L3800 dt. 50 hr. service

North Idaho Wolfman said:

By this analogy are you saying that a heavier filter is better????

So a Studebaker is better than a Ferrari???

Weight of an item has no real bearing on the quality...Wait I take that back the weight of gold is higher the purer it is.

Click to expand...

You are missing the point - AGAIN, what I am saying is if the aftermarket filter was built to the same specs as the oem Kubota, not have a heavier or lighter case.

I never mentioned color... ???

But I will add this on the case construction, if you ever have a filter stick on, and rip the case apart getting it off, you will appreciate the thicker, and stronger case.

The point is this also - people say aftermarket filters are "just the same but cheaper than oem" and if that was the case, why are they built different? Absolutely, black and white they cannot be the same if they are built different.

Why pray tell do none of the aftermarket filters have a magnet when the Kubota oem filter has one (on those Kubota filters so equipped) if they are al the same? WHY has NO one answered or even addressed this point, no instead you guys all want to worry about the filter case thickness..... Common, give me a break, I pointed out the case differences because I figured that was some thing that could be observed without a filter disassembly.....

Again, answer me that one question, why no magnet if they are the equivalent or in other words, the same?

David

BotaDriver said:

Saying that a thicker element equates to a better filter is about as arbitrary as saying red apples taste better because they're red. Facts are are things like filtering efficiency. Ill stick with facts like that. If you want to factor color and size or thickness into your equation of worth, thats up to you.

You're also basing information from things you've seen many years in the past.

Click to expand...

Again, you are evidently NOT reading my entire posts or you have a problem understanding what I am trying to point out?

I mentioned filter capacity, total filter media square inches and micron filtering size as well as many other different internal ways to make a filter.

Why not address that? Can't can you? Nope, just the case. which was something simple I pointed out because it does not take disassembly of a filter to check. In fact, anyone with the ability to sense weight can feel that in the store, and guess what, that means that all of these filters that are built by the same company do vary as to the particular spec of that production run.

To recap - IF AFTERMARKET FILTERS WERE THE EQUIVELENT/SAME AS OEM, JUST CHEAPER PRICED THEY WOULD BE IDENTICAL IN ALL OTHER RESPECTS. savvy? Clean enough? Do I need to keep repeating this?

But please answer me this one question, one that you have been ignoring. Why, if the aftermarket filters are the same or equivalent to a oem is there not a magnet in them like the oem filters? WHY?

David

Filter comparison from 2011

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html

Still think all filters are the same?

David

Filter comparison from 2008

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1662838

Just one uneducated look at the internals on these four filters makes for a stark and dramatic difference in internal make up

David

Yet another fillter comparison - NAPA fleetguard WIX

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter-comparisons.html

How many do you guys want. Or are my points proved?

Use what you want, but you can't argue with cold hard facts.

I am not trying to be a jerk here, just understand that I have made my living in the mechanical field, I am a master tech four times over, with a minor in heavy trucking and computers, Yes, I have taken and passed the Microsoft systems engineer test, but my heart is not into making either trucking or computers a full time career.

But I am NOT above learning something new everyday, and I do, but filter construction debates are a dead issue, The facts are in and very stark.

David

Kubota oil filters do not have a magnet on them. The trans filter does, but the oil filter did not. However, a magnet is a very easily added item. (https://www.google.com/#q=oil+filter+magnet&tbm=shop)

As to the filtering medium; some oil filters need thicker medium because the medium is not a good quality. I chose the filter I did because it has a 99% efficiency rating. It also has a duty rating that exceeds anything remotely close to what it will ever see on the tractor. Those are FACTS, as in proven, and re-proven with every single batch of filter that is made. The assembly of the filter is watched by machines that spot variations that the human eye can miss. They are manufactured by a company that makes 4 out of 5 filters provided by OEM. Regardless of what an OEM may request in regards to specifications for X Y Z, there are minimum standards that the company produces. I personally am more picky than many OEMs by choosing to use a filter that filters extremely well. In-fact, most OEM filters fail to filter 3-5x the amount of particulate that TG series does.

