Regen for L 3901

69 SS · Mar 5, 2019

Hello all , 9th Regen today at 219.3 hrs. Max RPM for .3 hrs. For light to quit flashing. Written in my Log book that I record every time "Big Orange " is operated. Got new EA 55" Grapple installed November 9 at 207.1 hrs. It has rained nearly every weekend,all time record breaking rain in SC. Keep using
"Big Orange" to drive 1/2 mile long driveway to go to mailbox and back. And supposed to rain this weekend ! Rant over. Good luck to all on your projects

lugbolt · Mar 7, 2019

regeneration is part of ownership of new tractor that is 25hp+. There are plenty of threads about it. It works fine as long as the user understands how to use the tractor "around" the regeneration cycle. The days of just using the tractor without maintenance and/or regen cycles are mostly over. If you don't want a regen you have to step way down in horsepower to the L2501, and honestly it's underpowered for most-but it still sells VERY well.

troverman · Mar 11, 2019

lugbolt said:
...The days of just using the tractor without maintenance and/or regen cycles are mostly over....

Well, you could always tune and delete to end the regens...

The tractor regen process is pretty painless, no worse than a modern diesel truck...

ItBmine · Mar 11, 2019

You don't want to own my modern diesel truck, LOL.

$17,000 this month for a new Detroit Diesel One-Box and wire harness.

That's why I make due with small Kubota and antique tractors. Dealing with emissions on my big trucks sickens me.

It is good to see though that Kubota has very few problems with theirs. But still just not something I want in my personal non-revenue earning side of life.

SidecarFlip · Mar 11, 2019

ItBmine said:
You don't want to own my modern diesel truck, LOL.

$17,000 this month for a new Detroit Diesel One-Box and wire harness.

That's why I make due with small Kubota and antique tractors. Dealing with emissions on my big trucks sickens me.

It is good to see though that Kubota has very few problems with theirs. But still just not something I want in my personal non-revenue earning side of life.

Ah yes, the old one-box ala DDEC. I made a bundle least year refitting reman one-boxes for DDEC. Like the particulate filters, they don't wear out, what happens is the bungs fail. DDEC provides new bungs and I remove the failed ones and TIG the new ones in. Easy job for 100 bucks a box. They pay the freight too.

People that aren't familiar with Tier 4 final heavy duty diesel engines really have no idea of the complexity and failure rates associated with them and it's 90% emissions related. Only thing I remember that wasn't was the ceramic fuel pump follower rollers in the Cummins ISXC engines that failed and took out the main bearings.

I won't have a Tier 4 final tractor on my farm just because of that.

I may do them again this year. Nice 'hobby'.

ItBmine · Mar 11, 2019

Ya SidecarFlip....I didn't even realize the One Box could fail. I had just changed the filters or catalysts (whatever you call them)in it last year. They were $1600 and I thought this is awesome because the Cummins ISX 600 we have was $6800.

But then when I started having regen and derate issues again this winter they said the One-Box needed to be replaced.

I'm doing the worst possible job right now for these engines.....idling along all day and night beside the big snow blower, then hauling that light load of snow short distances.

I'm not familiar with what fails in them, so we just put a new one on it. 14 grand Canadian with the labor.
And a week before that had to replace the main wire harnes to the SCR system because over the last couple years of issues someone at the dealer kept poking it with a test light and it rotted. That was a couple grand.

SidecarFlip · Mar 11, 2019

I feel your pain. Harnesses are a big issue no matter what make the truck is and remember they all share the same emissions components... Even Kubota.

The particulate filters can be cleaned but the machine costs 50 grand and the residue is hazardous waste so all the dealers just change them out and send the cores to the respective engine builders to get rebuilt. It's a racket.

The one boxes don't fail (unless the truck gets hit on the passangers side). What fails is the weldments and again, most diesel shops lack the equipment to fix them. Detroit Diesel provides me with all the fittings to repair them. I'll probably get back into doing them again this year (I had to quit because of my cancer issues). I fell into it by accident. The guy I hunt with is the service manager for the local Freightliner / Western Star delaership that I retired from and he asked me if I was interested and I was because the rework is real simple. Once in a while I have to weld an internal baffle but usually it's the sensor bungs.

