advice needed! B6000 v B7001 vs XB-1 vs B1502

Peeter · Feb 9, 2019

Hello,
some advice would be welcome.
Planning on buying a small tractor.

I need it for:
clearing snow around my workshop,
mowing lawn/leveling lawn.
pulling trailers in and out of my workshop (aprox. 2 ton)
clearing snow at my mother-in-laws house, should fit light trailer (max weight around 550kg).

The tractors:
B6000 is the cheapest at 1900 eur. Reverse PTO would not be much of a problem as I would make my own implements.
B7001 is a Zen-Noh. Price is 2800eur. It is a bit bigger and more powerful than the 6000, but is it worth the extra money?
XB-1 is also 2800eur. Is it a newer/better model?
B1502 is 3000eur. As I understand it is bigger, but is it also better? Any idea on the gross weight?

Thank you for any advice

torch · Feb 9, 2019

Peeter said:
I need it for:
clearing snow around my workshop,
mowing lawn/leveling lawn.
pulling trailers in and out of my workshop (aprox. 2 ton)
clearing snow at my mother-in-laws house, should fit light trailer (max weight around 550kg).

It's going to be very difficult to keep within your weight budget. Both the B6000 and the B7001 are around 500kg, assuming 2WD. More like 520kg after you add fluids and battery. And add 60kg for 4WD. A snowblower adds 150 - 200kg, a snow blade might be about 1/2 of that, depending on height and width. How much snow do you need to move?

Dave_eng · Feb 9, 2019

One issue that I have no idea about in Estonia.

Some small Kubota's designed for the Asian market, had pto shafts which rotated in the opposite direction than is the standard in North America.

This becomes an issue for pto driven implements like snow blowers and tillers.

Dave

North Idaho Wolfman · Feb 9, 2019

Dave_eng said:
One issue that I have no idea about in Estonia.

Some small Kubota's designed for the Asian market, had pto shafts which rotated in the opposite direction than is the standard in North America.

This becomes an issue for pto driven implements like snow blowers and tillers.

Dave

There was only one, and that was the B6000, and the OP is aware of that issue.

Peeter · Feb 10, 2019

torch said:
It's going to be very difficult to keep within your weight budget. Both the B6000 and the B7001 are around 500kg, assuming 2WD. More like 520kg after you add fluids and battery. And add 60kg for 4WD. A snowblower adds 150 - 200kg, a snow blade might be about 1/2 of that, depending on height and width. How much snow do you need to move?

Tractordata lists the b7001 at 476 kg, but it might be referring to a 2WD model.
ALL the tractors on my list are 4WD.

I was planning on having a snow blade and an added weight at the back (keep one of the weights at my mother-in-laws house to reduce the tractors weight for transport. But now that you have said it, it does seem that I didnt think it through.

I can also use my truck to transport the tractor (legally max 1000kg, plus it has a crane). But it is not as economical.

This year we have about half a meter of snow altogether. But it comes in at about 10-15 cm at a time so I am sure if i clear it right away it wount be a problem for the tractor. Also, if possible I would add a FEL in the future.

I read from somewhere that the B7001 is far easyer to get parts for than the B6000. Is the XB-1 newer and even better?

Peeter · Feb 10, 2019

Dave_eng said:
One issue that I have no idea about in Estonia.

Some small Kubota's designed for the Asian market, had pto shafts which rotated in the opposite direction than is the standard in North America.

This becomes an issue for pto driven implements like snow blowers and tillers.

Dave

All the tracktors on my list are JDM. I am aware of the reverse pto on the B6000, I suspect that is the reason it is cheaper

I was planning on making my own mower, so it would not matter. Our normal PTO rotation is the same as yours.

torch · Feb 10, 2019

Peeter said:
Tractordata lists the b7001 at 476 kg, but it might be referring to a 2WD model.

My estimate was based on the weight of a B7100, which is very similar to the B7001. Mind you, I have the HST model and that may add a bit of weight too.

