Hydraulic Issue?

quazz · Apr 19, 2014

I have a LA 524 FEL on my new L3800. I have been using the FEL loader a lot moving snow but today wanted to put on pallet forks.
I had a big problem getting them on and just assumed the new pallet forks were off a bit in their measurements. I got them on and when I finished I took them off and tried to put the bucket back on. It would not go on.

The problem is that the part that the bucket cylinder and the bucket attaches to is at a different angle on the left boom vs the right.

The left doesn't roll back completely to the stop while the right one does.

When rolled down to put on the bucket the two bucket attachment parts are out of line to the point it won't go on. The angle is different.

With no bucket on the left side rolls noticeably quicker.

I was able to muscle the pallet forks back on but there is no way the loader is going back on.

Any ideas?

Bulldog · Apr 19, 2014

Quick attach will solve all your troubles. I love mine and don't see how I ever made it without it.

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 19, 2014

Are you talking about the roll cylinders won't line up at the same time?
That's a simple fix, just put the pin in one that lines up and any resistance on that one will make the other one move.

quazz · Apr 19, 2014

Here are a few pictures after we wrestled and fought to get the pallet forks on. I got one pin in and then twisted and forced the other end enough to put in the pin.
With the bucket there is no twisting it. It is not going on. The right side is under the lip and the other side is about 6 inches below.

quazz · Apr 19, 2014

It looks OK in the pictures but that is because we rolled back as far as possible as this is when the differing angle between the two sides is the smallest and then manhandled it on.

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 19, 2014

All right we need to back up...
That's a SSQA adapter, you should be able to pull up to an implement roll forward put the lip under the it roll back and lift and then pull the 2 levers and pins should drop right in. Easy Peasy!

If,(as it looks and sounds to me), that the right side is not engaging at the same time as the left side there is a problem, like a bent or miss-welded adapter.
Take a picture looking side ways at the adapter without it on an implement, I'm betting it's bent or miss-welded and they are out of alignment thus giving you problems.

quazz · Apr 19, 2014

North Idaho Wolfman said:
All right we need to back up...
That's a SSQA adapter, you should be able to pull up to an implement roll forward put the lip under the it roll back and lift and then pull the 2 levers and pins should drop right in. Easy Peasy!

If,(as it looks and sounds to me), that the right side is not engaging at the same time as the left side there is a problem, like a bent or miss-welded adapter.
Take a picture looking side ways at the adapter without it on an implement, I'm betting it's bent or miss-welded and they are out of alignment thus giving you problems.

First off, I really appreciate you taking the time to help.

Yes it is a SSQA adapter. And yes the two sides are not engaging at the same time.
I looked and it nothing seems bent. I really don't want to take off that implement. I need it tomorrow and it was a huge effort to get it on.

But what that picture would show is that the left side adapter is on a different angle than the right by 15 degrees (ballpark guess). So when I drive up to the implement the right side adapter is higher on the implement than the left.
If I get the right side under the lip the left side is 6 inches below the lip. At that angle it is pushing the implement out farther than the other side.

Now that I have the implement on everything looks fine.

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 19, 2014

Heck yea, if it's that big of a pain wait till you have free time then when you pull it off take a picture, it does sound like it's out of alignment.
With this style it's the tube that runs from side to side that get twisted, and it's ever so slight.
Yes if the latch plates are not parallel it makes it a real pain in the back side to hook up!

quazz · Apr 19, 2014

North Idaho Wolfman said:
Heck yea, if it's that big of a pain wait till you have free time then when you pull it off take a picture, it does sound like it's out of alignment.
With this style it's the tube that runs from side to side that get twisted, and it's ever so slight.
Yes if the latch plates are not parallel it makes it a real pain in the back side to hook up!

When the implement was off and I rolled back one side goes noticeably faster and rolls further down and not quite all the way back to the stops.

Could it be a hydraulic issue?