Not knowing what brand of trucks you have but living in a salt enviroment in the winter, I'd pull all the Molex connectors apart that you can get to and put di-electric grease in them all. Modern harnesses aren't anything like the ones of old. Insulation is thin and so are the wires. Good technicinans don't probe wires today, they use a multimeter. Tell the service manager to take his 12 volt light away from him, he's costing customers a ton of money. You compromise the insulation and it's a time bomb. Salt gets in there corrodes the wires, causes high resistance and the motor derates. Everything today is done with resistance values.

My friend also owns 40 tractors, all Tier 4 final Freightliners leased to Fed-Ex with team drivers and his average monthly service bill is 45 grand a month. He makes money but spends money too. That is routine maintenance, not breakdown money.

Don't want anything to do with them. I sit back and listen and smile.

Was always a company driver, always drove extended hood double bunk Stars with Cats of the 3406 variety. They smoked, just like my Kubota's smoke. If it don't smoke, I don't want it.

SidecarFlip · Mar 11, 2019

One thing that sort of bothers me about the Kubota system is the particulate filter. Sure, you regen it and burn off the accumulated carbon but, like the particulate filters in the big trucks, at some point the filter will fill with burned up carbon particles and will have to be replaced and what is the replacement cost?

Don't think any local dealer has the cleaning machine, least none would for the cost.

Anyone know? Curious about that aspect. They all have a finite life.

SidecarFlip · Mar 11, 2019

Answered my own question with a Goggle Search that took me to TBYN.

Messicks says 400-500 bucks to clean the filter and it should (should but maybe not) last 200 regens.

Interestingly, that is about he average cost to do a Class 8 particulate filter as well. Interesting, quite a thread on it over there....

So, 200 regens and 500 bucks. Pretty steep maintenance on say a BX.

Not for this guy.

Fido Farms · Mar 11, 2019

Well 200 regens gives u somewhere like 2-3000 hrs..or more. u really consider that an expense? Wow. Buy a smaller tractor that ur sorry for because it ain***8217;t got the power u really would like? Or buy a mahindra. See how that works. In time when warranty is off you***8217;ll be able to delete it or keep driving it as normal. Don***8217;t understand all this emission whining. It***8217;s here to stay for now so either run with it or buy an old tractor. I don***8217;t see a problem really. Happy kubota driving.

North Idaho Wolfman · Mar 11, 2019

SidecarFlip said:
So, 200 regens and 500 bucks. Pretty steep maintenance on say a BX.

Sidecarflip, That was a pretty stupid point you made, BX's don't have particulate filters and they don't regen!

dlundblad · Mar 12, 2019

SidecarFlip said:
Ah yes, the old one-box ala DDEC. I made a bundle least year refitting reman one-boxes for DDEC. Like the particulate filters, they don't wear out, what happens is the bungs fail. DDEC provides new bungs and I remove the failed ones and TIG the new ones in. Easy job for 100 bucks a box. They pay the freight too.

People that aren't familiar with Tier 4 final heavy duty diesel engines really have no idea of the complexity and failure rates associated with them and it's 90% emissions related. Only thing I remember that wasn't was the ceramic fuel pump follower rollers in the Cummins ISXC engines that failed and took out the main bearings.

I won't have a Tier 4 final tractor on my farm just because of that.

I may do them again this year. Nice 'hobby'.

Werent you recently considering something with emissions to replace one of your tier 3 tractors?

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40206

troverman · Mar 12, 2019

I've not dealt with the heavy truck emission systems, however I'm pretty knowledgeable on diesel pickup emissions systems, particular the Ford 6.7L diesel. They all are fairly similar.