4WD is probably a very good idea if you are going to use a blade. A blade is OK if you have a place to push the snow. Until and unless you add a FEL, the snow is going to stay where it gets pushed, so you want a blade that you can push rather than drag -- something mounted to the front of the tractor or a 3PH version that can rotate backwards.

And lots of space to push it to -- that snow storage space will gradually close in on you. My neighbour uses a push blade on his side-by-side four-wheeler. Once or twice a year I go over and relocate his piles with my blower -- but we get about 5 meters of snow a year.

A FEL can be very useful, not just for piling snow. But it adds weight. I built a FEL and a cab for my 4WD B7100 HST. With the snowblower hanging on the 3PH and tires filled 50% with windshield washer fluid, my rig weighs in at just under 1,100kg. Call it 1,000kg without the cab 900kg with a 3ph blade instead of a blower. Will be more if you use a separate pump and oil reservoir for the FEL.

You might need to upgrade your trailer. Or, depending on local laws and distance, maybe you could road the tractor back and forth to your mother-in-law's home? In high range I think mine does about 15kph. I'm not sure how gear transmissions compare, but I would guess you are still in the 10-15kph range.

In my area, it is legal to drive a tractor along the road, provided it has a "slow moving vehicle" sign attached. I have a friend who just underwent heart surgery and lives about 2km away. I find it's just as fast or faster to road the tractor back and forth to do his driveway than it is to hook up the trailer, clean out the snow from the trailer, load the tractor and chain it down, unload at his place and reverse the process to get home.

I don't even want to think what would be involved to load it on a truck with a crane.

I can't speak to the XB-1. Many parts for the B7100 (most of which are the same for the B7001) still seem to be readily available from Kubota. I just changed my clutch and the dealer had the parts from the main warehouse overnight. I'm sure that some of the less common parts are no longer available through Kubota, but the B7001/B7100/B6100 series of tractors were made for over 20 years so used and even aftermarket parts are available. At least they are over here -- the situation may be different in Estonia.

Peeter · Feb 10, 2019

torch said:
My estimate was based on the weight of a B7100, which is very similar to the B7001. Mind you, I have the HST model and that may add a bit of weight too.

4WD is probably a very good idea if you are going to use a blade. A blade is OK if you have a place to push the snow. Until and unless you add a FEL, the snow is going to stay where it gets pushed, so you want a blade that you can push rather than drag -- something mounted to the front of the tractor or a 3PH version that can rotate backwards.

And lots of space to push it to -- that snow storage space will gradually close in on you. My neighbour uses a push blade on his side-by-side four-wheeler. Once or twice a year I go over and relocate his piles with my blower -- but we get about 5 meters of snow a year.

A FEL can be very useful, not just for piling snow. But it adds weight. I built a FEL and a cab for my 4WD B7100 HST. With the snowblower hanging on the 3PH and tires filled 50% with windshield washer fluid, my rig weighs in at just under 1,100kg. Call it 1,000kg without the cab 900kg with a 3ph blade instead of a blower. Will be more if you use a separate pump and oil reservoir for the FEL.

You might need to upgrade your trailer. Or, depending on local laws and distance, maybe you could road the tractor back and forth to your mother-in-law's home? In high range I think mine does about 15kph. I'm not sure how gear transmissions compare, but I would guess you are still in the 10-15kph range.

In my area, it is legal to drive a tractor along the road, provided it has a "slow moving vehicle" sign attached. I have a friend who just underwent heart surgery and lives about 2km away. I find it's just as fast or faster to road the tractor back and forth to do his driveway than it is to hook up the trailer, clean out the snow from the trailer, load the tractor and chain it down, unload at his place and reverse the process to get home.

I don't even want to think what would be involved to load it on a truck with a crane.

I can't speak to the XB-1. Many parts for the B7100 (most of which are the same for the B7001) still seem to be readily available from Kubota. I just changed my clutch and the dealer had the parts from the main warehouse overnight. I'm sure that some of the less common parts are no longer available through Kubota, but the B7001/B7100/B6100 series of tractors were made for over 20 years so used and even aftermarket parts are available. At least they are over here -- the situation may be different in Estonia.