Honestly there isn't an argument here. When arbitrary variables are brought in against lab proven results, there is nothing really else to say. If you're satisfied with what ever you run, and for whatever reason, by all means keep on keep'n on. I will continue to run the Tough Guard oil filters until I have a reason not to. I've yet to see a better filter for 3 times the price. If tomorrow they started making it using a type of polymer for the case and the lab showed equal or better results, I would keep on using it.

While I don't have an education related to engineering filters, I do have enough sense to know that no matter how many videos appear on youtube with rednecks cutting filters open to "show" someone how much better one is over another, I know it's moot. I don't care if he had 100 mechanics sitting their giving their opinion on what their looking at, it still boils down to an opinion, a rather uneducated one at that.

After-all, steel is heavier than Aluminum, Titanium, Magnesium, and Carbon Fiber, so it must be superior than all of them, right? I'm not sure how air travel is as safe as it is since steel has all but been eliminated in new aircraft.

Re: Filter comparison from 2008

dmanlyr said:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1662838

Just one uneducated look at the internals on these four filters makes for a stark and dramatic difference in internal make up

David

Click to expand...

That's typical of the internet; There are mostly uneducated opinions out there.....MOSTLY

There is nothing the average person/shop/mechanic/garage can do to an oil filter to gauge its quality. There are a lot of dumb opinions based on weight, filter surface area, and a lot of other variables that are nonsense. Can you gauge the quality of a tire by kicking it?

These guys have a better chance of gauging the quality of a filter by seeing how well it matches the decor of their home than they do poking/prodding/sniffing/tasting it.

This all started with a point being made about the Kubota oem trans filter having a magnet, it has morphed into a general filter comparison.

Where are going to find a magnet for a aftermarket filter? One that won't move, shift or block the oil passages? At least one poster reported that he tried to use the oem magnet in his "will fit" filter and it did not fit.

I cannot imagine that many have the proper circular magnet laying around, and I have yet to see a supply of various sizes at the hardware store, let alone the auto parts store.

If you follow the filter comparison links provided, you will see that not all are "redneck" comparisons. In fact some are downright close to or are, lab grade.

As to any filter 99% efficient, well what micron are you filtering to? 01, 10, 35 or more? Certainly a particular filter can be close to 100% efficient for the micron it is designed for....

Link explain micron size -

http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org/Councils/Filter-Manufacturers-Council/TSBs-2/English/89-5R3.pdf

Example, take a filter designed to 15 micron specs. Well that means that it might be close to 100% at its design point, but will pass 100% of everything smaller than that, so it would be 0% inefficient at 10 micron levels.

So what micron spec is your oem Kubota filter spec'd to? Can you even find that level of information at our level on anything other than possibly fuel filters?

And so there is the quandary, how to you take your 99% efficient aftermarket filter (but at what micron filtering size, do you know?) it really could be a 0% efficient filter if it is set for the wrong micron size and compare it apples to apples to a oem Kubota spec'd filter without a significant lab test expense which would more than out way the few dollars save over a oem filter?

Easy answer, and the one that is the most logical is just buy the oem filter. That way you know that you have the proper filtering that Kubota engineers were concerned with. Easy peasy and done.

Besides, what are you really saving over 1000 hours of tractor operation going aftermarket, $3 a filter, $5 a filter? In the case of a oil filter, where you might change it every 100 to 200 hours, that is about a $15 to $50 savings in all. Is it even worth it to not know or guess that a filter is doing its job, especially on a new machine that cost 15, 20, 30, or 40K ?

What is that, like one tank of fuel?

David

Re: Filter comparison from 2008

BotaDriver said:

That's typical of the internet; There are mostly uneducated opinions out there.....MOSTLY

There is nothing the average person/shop/mechanic/garage can do to an oil filter to gauge its quality. There are a lot of dumb opinions based on weight, filter surface area, and a lot of other variables that are nonsense. Can you gauge the quality of a tire by kicking it?

These guys have a better chance of gauging the quality of a filter by seeing how well it matches the decor of their home than they do poking/prodding/sniffing/tasting it.

Click to expand...