I understand all the possible issues you can encounter, but on the pickups anyway, there aren't a ton of issues being had. Yes, if all you do is idle your truck or drive it around the city, you will have problems with the DPF getting clogged. On Fords, fleet trucks have the option for "operator commanded regen" just like we can do with our Kubotas. There is free software which can enable this same feature on consumer trucks, too. Our DPW trucks are not getting much highway driving, but lots of idling and slow driving. So they need to perform OCR every so often. We had a couple of cracked DPFs too, but these were at pretty high hours.

I don't think people have much to complain about with the Kubotas. Only the highest horsepower class tractors use DEF; most of what we are experiencing is a simple DPF. The emissions system on a diesel vehicle on the road is far more complex. Why are people opposed to a DPF? It's nice not smelling diesel exhaust all day running an open station machine. The regens are pretty painless. If people bought a DPF equipped tractor that they only run at low speeds occasionally to do small work on their property, maybe they don't need a tractor at all.

SidecarFlip · Mar 12, 2019

North Idaho Wolfman said:
Sidecarflip, That was a pretty stupid point you made, BX's don't have particulate filters and they don't regen!

Whatever, I don't know what has them and what don't. I do know the MX series does however. Conversely, at some point in the future I suspect they all will if the regs keep getting more stringent.

SidecarFlip · Mar 12, 2019

dlundblad said:
Werent you recently considering something with emissions to replace one of your tier 3 tractors?

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40206

I was but I'd prefer the green one down the road if it comes up on auction. If I happened to buy a DPF equipped tractor, when the warranty expired, it would be removed, much like a cat converter. Ain't no sniffing exhaust pipes out here anyway. Far as smelling diesel exhaust, I like the smell of diesel exhaust myself. Hillbilly Incense.

SidecarFlip · Mar 12, 2019

Obvious to me why the little tractors are so popular. People aren't stupid. Less emissions hardware equals less complexity and lower overall cost down the road.

troverman · Mar 12, 2019

SidecarFlip said:
Whatever, I don't know what has them and what don't. I do know the MX series does however. Conversely, at some point in the future I suspect they all will if the regs keep getting more stringent.

The MX is an expensive tractor. I just bought one last year, with a loader. $30k with just a couple of options. A $500 maintenance years down the road is no big deal. Heck, it cost me $500 to replace all the fluid and filter on my 2002 Kubota GST tractor two years ago. Tractors are simply not cheap. My MX regens every 30-35 hours. If you get 200 regens out of a DPF, my math says at least 6,000 hours before a swap out is needed. That's a long time.

SidecarFlip said:
I was but I'd prefer the green one down the road if it comes up on auction. If I happened to buy a DPF equipped tractor, when the warranty expired, it would be removed, much like a cat converter. Ain't no sniffing exhaust pipes out here anyway. Far as smelling diesel exhaust, I like the smell of diesel exhaust myself. Hillbilly Incense.

You can't just "remove" the DPF from a tractor so-equipped. For one thing, the tractor is completely run by an ECU. Removing the DPF would cause the engine to derate since it wouldn't have feedback from EGT and delta pressure sensors in the DPF. Furthermore, the tractor would likely attempt to regenerate anyway, which is controlled by a very late power stroke / beginning of exhaust stroke extra fuel injection...which would burn up in your modified exhaust system and cause other problems. You would need a tuner to tell the Kubota ECU to operate in "off-road" mode and ignore the emissions system. I'm not aware of any tuners for Kubota engine software. Kubota may not also have a "military" off road mode like pickup truck engines do.

SidecarFlip said:
Obvious to me why the little tractors are so popular. People aren't stupid. Less emissions hardware equals less complexity and lower overall cost down the road.

People buy the little tractors because they are cheaper, not because people are so worried about emissions.

SidecarFlip · Mar 12, 2019

30k is chump change to what I paid fr the M9 and the 105 new. Try close to 100 grand for both, each with loaders, 3 sets of remotes, 3rd function, creep gears and dual speed PTO's with cabs as well. The 105 powershift was off the lot but I special ordered the M9 direct from Kubota. Bought the last one they built and waited 4 months fr it.

Of course they are / were a depreciable business expense that are fully depreciated and have been but I keep upgrading implements like round balers and mowers and depreciate them. Keeps the farm running in the red, just where it needs to be. Always dance on that fine line of making money (taxable) and not. Takes a good accountant and equipment replacement.