Thank you for the thorough reply

The planned snow blade would be in the front with dampers and angeling system-- for light snow.
Transporting the tractor on the road would be fun, my mother-in-law lives 80 km away

Lifting the tractor with the crane is not a problem, I would have to make a ROPS and a front bumper anyway so I will incorporate some lifting eyes. Also I can make ramps but the crane seems safer. I am a proffessional welder by trade (but dont know much about tractors).

To conclude:
Keeping the tractor under 550kg is not really possible, unless I carry implements separately. So would it be better to get the B1502 than, as the weight limit is busted anyway?
The B7001 is more common than the b6000 so know-how and parts are more available? Is the 7001 significantly better to use aswell? The wheels on the 7001 should be bigger so that would increase traction.

torch · Feb 10, 2019

Peeter said:
So would it be better to get the B1502 than, as the weight limit is busted anyway?
The B7001 is more common than the b6000 so know-how and parts are more available? Is the 7001 significantly better to use aswell? The wheels on the 7001 should be bigger so that would increase traction.

I don't know much about the B1502. I believe the engine is slightly bigger than the B7001, which in turn is slightly bigger than the B6000. The difference in horsepower between the B6000 and the B1502 is "only" about 3hp, but the other way to look at that is the B1502 has 25% more HP than the B6000.

The B1502 might be one of the models produced in partnership with the people who now make Kioti. If so, then it might be harder to find parts for these machines (the two keep suing each other). But while the B7001 might be a good bet over here due to the great numbers of B7100s sold in this country, your local situation could be completely different. I would definitely do some local research before buying anything.

Peeter · Feb 10, 2019

torch said:
The B1502 might be one of the models produced in partnership with the people who now make Kioti. If so, then it might be harder to find parts for these machines (the two keep suing each other). But while the B7001 might be a good bet over here due to the great numbers of B7100s sold in this country, your local situation could be completely different. I would definitely do some local research before buying anything.

That would explain why I can't find any information about the 1502, maybe the xb-1 is the same deal? The design sure looks different.
I am sure no new b7xxx kubotas have ever been sold here

. Since we were a former soviet union country, there was very little western technology before 1990. And since there are a lot of cheap old russian tractors around, the Japanese tractors are not numerous. I suspect that I would have to get the spare parts of ebay etc. There are some small (one man operation) companys that import used Japanese tractors, but I would not rely on them.

North Idaho Wolfman · Feb 10, 2019

In my opinion you would be the best off with the B7001 for versatility, parts, and all around performance.
The B1502 also is semi common in RUS, and some of europe, so that could do well for you too for parts.
The B1502 is the newer of the lot, but just slightly.

They are all the same size range, but HP the B7001 is the highest of them all.
The B7001 is at 16HP
The XB-1 is a pitiful 12HP
The B1502 is 15HP

torch · Feb 10, 2019

North Idaho Wolfman said:
The B1502 is 15HP

I thought the B1502 had the D850? Is 15hp at the PTO perhaps? Not that there's a huge difference -- hours on the engine is probably the biggest factor now!

Peeter · Apr 10, 2019

Finally had time to go and see the tractors!
Oh boy

The b7001:
Turns out, its front diff is broken. The pinion gear shaft (where the prop shaft attaches to) is wobbling, turns freely and has rusty schmoo aroud it. I guess that is caused by lack of maintenance/oil. Indication, that the rest of the tracktor is also neglected?
The shaft that holds the brake pedals is worn aboud 1-2mm, tie rod ends connectind the steering box to the front axel are worn out. The shaft that holds the front axel to the tractor is worn and the front wheels can move about half an inch forwards/backwards. Also there was some oil leaking from the rear axel, enough to mark territory but not to add oil daily.
At about 37F, with about 5 sec of glow plugs and the engine fired right up! Dont remember any excessive smoke, some blue at first. Ran sweet. There was some light oil leak at the front. When I looked in the oil cap, I could see some thin black gunk on components, but about 50% was shiny. Would that be an indication that the oil has not beed changed in a while? I know that diesel oil turn black all most immediately, but that was more like thin tar. Also, the shaft holding the throttle lever on the fuel pump wobbled about 1mm side to side and a bit up and down as well.
I did a test drive, stopped it, it cooled for a while but was still warm to touch. And when he tried to start it again without glowplugs it didnt fire up in about 3-5 sec. He then used the glow plugs and it fired right up. Is that normal or indication of a worn engine. Seller claimed that Kubotas need glowplugs even when warm?
He let the price down from 3400 to 3000 and said that he would get a new used front axel from Japan in two months which he would sell me for 400...