I threw that on in there just to see if you would fixate on that one. No comments about the first? I can't really blame you, you are looking for any straw to back up your opinion, but truth is, and lab test prove it, there are differences.

As to your opinion that the amount of filter media makes no difference - WRONG. A filter is designed for a certain life span as well, if the media is insufficient to hold particles over that projected life span and plugs up, or IE does not still have enough "voids" (at a certain micron size that is) left over to have flow, the relief valve will open and you will have unfiltered oil being provided to the engine.

As to the average person not being able to judge differences by disassembly, um ya sorry to say WRONG AGAIN. The average lay person, while not being able to determine micron filtering size, certainly can see led filtration media, paper end caps verses metal etc.

Huh?

Really this has been fun, but I think the point has been made per verifiable and absolute repeatable proof and perhaps we should move onto another topic?

David

Re: Filter comparison from 2008

dmanlyr said:

The average lay person, while not being able to determine micron filtering size, certainly can see led filtration media, paper end caps verses metal etc.

Click to expand...

So you would say that a paper filter with metal end caps is better than a paper filter with paper end caps? 99% of the internet geniuses would say yes. Every single one of them would be wrong. Do you know why? Probably not.

Ignorance is bliss; the internet is full of happy people.

Blue is my favorite color, so using the 99%ers rationale, I should buy ford filters right? Maybe I can make the TG filters better by painting them blue? Am I on the right track? I bet I could get 100% filter efficiency if I put a flow master sticker on it. Maybe I'll have my niece use a bedazzler and put some rhinestones and plastic gems on it so I can get 105% efficiency. You've got me on a mission......I'll be making youtube videos with my new found filtering secrets in no time.

Re: Filter comparison from 2008

BotaDriver said:

So you would say that a paper filter with metal end caps is better than a paper filter with paper end caps? 99% of the internet geniuses would say yes. Every single one of them would be wrong. Do you know why? Probably not.

Ignorance is bliss; the internet is full of happy people.

Blue is my favorite color, so using the 99%ers rationale, I should buy ford filters right? Maybe I can make the TG filters better by painting them blue? Am I on the right track? I bet I could get 100% filter efficiency if I put a flow master sticker on it. Maybe I'll have my niece use a bedazzler and put some rhinestones and plastic gems on it so I can get 105% efficiency. You've got me on a mission......I'll be making youtube videos with my new found filtering secrets in no time.

Click to expand...

You said it best, ignorance is bliss. By the way genius, Ford Motorcraft filters are not blue, but white, although they did have that silver line out for a bit. AC Delco filters are blue..... But blue is my favorite color as well so we certainly can agree on that.

But nice try on the filter colors... it was worth a shot on your part none the less.

Again, Believe what you want, just don't confuse opinion with fact. Still I find it interesting to have the discussion. A bit fun really. Taken for what it is, quite a bit of information has been passed around. And isn't that what we all are really here for?

Given that, don't you think that it is time to end this discussion between us? I mean if you have added any new facts or even addressed (or added any factual retort to) the majority of the facts that I have posted I could see a point, but it seems that you want to go off on tangents that really have no bearing on the points at hand, and I certainly do not want to cause you any angst.

Perhaps we can agree to disagree.

David

Re: Filter comparison from 2008

Malaysia Air uses after market filters and look what happened to them.

The Edsel & Titanic too.

Just be smart and use Kubota filters and oil . I mean really its not like the used different filters and oil for testing and design . The motors and tractors where designed to use there oil and filters .

Enjoyed reading all this info.. However, I feel it its more important to change you oil and filters often as when you keep clean filters and oil in your rig it will last longer than you will. It's when you don't take care of your stuff, i.e. extending service intervals because you think you bought the right color filter or use the super expensive oil, is when the damage is done. Timely service is more important and I don't remember seeing that in this discussion.

I know this is an old post, but I'm a new member, so I'm reading my way backward thru the forum to learn all I can learn (both good and bad) about which Kubota tractor I should buy when I move.