I might trade in my NH net/ twine round baler this year for a new Kubota round baler, only hay tool Kubota sells that I actually like. Maybe a new disc mower too. That would be a NH Mow Max. Don't like the mounted disc mowers Kubota offers. Things to ponder and I do need to replace all the knives on the NH disc bine I now own which is a side swing. I'd prefer a center point next time, easier to deal with when mowing irregular shaped fields. No need to swing around on the headlands, just flip the mower hydraulically. Only piece of equipment I own (besides the tractors) that is older is my Miller Pro rake. It's 15 years old and runs like new. Probably upgrade that at some point as well but with another Miller Pro. Last fall I bought a new Land Pride 96" rear chopper that replaced the JD chopper bought years ago. I like new equipment and new equipment has less issues. Almost bought a bat wing chopper but I don't use a chopper that much so the 96" RM series works.

I'd not hesitate about getting newer tractors either, except for the Tier 4 final mandate. I'll keep what I have. Might be getting a bit long in the tooth but again, I don't want the hassle and I like the smell of diesel exhaust anyway.. and the smoke. You see, I was brought up under the idea that if there is no smoke, there is no fire and no fire is no power. I'll stick with that thank you.

Far as little tractors go, they have no place here. Only 'little' machine I own is a 60" zero turn lawnmower.

D2Cat · Mar 12, 2019

Flip, do your homework before you buy. Here's a link to help. https://www.farmprogress.com/equipment/kubota-makes-claim-full-line-hay-supplier-latest-launches

Kubota bought Kverneland who makes their own hay equipment and owns the Vicon and IM Farming brands.

troverman · Mar 12, 2019

SidecarFlip said:
30k is chump change to what I paid fr the M9 and the 105 new. Try close to 100 grand for both, each with loaders, 3 sets of remotes, 3rd function, creep gears and dual speed PTO's with cabs as well. The 105 powershift was off the lot but I special ordered the M9 direct from Kubota. Bought the last one they built and waited 4 months fr it.

Of course they are / were a depreciable business expense that are fully depreciated and have been but I keep upgrading implements like round balers and mowers and depreciate them. Keeps the farm running in the red, just where it needs to be. Always dance on that fine line of making money (taxable) and not. Takes a good accountant and equipment replacement.

I might trade in my NH net/ twine round baler this year for a new Kubota round baler, only hay tool Kubota sells that I actually like. Maybe a new disc mower too. That would be a NH Mow Max. Don't like the mounted disc mowers Kubota offers. Things to ponder and I do need to replace all the knives on the NH disc bine I now own which is a side swing. I'd prefer a center point next time, easier to deal with when mowing irregular shaped fields. No need to swing around on the headlands, just flip the mower hydraulically. Only piece of equipment I own (besides the tractors) that is older is my Miller Pro rake. It's 15 years old and runs like new. Probably upgrade that at some point as well but with another Miller Pro. Last fall I bought a new Land Pride 96" rear chopper that replaced the JD chopper bought years ago. I like new equipment and new equipment has less issues. Almost bought a bat wing chopper but I don't use a chopper that much so the 96" RM series works.

I'd not hesitate about getting newer tractors either, except for the Tier 4 final mandate. I'll keep what I have. Might be getting a bit long in the tooth but again, I don't want the hassle and I like the smell of diesel exhaust anyway.. and the smoke. You see, I was brought up under the idea that if there is no smoke, there is no fire and no fire is no power. I'll stick with that thank you.

Far as little tractors go, they have no place here. Only 'little' machine I own is a 60" zero turn lawnmower.

You confuse me a bit - you won't buy a new Tier 4 tractor because of potential emissions costs down the road, but you have a couple of $100k tractors, etc? Besides, even if the biggest tractor Kubota makes needs a DPF replaced, or DEF injector replaced, or a new wiring harness...that's just "chump change" to you anyway, and helps you to avoid paying taxes. So why would you care?

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