CO2 in cab..

Old fart

New member

Equipment
BX2380
Mar 10, 2019
53
0
0
Elk, Wa.
Took delivery of my new BX2380 today and am loving getting used to it. I got it with a Curtis cab because of anticipation of winter snow blowing duties. I’m a bit concerned about a build up of fumes in the cab. While playing with it today, I noticed a build up of fumes even with the front and rear windows opened as much as allowed. Thoughts?
 

rjcorazza

Member

Equipment
L4060 HSTC Loader, ZD326, ZD1211
Mar 9, 2016
778
22
18
Hyattstown, MD
Diesel fumes and CO are concerning in general, but magnified in enclosed spaces (as you are aware, just stating the obvious).
Perhaps redirecting the exhaust, and/or sealing up the cab would be a good start. You could also call your local Fire Dept and set up an appointment for them to come out with a CO monitor to get some readings. Regardless of the CO, diesel exhaust is a known carcinogen.


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Old fart

New member

Equipment
BX2380
Mar 10, 2019
53
0
0
Elk, Wa.
Yes, I’m going to get a detector and go from there. If need be I might install a fan to try and get some positive air pressure....
 

torch

Well-known member

Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
2,583
831
113
Muskoka, Ont.
There is a significant difference between CO2 (carbon Dioxide) and CO (carbon Monoxide). While CO2 in sufficient quantities can displace oxygen in an enclosed space, it's not really considered immediately harmful to humans otherwise. So don't discharge your CO2 extinguisher inside an enclosed cab.

CO, on the other hand, is poisonous when measured in parts per million and explosive when measured in percentages. It has a high affinity for the hemoglobin in your blood, preventing oxygen from reaching your brain, heart and other tissues. It is colourless and odourless but is a by-produce of any fuel-burning device, so if you smell exhaust then you are inhaling CO too. Symptoms are "flu like": headache, nausea, dizziness, drowsiness and confusion. Followed by weakness, sleepiness and death.

The harm caused by CO is based on the time and exposure level. 9ppm or less is not a concern. 10 and over is considered unacceptable in the home, where people often spend more than 8 hours inside (especially at night) and children or pregnant women may be present.

In a work environment, a level of 25ppm is usually considered acceptable to a maximum of 8 hours but that quickly ramps to the point where 100ppm is considered immediately dangerous. For a healthy adult of working age: Limits for the elderly, pregnant women and children are half that. Long term exposure to low levels can be a serious risk for those with heart disease, angina, clogged arteries, etc..

Inexpensive battery-powered CO alarms intended for installation in the home will not alarm below 30ppm. They must alarm in 60 to 240 minutes at 70ppm, 10 to 50 minutes at 150ppm and 4 to 15 minutes at 400ppm.

When new.

They use cheap electro-chemical sensors the become desensitized when exposed to low levels of CO over a long period of time. In other words, they may not work if they are constantly subjected to low levels over time. It is recommended that they NOT be installed near sources of occasional puffs of CO, like stoves, furnaces and engines for that reason.

I strongly suggest that you should not rely on a household CO alarm to protect you inside the cab of your tractor.
 

Old fart

New member

Equipment
BX2380
Mar 10, 2019
53
0
0
Elk, Wa.
There is a significant difference between CO2 (carbon Dioxide) and CO (carbon Monoxide). While CO2 in sufficient quantities can displace oxygen in an enclosed space, it's not really considered immediately harmful to humans otherwise. So don't discharge your CO2 extinguisher inside an enclosed cab.

CO, on the other hand, is poisonous when measured in parts per million and explosive when measured in percentages. It has a high affinity for the hemoglobin in your blood, preventing oxygen from reaching your brain, heart and other tissues. It is colourless and odourless but is a by-produce of any fuel-burning device, so if you smell exhaust then you are inhaling CO too. Symptoms are "flu like": headache, nausea, dizziness, drowsiness and confusion. Followed by weakness, sleepiness and death.

The harm caused by CO is based on the time and exposure level. 9ppm or less is not a concern. 10 and over is considered unacceptable in the home, where people often spend more than 8 hours inside (especially at night) and children or pregnant women may be present.

