steps.. SO NOW, whatcha need to do is
REMOVE the shut off solenoid.. reach in the hole & see if you can move the control rack back & forth..
That "not pumping on the middle cylinder" has me worried..
If something happened to the middle cyl. on the pump, it could have "jammed" the rack & u were at low idle.. so the engine probably wont start w/ the low idle fuel delivery on 2 cylinders.. get it??
On starting, the pump is at "starting" position.. it has a lot more fuel.. its called "starting fuel delivery"..
Have u tried starting it at FULL THROTTLE?? THAT might help..
When u pull the sol., move the throttle to wide open before u check the rack movement..
IF u have a side cover below the injection pump... pull/remove it.. you'll gain access to all the goodies u need to see..
Lemme know.. TPG
 

chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
WELL.. it sounds as if you did all the "basic" steps.. SO NOW, whatcha need to do is
REMOVE the shut off solenoid.. reach in the hole & see if you can move the control rack back & forth..
That "not pumping on the middle cylinder" has me worried..
If something happened to the middle cyl. on the pump, it could have "jammed" the rack & u were at low idle.. so the engine probably wont start w/ the low idle fuel delivery on 2 cylinders.. get it??
On starting, the pump is at "starting" position.. it has a lot more fuel.. its called "starting fuel delivery"..
Have u tried starting it at FULL THROTTLE?? THAT might help..
When u pull the sol., move the throttle to wide open before u check the rack movement..
IF u have a side cover below the injection pump... pull/remove it.. you'll gain access to all the goodies u need to see..
Lemme know.. TPG
Thanks for the reply pumpguy.
It didn't appear as though it was pumping much at the others, I just thought there was some fuel at the other two the first time opening the lines and cranking the engine, but that was the only time anything came out of any of them
All bleeding was done at full throttle, and I tried to start it at full throttle.
I've never pulled a shut off solenoid before, but it doesn't look hard, just couple bolts and the clip for the wiring.
I also do not know what the rack is, is it pretty self explanatory once the solenoid is out.
 

Jim L.

Active member
Jun 18, 2014
811
86
28
Texas
1. Please post the transmission type, e.g. HST, manual, etc.

2. Has the fuel filter ever been cleaned or changed?

3. The fuel sensor is easy to check. It is on the top of the fuel tank towards left side of tractor. Disconnect the insulated tab connector. Measuring with an ohmmeter from the sensor tab on the sensor to the sensor ground:

Full tank resistance: 1-5 ohms

Empty tank resistance: 103-117 ohms.

A bad connection will show as an empty tank due to high resistance.
 

thepumpguysc

Member
Aug 8, 2018
267
1
16
Sunny South Carolina
Yes it will be self explanatory.. You'll see how it works.. The sol. has a plunger on the end, that hits an engine "control rack"... that rack is linked to the control rack of the inj. pump..
{2 racks, 1 engine, 1 pump}
& YES> by all means, check or replace your fuel filter.. just because "it looks" ok doesn't mean it is..
I would MAKE SURE your getting PLENTY of fuel TO the inj. pump inlet bolt.. Get a clean pan & REMOVE the bolt{banjo bolt} & let it run into the pan.. Check the flow & quality of the fuel..
Use your finger or small screw driver or cut up a coat hanger to check the control rack movement.. if the hole is to small..
 

thepumpguysc

Member
Aug 8, 2018
267
1
16
Sunny South Carolina
I just searched L3800 injection pump to SEE what kinda set-up you have..
Up popped a L3200 pump removal procedure w/ pictures.. I don't know if yours is the same?
I do so many of these dam things they all run together.. a pumps a pump to me.. if I can see it, I can remove it, if ya know what I mean..
It looks like u have a side plate below the pump according to the 3200 breakdown??
I would remove that.. it'll give u access to everything important.. & if u have to remove the pump, your a step ahead of the game..
BUT>> MAKE SURE to check your flow & filter first..
 

Jim L.

Active member
Jun 18, 2014
811
86
28
Texas
The L3200 and the L3800 have the same workshop manual and the same pictures.

And like the pump guy said, check flow and filter before touching the pump.
 

D2Cat

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

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L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
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40 miles south of Kansas City
Chipper1, welcome. I noticed you said,"...he said it was out of gas, it was low, but I didn't think it was that low."

You did use diesel, didn't you?:D
 
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chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
Chipper1, welcome. I noticed you said,"...he said it was out of gas, it was low, but I didn't think it was that low."

You did use diesel, didn't you?:D
I hope so lol.
It was obvious it was, I spilled a bit on the hood when I filled it :(.
Thanks though, good idea to start with the easy stuff right. Regardless I don't have anything making it to the injectors gas or diesel fuel :).

Just to let you guys know I'm not getting an alert to the thread in my email. I tried to change the settings so we'll see if that works.
Edit, got the alerts fixed.
 
Last edited:

chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
1. Please post the transmission type, e.g. HST, manual, etc.

2. Has the fuel filter ever been cleaned or changed?

3. The fuel sensor is easy to check. It is on the top of the fuel tank towards left side of tractor. Disconnect the insulated tab connector. Measuring with an ohmmeter from the sensor tab on the sensor to the sensor ground:

Full tank resistance: 1-5 ohms

Empty tank resistance: 103-117 ohms.

