EGR or not?

gwtx · Oct 18, 2016

I am new owner of a used 2012 M8540 HDC-1. The tubing connecting the EGR valve is severed. I have read several articles/posts about the "pros and cons" of the egr system.
Some say it's better for the engine, some say not. Then there is the environmental issue.
My main concern is for the health of the engine. I will probably re connect and test to see if the valve is working, but I would appreciate any experiences/opinions on whether or not to run the egr. One of the main reasons I bought the 2012 model was because I did not want ANY emissions controls to "mess" with. I didn't know the 2012 had egr,,,it does.

kuboman · Oct 18, 2016

Think of it like this. How good for your health would it be to eat your own poop?
Exhaust ingestion for an engine was always considered harmful until environmentalism went crazy.

North Idaho Wolfman · Oct 18, 2016

What are you calling the EGR?
And where did you find it?

1970cs · Oct 19, 2016

Pictures would help!

Tx Jim · Oct 19, 2016

Key 010. My '11 M7040 also has a EGR valve

gwtx · Oct 19, 2016

kuboman said:
Think of it like this. How good for your health would it be to eat your own poop?
Exhaust ingestion for an engine was always considered harmful until environmentalism went crazy.

That's pretty much what I have always thought. I remember in the 70's, I disconnected, disabled, blocked off the EGR on every car I bought.
I just wanted to get some input from folks that have a lot more experience with diesel engines than I have. Thanks for the input.

gwtx · Oct 19, 2016

Tx Jim said:
Key 010. My '11 M7040 also has a EGR valve

Thanks TxJim for the pic. This is the same setup my 8540 has.
I'm wondering if there would be any benefit to remove the components, or just plug off the connection on the turbo, and leave all else as is. ???

North Idaho Wolfman · Oct 19, 2016

Gwtx,
You have a M8540HSC-1, the M8540HDC did not have the EGR valve that's why I was asking where you seen it, wasn't disagreeing with you saying it had it, Thanks Tx Jim for the pic to clarify it's location.

I don't see a reason why you couldn't do a delete on it, it's a mechanical Injection pump so no reprogramming required, it's only when you get into the common rail systems that it becomes an issue.

If you wanted to do very clean delete, the M8540HDC intake and exhaust manifolds do not have the EGR provisions, and would bolt right on.

sheepfarmer · Oct 19, 2016

I wondered if anyone has seen any data on fuel efficiency with and without an EGR? I am assuming the exhaust gas contains some unburned diesel, water, oil,soot etc? So using the unburned diesel could add to efficiency, not sure about the rest. The EGR on mine has a line to return oil to the oil pan.

bucktail · Oct 19, 2016

sheepfarmer said:
I wondered if anyone has seen any data on fuel efficiency with and without an EGR? I am assuming the exhaust gas contains some unburned diesel, water, oil,soot etc? So using the unburned diesel could add to efficiency, not sure about the rest. The EGR on mine has a line to return oil to the oil pan.

That doesn't sound right. Are you sure it isn't the crankcase vent dumping into the intake? (instead of the atmosphere as nature intended)

armylifer · Oct 19, 2016

sheepfarmer said:
I wondered if anyone has seen any data on fuel efficiency with and without an EGR? I am assuming the exhaust gas contains some unburned diesel, water, oil,soot etc? So using the unburned diesel could add to efficiency, not sure about the rest. The EGR on mine has a line to return oil to the oil pan.

Think about the "unburned diesel, water, oil,soot etc" that you mentioned and then think real carefully about fuel injector failure. Also consider that military and many emergency vehicles don't have that emissions crap installed. Why would that be? Because those vehicles need to be reliable in the case of war or any emergencies.

gwtx · Oct 19, 2016

North Idaho Wolfman said:
Gwtx,
You have a M8540HSC-1, the M8540HDC did not have the EGR valve that's why I was asking where you seen it, wasn't disagreeing with you saying it had it, Thanks Tx Jim for the pic to clarify it's location.

I don't see a reason why you couldn't do a delete on it, it's a mechanical Injection pump so no reprogramming required, it's only when you get into the common rail systems that it becomes an issue.