In a work environment, a level of 25ppm is usually considered acceptable to a maximum of 8 hours but that quickly ramps to the point where 100ppm is considered immediately dangerous. For a healthy adult of working age: Limits for the elderly, pregnant women and children are half that. Long term exposure to low levels can be a serious risk for those with heart disease, angina, clogged arteries, etc..

Inexpensive battery-powered CO alarms intended for installation in the home will not alarm below 30ppm. They must alarm in 60 to 240 minutes at 70ppm, 10 to 50 minutes at 150ppm and 4 to 15 minutes at 400ppm.

When new.

They use cheap electro-chemical sensors the become desensitized when exposed to low levels of CO over a long period of time. In other words, they may not work if they are constantly subjected to low levels over time. It is recommended that they NOT be installed near sources of occasional puffs of CO, like stoves, furnaces and engines for that reason.

I strongly suggest that you should not rely on a household CO alarm to protect you inside the cab of your tractor.
Thanks for all that! I’ll be looking for a monitor that will read out ppm, it probably won’t be cheap....
 

torch

Well-known member

Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
2,583
831
113
Muskoka, Ont.
Thanks for all that! I’ll be looking for a monitor that will read out ppm, it probably won’t be cheap....
There are household units that have a readout, but the accuracy is still only as good as the sensor. A portable/wearable unit with a commercial quality sensor starts at around $250, but still needs occasional calibration. We test the ones at work daily and recalibrate monthly against a lab-grade sample of bump gas.
 

William1

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX25D
Jul 28, 2015
1,080
263
83
Richmond, Virginia
I'd be surprised if it was CO. More likely it is the tractor out gassing from being heated up. Paint on the exhaust, engine block, trans. All are stinky when first heated a few times. It will subside in time. If it were exhaust, you would have to have some sort of leak
 

Old fart

New member

Equipment
BX2380
Mar 10, 2019
53
0
0
Elk, Wa.
Both front and rear windows were open. The side windows don’t open, but can just lift out of the hinges for summer use. That’s not going to be an option in the winter. It’s definitely CO, I felt nauseous, dizzy with a sore throat after about a half hour today. Same, but to a lesser extent yesterday. I’ll be talking to the dealer tomorrow.
 

mikester

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Equipment
M59 TLB
Oct 21, 2017
3,127
1,609
113
Canada
www.divergentstuff.ca
Sorry to hear you are having problems on your new cab and tractor.

Id suggest going back to the dealer and say fix the defect or take the cab off and give me my money back. You shouldnt be stuck with what Id consider a major problem...consider your health first. Diesel fumes arent good for you.

Out of curiosity do you have a smokestack or under slung muffler?
 

Old fart

New member

Equipment
BX2380
Mar 10, 2019
53
0
0
Elk, Wa.
Sorry to hear you are having problems on your new cab and tractor.

Id suggest going back to the dealer and say fix the defect or take the cab off and give me my money back. You shouldnt be stuck with what Id consider a major problem...consider your health first. Diesel fumes arent good for you.

Out of curiosity do you have a smokestack or under slung muffler?
Yes, I’m not going to operate it further until this is resolved. The exhaust is 100% stock and exits out the front. The cab was actually my choice, as I didn’t want to pay the price for the Kubota cab. The dealer purchased and installed this cab for me, which was my choice, so not 100% on the dealer. There is no visible evidence of any manifold leak, but I will start it cold in the morning to see if any smoke is visible. Otherwise, just love the tractor so far, but it would be nice to be able to use it.....
 

Poohbear

Active member

Equipment
L3301 HST, LA525, LP shredder, BB1566 box blade, QH10, Worksaver pallet fork
Jul 6, 2018
469
132
43
Gilmer,Tx,United States
Look at a Toxcin at Sportys.com or Aeromedix. I use the Toxin while flying . If you have CO on a brand new cab, something is wrong,IMHO
 

Old fart

New member

Equipment
BX2380
Mar 10, 2019
53
0
0
Elk, Wa.
Part of the installation of this heated cab involved putting a vinyl covering over the air intake. It’s basically just there to hold the heat in during winter operation. It’s attached via Velcro for removal during the summer. I removed it yesterday and things got much better, although not completely fume free. My CO tester will arrive Monday and I will get readings under several different scenarios, then go have a face to face discussion with the dealer. The dealer has not returned my call yet. I talked to the cab manufacturer yesterday and got the standard narrative that all their cabs are tested and for me to take it up with the dealer......
 