Anyway, almost 40 years ago I went to an automotive machine shop that just built race engines. I went to the drags frequently and saw a car that was built by the owners of this shop ( a husband and wife team) that ran in the super stock class. The husband and wife work in and own the shop, both build the engines but just the wife drives. Remember Miss Jane from the Beverly Hillbillies? Picture someone that could be her sister driving a super stock car at the drags every weekend and winning most races.

Anyway, through a friend that also raced and had multiple engines built by them I was introduced to the husband and wife team and eventually had them do the machine work on my engine. I was a street racer.

When I went to pick the engine up I was given a list of things to do. How to clean the block and bores, clearances, oil recommendation, engine oil supplement recommendation and the like. Their filter recommendation???

Lee

I honestly forget the Lee filter number, it was for a V8 Chevy, long filter. LF25 or LF29 seems to ring a bell. Anyhoo, yes, Lee filters. That is what the man ran in his car and I took his recommendation. I had been a Fram/Purolator/Wix person at the time. When I asked why he used the Lee filters he said they filtered the oil and were less restrictive than major brands. Lack of oil flow, even a small restriction, is a death sentence when you're turning 8,000 to 9,000 rpm.

I beat that motor half to death. The motor was refreshed every year and I put 30K on it before I sold the car. Every time the motor was torn down the crankshaft, camshaft, lifters and bores were all smooth and scratch free and well within size specifications. This car wasn't used to go to and from work or to buy groceries. For the most part, if it was running, it was being raced and being beaten. The Lee filters did their job and never failed.

I don't believe that Lee filters are still in business. Even in the seventies when I used them they were the "economy" filters that all other oil filter manufacturers looked down on. Fram and other major brands sold for two to three times what a Lee filter sold for.

Filters have come a long way in 40 years.

Bought a 1978 Diesel rabbit new. Ran Kmart oil filters and Castrol GTX 10W40 engine oil in it (CC-CD rated, still in cardboard cans) for the next ten years and almost 300K miles. Replaced many vacuum pump diaphragms, one radiator, rebuilt one alternator and replaced front and rear brake hoses. The rest was usual items, such as brake pads and shoes. Still ran like a top when I sold it in 1989.

buckaroo52 said:

My L3800 dt. will need it's 50 hr. service soon, wondering what brand engine oil is best to use ? My climate can range from 10 degrees in winter to rare 95~100 degree days in summer. Average range is 25~80 degrees or so. Also, should I be alarmed enough if a considerable amount of metal is found on the magnetic ring on the transmission filter to change the transmission fluid as well ? Your thoughts on UDT fluid vs. UDT 2 synthetic, and what brand filters ? Thanks !

Click to expand...

Buckaroo2,

Stick with OEM stuff all the way, especially while under warranty. You're close to dealers there in Molalla/Gresham, PDX, even Hillsboro.

You can save a buck or two and it can cost you a lot more than that.

Take your time and do the entire tractor fluids. You'll learn a lot about your machine that way. Then go to the buckaroo.

Burt

When it comes to the oil filter, use recommendations from the thread. On the 3800 (possibly 3200) The longer oil filter serves to protect the fuel bulb located directly behind it. Also the additional filter media area allows for a longer run time between changes if you so desire. Diesels are dirty so I'd stick to the factory change intervals.

For filters that contain magnetic rings and whatnot, use factory. These magnets will continue to collect the metal that ends up in the system. If you eventually add a 3rd function if you don't already have one, and choose to use the occasional rented equipment, that magnet becomes even more important.

Just about every OEM has a 3rd party manufacture their filters. A lot have been found to be the cheapest fram (orange can o death). I stick with the fram tough guard filter due to its larger size and filter efficiency rating which I prefer for a diesel. Over 400 tach hours on the machine and no broken fuel bulbs. Fram being stocked at walmart makes it one of the top selling brands in the US. A lot of personal opinions out there -- most rated in 'feel good', which as we all know, is worthless. The oil pressure warning light seems to turn off in about half the time with the fram tg8a installed vs the factory filter on cold starts.

Just got my box of Kubota filters today that I ordered off Feebay. The L3800 HST filter change kit.
I'll have to check the manuel to see what it says about changing the tranny fluid at how many hours ?
I'm going to use Rotella oil like last April when I changed it.