A bad connection will show as an empty tank due to high resistance.
Thanks for the reply Jim.
1.Trans is a HST, without the cruse control option.
2.I just did the oil/filter, air filters, fuel filters under 20hrs ago and she's been running well since.
3. Just looked real quick at the top of the tank both from under the hood and from under the dash as best as I could and the only wires I saw are the ones on the right under the hood, they are the wires that come off the hood and the ones from the fuel shut off, but I didn't see the sensor. I use right just as in car descriptions, that being my right if I was sitting on the machine.
Thanks again.
 

chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
Yes it will be self explanatory.. You'll see how it works.. The sol. has a plunger on the end, that hits an engine "control rack"... that rack is linked to the control rack of the inj. pump..
{2 racks, 1 engine, 1 pump}
& YES> by all means, check or replace your fuel filter.. just because "it looks" ok doesn't mean it is..
I would MAKE SURE your getting PLENTY of fuel TO the inj. pump inlet bolt.. Get a clean pan & REMOVE the bolt{banjo bolt} & let it run into the pan.. Check the flow & quality of the fuel..
Use your finger or small screw driver or cut up a coat hanger to check the control rack movement.. if the hole is to small..
Okay, but I won't be pulling it apart for a bit as I want to be able to reinstall it right away, it's outside and I don't want anything getting lost/misplaced.
Filter is flowing fine as proven by the flow at the downstream side of the lift pump, it was also recently replaced and has been working great as stated above.
It is also a Kubota filter not an aftermarket one.
Fuel looks great and I even put some on a paper towel and lit it just to be sure, nice slow burn, I enjoy a good fire.
From looking around it doesn't appear as though I will be able to get my finger in there.
I just searched L3800 injection pump to SEE what kinda set-up you have..
Up popped a L3200 pump removal procedure w/ pictures.. I don't know if yours is the same?
I do so many of these dam things they all run together.. a pumps a pump to me.. if I can see it, I can remove it, if ya know what I mean..
It looks like u have a side plate below the pump according to the 3200 breakdown??
I would remove that.. it'll give u access to everything important.. & if u have to remove the pump, your a step ahead of the game..
BUT>> MAKE SURE to check your flow & filter first..
I've done a bunch of searching, can't come up with that thread, do you have a link. Google probably knows what to search for you, it's not liking me, and I've read all the threads the search feature here gives you.
Is there a way to start the tractor with the fuel shut off removed safely to check that the shut off it the problem or not.

Here's the link to the other thread that sounded great as I had not initially checked the other fuses but only the ones in the box above your left foot, but the other fuses were fine also. I'll also edit the first post so if someone is having an issue they can find it quickly.
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20970&page=2
 

Jim L.

Active member
Jun 18, 2014
811
86
28
Texas
but I didn't see the sensor. I use right just as in car descriptions, that being my right if I was sitting on the machine.
Same convention, tractor side means same as you're sitting.

The fuel gauge sensor is just at the crack with the hood open. To take off the hood:

Disconnect electrical connector to headlights under hood and tractor right side.

2 bolts on hinge of hood, back these out about half-way.

Pull pin(s) to pneumatic piston connected to hood that holds it open and disconnect.

Hood can now be removed.
 

chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
Same convention, tractor side means same as you're sitting.

The fuel gauge sensor is just at the crack with the hood open. To take off the hood:

Disconnect electrical connector to headlights under hood and tractor right side.

2 bolts on hinge of hood, back these out about half-way.

Pull pin(s) to pneumatic piston connected to hood that holds it open and disconnect.

Hood can now be removed.
Thanks, I'll look again.
I'm now getting emails on the thread, whoot whoot.
Is there somewhere I should see an alert on the site when someone posts in a thread I'm watching?
 

Jim L.

Active member
Jun 18, 2014
811
86
28
Texas
More thoughts.

1. Maybe the fuel cap is not venting. Loosen it to see if that is the problem.

2. An air leak. Check hoses running from fuel tank for cracks.

3. Bad diesel. Drain it and put in fresh.

4. Check the air filter for restrictions.
 

chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
More thoughts.

1. Maybe the fuel cap is not venting. Loosen it to see if that is the problem.

2. An air leak. Check hoses running from fuel tank for cracks.

3. Bad diesel. Drain it and put in fresh.

4. Check the air filter for restrictions.
Tried that right away after it wouldn't prime itself. Also it will run fuel out no problem on the downstream side of the lift pump.
It would have to have an air leak after the lift pump as there is no air in the system to that point. I looked at that, but ran out of time to check to the injector pump, that's next, then pulling the fuel shut off.
I took some and put it on a paper towel and it lit up well and burned nice and slow, it could be bad, but U don't think so.
To me the question is why isn't the fuel making it to the injectors.
Thanks for the suggestions though, I'm listening :).
 

chipper1

New member

Equipment
2012 Kubota L3800
Sep 19, 2018
19
0
1
Grand Rapids MI USA
If your not gonna take it apart.. how are u going to fix anything??
LOL.
I'll pull it apart, but I'm pretty busy and it's sitting outside right now, I would rather wait until I have more than 5 min to work on it to take it apart.
I did look it over a bit and managed to find the fuel gauge sensor, it was covered with leaves. The funny thing is I was looking at them thinking I needed to blow them out.
Thanks :).
 

Boatman

Active member

Equipment
Kubota L2800, Kubota BX1870
Nov 26, 2016
167
54
28
Mill Spring, NC, US
I had exactly the same symptoms on my L2800 that turned out the be the fuel cutoff solenoid. Looks like the 2800 and the 3800 have the same setup. When you remove the fuel solenoid, turn the key and see if the engine starts. If it does then you just confirmed the fuel solenoid. If not then keep looking. If it does start you can shut it down with the manual cutoff lever.