Bulldog · Apr 19, 2014

It really shouldn't be a hyd issue. The round rod / pipe that runs from side to side should make them work together. I would check it close to make sure you don't have a broke weld. Mine is a Kubota QA but the link between the side are the same on both. It doesn't matter if I have a implement on or not both sides work together.

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 19, 2014

I'll second what Bulldog said.

Probably not a hydraulic issue, just a bent, broken or miss-welded side to side connecting tube.

kuboman · Apr 19, 2014

My bet is the rod that joins the 2 sides of your qa was welded on wrong. One thing to try is to disconnect the 2 tilt cylinders at the qa and then cycle them out and in to see if they will match up. If they don't then you have a bent cylinder rod. Otherwise it has to be the joining rod on the qa.

Tx Jim · Apr 20, 2014

I agree with Bulldog & Wolfman on a timing rod problem on SSQA. Check to be sure a timing rod pin isn't sheared or bent.

quazz · Apr 20, 2014

Thanks guys.

Here are a few pics. I only disengaged one side because it is so hard to get on.
As you can see there is a gap on the bottom and to engage the pin I get my son to stand on the end of the fork to twist it enough for me to engage. If one side and the top were not already engaged the gap would be larger.
There is no getting a bucket on there.

So I left the forks on and was moving brush that i cut and then stated ditching. Then came another problem but that is a subject for its own thread.

Bulldog · Apr 20, 2014

Just by looking at the pics it makes me think the QA it twisted or bent just a little.

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 20, 2014

Yep tweeked!
Here is how to fix it right now.
With nothing on it (no bucket or forks)
Put a block of wood (4x4) between the loader arm and the pivot point of the side that the pin does lock in easy and then slightly roll the loader back, stopping after a little bit each time to check alignment and make sure you don't over do it.

BotaDriver · Apr 20, 2014

had a similar issue, just drove up to a fixed object and used the tilt function to press the side that was sticking out further into the object while the other side basically was allowed to twist the torque tube back into alignment. Pretty simple, was aligned within the 3rd try. Just sight down the top of one of the plates to ensure they're back to parallel.

quazz · Apr 21, 2014

You guys were right not surprisingly.
The dealership sent over a mechanic and he said that the QA is bent and must have been made wrong. They are bringing a new one for me.

As for the other issue with the backhoe hose coming unscrewed he said that the hose looks like it was rubbing on the draw bar and after swinging back and forth a bunch of times it may have worked itself loose. It wasn't tightened enough in the first place but we took the draw bar off anyway.

BotaDriver · Apr 21, 2014

quazz said:
You guys were right not surprisingly.
The dealership sent over a mechanic and he said that the QA is bent and must have been made wrong. They are bringing a new one for me.

As for the other issue with the backhoe hose coming unscrewed he said that the hose looks like it was rubbing on the draw bar and after swinging back and forth a bunch of times it may have worked itself loose. It wasn't tightened enough in the first place but we took the draw bar off anyway.

Should have just fixed as I stated. It will happen again, especially since it looks like your forks do not properly seat onto the SSQA plate. Mine from the factory were ever so slightly out of alignment, then one of my fork sides came of the SSQA adapter and made it about 15 degrees out of alignment. I then bent them back into alignment perfectly, now it's easier than it was before to get the bucket on and off.

Once you have the bucket on, you can tilt it down and put the cutting edge firmly into the ground and lift the front end slightly off the ground and then gently rock the machine back and forth using the tilt/dump to ensure that it is firmly secured. Pay attention to how far the locking pins are into the bucket pre and post. You can also drive the machine to a firm object such as a large tree and push on it with the cutting edge to ensure your pins are firmly locked into the bucket.

Also, you will notice 2 zerk fittings on the locking pin sliding area. Make sure to keep those greased.

After you grease the FEL, make sure to wipe off any grease that comes out of the fittings. If you leave the grease there, eventually you will come across some type of brush that will take the grease and smear it down the side of the machine. It can make a mess!

quazz · Apr 21, 2014

Thanks but the reason I didn't do this is because it is still under warranty and if I can get a replacement then why not?
The mechanic said the QA was defective.

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