What do you think, does it sound too bad?

PS: BIG mistake driving it, now I cant sleep

torch · Apr 10, 2019

Peeter said:
At about 37F, with about 5 sec of glow plugs and the engine fired right up!

I did a test drive, stopped it, it cooled for a while but was still warm to touch. And when he tried to start it again without glowplugs it didnt fire up in about 3-5 sec. He then used the glow plugs and it fired right up. Is that normal or indication of a worn engine. Seller claimed that Kubotas need glowplugs even when warm?

Sounds right for that air temp. If it's warm outside and the engine is warm then you might start it without glowing first, but that cool outside and after sitting a while: I think it is reasonable.

PaulL · Apr 10, 2019

I couldn't tell you if that's a good price fro the condition - so you'll need to decide that yourself. But to me that sounds like a tractor that's not really a good buy, and that you're just excited about the first tractor you drove. All the rest you drive will give you that same feeling - I'd drive a few more.

To me that one sounds like a bit of a dud that's been abused. It might all be easy to fix, but it might also be an indicator that other things on it will be in poor condition and that you'll spend a lot of time fixing it. Are you able to look at other tractors (not necessarily Kubotas) in the same price range, and just get a feel for whether that's the condition you can afford, or whether that one is in unusually poor condition? I don't know your market, but here in NZ the things you mention I think would be red flags.

Peeter · Apr 11, 2019

PaulL said:
I couldn't tell you if that's a good price fro the condition - so you'll need to decide that yourself. But to me that sounds like a tractor that's not really a good buy, and that you're just excited about the first tractor you drove. All the rest you drive will give you that same feeling - I'd drive a few more.

To me that one sounds like a bit of a dud that's been abused. It might all be easy to fix, but it might also be an indicator that other things on it will be in poor condition and that you'll spend a lot of time fixing it. Are you able to look at other tractors (not necessarily Kubotas) in the same price range, and just get a feel for whether that's the condition you can afford, or whether that one is in unusually poor condition? I don't know your market, but here in NZ the things you mention I think would be red flags.

I was thinking the same thing, about abuse a neglect. It is a good idea, I will go check out some more.

The same seller also had a B1502, which was less worn, had no leaks. Also it had the three poin hitch and extra hydraulic "take out".
BUT it made a grinding sound when driving, like a really bad bearing. And it does not come with a tiller. Also I like the b7001 more

I dont really need the tiller that much, but I was considering converting it to a flail mower by replaceing the tiller blades with flails. So I could do both jobs with the same implement. But that might not be possible. The thing is, that the tillers come with the tractors and without it it is not much cheaper, but cheap a flail mower is about 800-1000e.

PaulL · Apr 11, 2019

Did the B7001 not have a 3 pt hitch? How would you connect the tiller or mower without a 3 pt hitch?

Rear hydraulic remote is useful, but only if you have a hydraulic implement to drive, and it doesn't sound to me like you would - particularly in that size range (most small implements have manual adjustments, not hydraulic ones - so things like a top and tilt probably aren't things you'd be getting).

Depending on what's broken in the B1502, it may actually be less broken than the B7001. Of course, we all know that bigger is better, so it's hard to buy a smaller tractor when there's a larger one available.

vauxhall · Apr 11, 2019

Peeter,

being from Europe too and owning a B1502DT for a couple of weeks I may help you with some questions. Feel free to contact me if you like. Parts are somewhat available at least in Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands.

Concerning the tiller without a 3PH ... afaik Kubota had a line of tillers tailor made for their own domestic 2PH.

Tom

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