EGR or not?

North Idaho Wolfman

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I am still thinking that this gemisch of vapors ends up being added to the fresh air going into the cylinder? So that there is "air" from three sources being used for combustion, the air filter, the EGR, and the crankcase vent breather source? Or at least on my engine?
You are exactly right, it's air getting sent into loops over and over again! :eek:

And You think your the only one that slips, HA, I do it on a hourly basis! :p :rolleyes:
You still have me beat on your knowledge and understanding of the emission system and it's controls! ;)
 

dandeman

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do you feel good when inhaling smoke? your oil will get black quicker with a vehicle using a egr. as will the intake manifold. the intake valves, piston and rings will be subject to more corrosion.
the primary purpose of a egr is to lower combustion temperatures, reducing the formation of nitrogen oxides.
a good system that lowers pollution, is the use of a crankcase vent system. which keeps oil from dripping from a vent tube older engines used.
On gasoline engines it also allows the engine to be built with higher compression ratios and/or more ignition advance for more responsive power as the inert exhaust gas also helps avoid getting into detonation.

Had an early '80s car that I re-jetted the carburetor, tried different ignition advance curves and in the end found that it ran the best with EGR present as I could run more aggressive ignition advance that really make it responsive.
 
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Wild and Free

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EGR on gas engine is a different animal than on a diesel engine.
 

lugbolt

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Think about the "unburned diesel, water, oil,soot etc" that you mentioned and then think real carefully about fuel injector failure. Also consider that military and many emergency vehicles don't have that emissions crap installed. Why would that be? Because those vehicles need to be reliable in the case of war or any emergencies.
It's done because they bought credits to omit some items from the engine. In the end, they paid dearly but saved some cash in the form of a less complex engine assembly which requires a little less maintenance. In a fleet, that adds up.

We have this stuff because the government says it's the law. They're not required to have an EGR but the EGR does help the manufacturer meet the government mandated levels of certain gasses that come out of the tail pipe. Does it have consequences? Probably. But I've never seen an EGR fail on a Kubota. Not yet anyway. And they've been out for a while.

They're also not required to have a DPF or SCR system but they do mandate the emission of gasses and particles, and thus far, the DPF and SCR systems are the most economical way to meet those standards. Someone will probably come up with something different someday, will it be better? Time will tell.

On the 1970's and 80's cars and trucks...you can remove the EGR easily. But your fuel mileage goes down (usually). On those, the inert gases that are allowed into the intake stream helps with fuel efficiency among other things. Cars and trucks still use the same principles but the systems that go along with it have come a LONG way since even the early 90's. It it no longer something you take off because the engine will not like it unless other items are addressed at the same time. Specifically the computer programming.

And diesels are a totally different animal when it comes to EGR. Leave it alone. It hasn't been problematic. It's either deal with EGR or deal with Tier IV stuff.
 

armylifer

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I have seen kits that bypass the EGR on Duramax engines. I have also seen the bypass kit in operation and it does increase fuel mileage. I don't know if such exist for the Kubota's
 

Wild and Free

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I have seen kits that bypass the EGR on Duramax engines. I have also seen the bypass kit in operation and it does increase fuel mileage. I don't know if such exist for the Kubota's
There are aftermarket EGR delete kits for about every automotive diesel on the road because as I posted above EGR on a diesel will most always lead to a plugged intake manifold eventually.
 

lugbolt

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I have seen kits that bypass the EGR on Duramax engines. I have also seen the bypass kit in operation and it does increase fuel mileage. I don't know if such exist for the Kubota's

Removing EGR-in itself-does not help fuel mileage. Changing the tune does, and you can't remove EGR on an automotive diesel without adjusting the tune. Thats where your fuel mileage improvement comes from. I've done a couple on the VT365's in the Fords. Never touched a Duramax other than oil changes. Never had any more motivation than that to mess with them. One reason being that so many times over the years I've been messing with them, customer brings it in for basic stuff...oil/filter, air filter, etc....pick it up, call me 45 minutes later saying that whatever I did to it made his injector(s) go out. And Dmax injectors are not cheap-and failures are common.
 

armylifer

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Removing EGR-in itself-does not help fuel mileage. Changing the tune does, and you can't remove EGR on an automotive diesel without adjusting the tune. Thats where your fuel mileage improvement comes from. I've done a couple on the VT365's in the Fords. Never touched a Duramax other than oil changes. Never had any more motivation than that to mess with them. One reason being that so many times over the years I've been messing with them, customer brings it in for basic stuff...oil/filter, air filter, etc....pick it up, call me 45 minutes later saying that whatever I did to it made his injector(s) go out. And Dmax injectors are not cheap-and failures are common.
I was speaking of an EGR delete kit. It is not the EGR Blocker plate that you may be thinking of. The delete kit that I have blocks the exhaust gasses from entering the air intake and re-routes them to atmosphere. There is no tune necessary for the kit that I have. Here is a link to one similar to what I am talking about. This is not the exact kit that I have but it appears to do the same thing as my kit does.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EGR-Delete-...MM-/172294732127?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

The EGR delete kit that I have on my truck produced more than a 10% increase in fuel mileage. I went from almost always getting in the 15+ MPG range to getting around 17 MPG. These are real world results for me, others may not see the same results. However, one thing that they will see is a much cleaner operating engine, I did.
 

Jimc3165

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I wondered if anyone has seen any data on fuel efficiency with and without an EGR? I am assuming the exhaust gas contains some unburned diesel, water, oil,soot etc? So using the unburned diesel could add to efficiency, not sure about the rest. The EGR on mine has a line to return oil to the oil pan.
I can not advise better fuel efficiency on tractors but on my 2007 Ram 6.7 my hwy MPG went from 16-17 to 19-21 and my towing MPG improved to 11.5-12 from 9. So in my experience I'd say they would be better off with that crazy system deleted.
 

DMM

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EGR displaces O2 in the combustion charge, which lowers combustion cylinder temps. Excessive combustion cylinder temps fuse the inert atmospheric nitrogen molecules with the remaining oxides to create NO, a.k.a. Smog, and cause detonation in gasoline engines.

Unless you mess with the tune, the EGR will be fine. Once you add power (fuel) you then risk incomplete burn which will clog the EGR and affect its performance. The Ford/Navi 6.0 gave EGR valves a really bad name. I never understood why people disabled it in gasoline engines since it mainly operates under part throttle cruise conditions to allow for additional spark advance.

Gasoline engines have gotten away from EGR's simply bc they can manipulate combustion temps through cam overlap (lobe separation) or camshaft phasing. This cannot be done on a diesel.
 
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zehrbrox

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bought my m7040suhd new non current last feb. disconnected the vacline and plugged the valve and the tube. engine has been running great on it. fuel consumption is great. as in if it were better i'd be making it lol. and checked the oil on it the other day 120hrs since last oil change and oil is still clear looking. theres 273 hrs on it as of tonight. used from rock picking, seeding, some plowing, rototilling, logging, and everything in between. love the tractor and haven't been disappointed yet. right umm EGR=bad for motor, bearings turbo ect. IMO