Orange1forme

Active member

Equipment
B2650 HSDC, filled tires, wheel spacers, B2728B , LA534A FEL, 3rd valve kit
Dec 1, 2018
394
56
28
Wa
My CO tester will arrive Monday and I will get readings under several different scenarios, .
For information purposes:

PLEASE read and understand the CO detector instructions and understand what levels of CO must be detected before it will display/alarm.

A UL listed CO detector is almost worthless!!!!! They usually must see a high level of CO for a continuous period before they will alarm/display. The level needed is almost at the point of incapacitation.

UL ratings were raised to these levels due to complaints of too many activations. Activations that were justified, but considered nuisances by homeowners.

While CO detectors are mandatory in new construction, retrofit HVAC installs and code updates in renovations, relying on them solely can cost lives!!!!
 

JeffL

Member

Equipment
B7200E, B4200DT
Jan 8, 2016
344
6
18
North Central Ar.
Don't be surprised if your CO detector does not indicate unsafe levels of CO. Diesels produce very little CO. Mostly CO2, like kerosene heaters. CO is so low heaters are safe to use indoors. However, both produce CO2 which displaces the oxygen. Low levels of oxygen have the similar effect to the body. Plus the diesel particulate in the exhaust will run you out of an enclosed structure long before the CO will. Jeff
 

Old fart

New member

Equipment
BX2380
Mar 10, 2019
53
0
0
Elk, Wa.
I'd be surprised if it was CO. More likely it is the tractor out gassing from being heated up. Paint on the exhaust, engine block, trans. All are stinky when first heated a few times. It will subside in time. If it were exhaust, you would have to have some sort of leak
I think you’re on to something. I got the CO tester (not a household detector) and ran the tractor around for a half an hour. It never registered anything more than 1 ppm of CO in the cab. Thinking that the thing was faulty, I then placed it it in the shop close to my gas engined ATV and started it. After 3 minutes it went into a stage 2 alarm at over 200 ppm. OK, it works. I’ve learned a lot since first posting this. I then focused on the diesel fumes, as they can produce all the same symptoms that I was experiencing. After working with both the dealer and cab manufacturer without any conclusions, I started to look within the cab itself. As much as I have always loved that new vehicle smell, there’s some pretty nasty stuff that produces it. All that fresh paint, cleaning solvent, silicone adhesive for weather stripping and so on add up to a pretty potent chemical cocktail that is also capable of producing the symptoms. I’ve been carefully playing with it the last few days and noticed things getting a bit better. Yesterday I worked with it for over three hours without anywhere near the reactions I was getting the first few days. Things are getting better and if the problem was diesel fumes or CO, they wouldn’t be. Thanks for all the help and suggestions from you guys.....
 

skeets

Well-known member

Equipment
BX 2360 /B2601
Oct 2, 2009
14,094
2,756
113
SW Pa
I am some what confused here. As I understand the exhaust for the BX is in front of the tractor. I cant seem to wrap my head around how you are getting diesel fumes in the cab. The fan blows away from the cab toward the motor in to the engine compartment. However I was wondering if what you are experiencing might be hydro oil fumes as the cab sit directly over the rear end and spilled oil,,,, could give off fumes or vapor smell when hot ,,,, Please when you figure out where the smell is coming from let us know I am very interested
 

Old fart

New member

Equipment
BX2380
Mar 10, 2019
53
0
0
Elk, Wa.
Maybe I didn’t explain well enough in my last post. It’s seeming to me that the problem lies in all the new chemicals used in the making/installation of the cab, not diesel fumes or CO. As those odors are disappearing, so are my symptoms.