If you wanted to do very clean delete, the M8540HDC intake and exhaust manifolds do not have the EGR provisions, and would bolt right on.

Thanks for clarifying the model code. Most of the ads I saw when online shopping didn't distinguish between models, not even open station/cabs. They usually just say m8540.
I'm new to Kubota's, AND buying tractors. The last one I bought was in 1990,,,,and I'm still running it. Talk about "sticker shock" ! Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Gary

North Idaho Wolfman · Oct 19, 2016

sheepfarmer said:
The EGR on mine has a line to return oil to the oil pan.

Actually the line you are seeing is a coolant line, they use it to try and keep the EGR from overheating.

And I would like to note: This is a first, you usually have be beat hands down on anything emissions related!

sheepfarmer · Oct 19, 2016

My memory could be slipping I'll have to check but I thought the thing on mine took a fraction of the exhaust, cooled it maybe, ran the vapors back into the intake somewhere, and then the oil drained down. Now I am curious..I'll get back later.

Daren Todd · Oct 19, 2016

sheepfarmer said:
My memory could be slipping I'll have to check but I thought the thing on mine took a fraction of the exhaust, cooled it maybe, ran the vapors back into the intake somewhere, and then the oil drained down. Now I am curious..I'll get back later.

I remember seeing some posts on a recall for the tier 4 engines for the crank case vent collecting moisture and freezing. Don't remember what the fix for it was though.

gwtx · Oct 19, 2016

@ wolfman:

North Idaho Wolfman said:
Gwtx,
You have a M8540HSC-1, the M8540HDC did not have the EGR valve that's why I was asking where you seen it, wasn't disagreeing with you saying it had it, Thanks Tx Jim for the pic to clarify it's location.

And I'm NOT disagreeing with you, cause like I said, I'm new to Kubotas, but,,,
I have been looking everywhere for information on a 2012 M8540HSC-1. I can't find anything on TractorData, google, or bing. Is this a limited run or something??.....or maybe M8540hDc-1 ?

sheepfarmer · Oct 19, 2016

Daren has identified my point of confusion, one of many, I have mixed up EGR with the crankcase vent, breather, oil separator circuit. I tried to figure out why I can't keep them straight, and aside from the fact that all of the exploded diagrams helpfully label these parts either tube or pipe without even a hint as to what goes in them, they both have tubes bolted on to the intake manifold side of the engine.

NIW is correct that the tube associated with the EGR contains water. I even found a diagram labeled in my handwriting that says so

so you know I am really slipping. The tube from the oil separator does oddly enough have oil in it.

Sorry to add to the confusion, but I am still thinking that this gemisch of vapors ends up being added to the fresh air going into the cylinder? So that there is "air" from three sources being used for combustion, the air filter, the EGR, and the crankcase vent breather source? Or at least on my engine?

tempforce · Oct 20, 2016

do you feel good when inhaling smoke? your oil will get black quicker with a vehicle using a egr. as will the intake manifold. the intake valves, piston and rings will be subject to more corrosion.
the primary purpose of a egr is to lower combustion temperatures, reducing the formation of nitrogen oxides.
a good system that lowers pollution, is the use of a crankcase vent system. which keeps oil from dripping from a vent tube older engines used.

Wild and Free · Oct 20, 2016

EGR systems are awesome...............for carboned up and plugged intake systems, shops, mechanics and parts sales.

North Idaho Wolfman · Oct 20, 2016

gwtx said:
@ wolfman:

And I'm NOT disagreeing with you, cause like I said, I'm new to Kubotas, but,,,
I have been looking everywhere for information on a 2012 M8540HSC-1. I can't find anything on TractorData, google, or bing. Is this a limited run or something??.....or maybe M8540hDc-1 ?

The -1 just means that it was a change in some key part of the tractor, like emissions control in this case.

Here are all the different models and variations of the M8540's (the M8540 only has -1 right now, might change to others later), and no most sources of info will not go into -1 -2 -3 differences.

EGR or not?

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