B7200HST Will not start

Tim Kosmacek

New member

Equipment
B7200HST
Feb 19, 2019
22
0
0
Persia, IA USA
Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

The fact that this happened suddenly leads one to believe it's got to be an air or fuel issue.

Where did you get the injectors from?
Did you get and install new sealing washers too?

Have you pulled and checked the air cleaner?

Have you checked that the glow plugs are working?

I would bottle feed the injection pump from above it and see what it does.

Pull the injection pump lines off, set the throttle to high, crank, and see if you get a 6" plus fountain of fuel out of them.

These motors never get out of time, it's timed with gears and shims under the Injection pump.

Without a very fancy pressure setup there is no way to test the fuel pressures.
Now testing compression on the engine is easy but in this case unneeded, compression does not just disappear or goes bad overnight.
I purchased the injectors from Kumar Bro USA, yes I received the copper rings with them. I am was getting good fuel through the injectors. I have now installed a new started thinking I wasn't getting enough RPM's for it to fire. It did help and the tractor fired and ran for about 10 seconds. I am now losing prime on the number one injector. Do you think the injection pump could have gone bad. No 2 and 3 injectors are keeping prime. If i glow it and re-bleed the no 1 injector it will fire and run for just a few seconds.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

I purchased the injectors from Kumar Bro USA, yes I received the copper rings with them. I am was getting good fuel through the injectors. I have now installed a new started thinking I wasn't getting enough RPM's for it to fire. It did help and the tractor fired and ran for about 10 seconds. I am now losing prime on the number one injector. Do you think the injection pump could have gone bad. No 2 and 3 injectors are keeping prime. If i glow it and re-bleed the no 1 injector it will fire and run for just a few seconds.
You could have damaged the pump but that is very rare.
It should also still run on 2 cylinders and not die.
Do you still have the original injectors?
 

Tim Kosmacek

New member

Equipment
B7200HST
Feb 19, 2019
22
0
0
Persia, IA USA
Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

You could have damaged the pump but that is very rare.
It should also still run on 2 cylinders and not die.
Do you still have the original injectors?
After posting to you this last time I went back out and it fired up and ran for 20-30 seconds and then started to go into high rpm's. I did not have any throttle control and the fuel shut off did not kill the engine. I had to smother it at the intake to get it to shut down. It was very black smoke that was coming out of the exhaust. I do have the original injectors.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

After posting to you this last time I went back out and it fired up and ran for 20-30 seconds and then started to go into high rpm's. I did not have any throttle control and the fuel shut off did not kill the engine. I had to smother it at the intake to get it to shut down. It was very black smoke that was coming out of the exhaust. I do have the original injectors.
I'm going to give you a 98% likely hood that the injectors are bad.
Put the original injectors back in it. ;)
 

AllDodge

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M9540 RTV1100
Jan 19, 2019
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Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

Check your throttle control linkage to see if it is actually moving
 

Tim Kosmacek

New member

Equipment
B7200HST
Feb 19, 2019
22
0
0
Persia, IA USA
Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

Check your throttle control linkage to see if it is actually moving
Both the throttle and cut off linkages are moving. They just did not seem to do anything when moving them while it was running. I have now also noticed I am getting fuel into my oil pan. I drained two quarts out and it is over full again.
 

85Hokie

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Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

Both the throttle and cut off linkages are moving. They just did not seem to do anything when moving them while it was running. I have now also noticed I am getting fuel into my oil pan. I drained two quarts out and it is over full again.
Houston ....we have a problem!:(

that is gonna mean a tear down and rebuild!

Sounds as if compression is gone - pumping fuel by the rings....(if those rings are still there) into the crankcase.
 

AllDodge

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M9540 RTV1100
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Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

Both the throttle and cut off linkages are moving. They just did not seem to do anything when moving them while it was running. I have now also noticed I am getting fuel into my oil pan. I drained two quarts out and it is over full again.
In most cases this is caused by the injection pump seal.
 

Tim Kosmacek

New member

Equipment
B7200HST
Feb 19, 2019
22
0
0
Persia, IA USA
Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

Houston ....we have a problem!:(

that is gonna mean a tear down and rebuild!

Sounds as if compression is gone - pumping fuel by the rings....(if those rings are still there) into the crankcase.
I seems to still have compression just based on the how it cranks over. Guess I am looking for better news!:)

Thanks for your help!
 

85Hokie

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Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

I seems to still have compression just based on the how it cranks over. Guess I am looking for better news!:)

Thanks for your help!
I hope dodge is right.....a lot easier fix!!!!;)
 

D2Cat

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Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

Tim, I doubt you have a loss of compression. You stated."It was running fine fueled it up and parked it overnight. Would not start next day." Engines don't loose compression overnight.

You stated in post #8 there was a nice spray pattern from the injectors. Then you stated you replaced the injectors with new ones from Kumar. My experience with Kumar injectors has not been good. I bought some from them for a V2203 engine and it was a circus changing them out again because they were worse then what I had taken out. I switched injectors from one position to another with no difference. Finally, I gave up and bout injectors from Kubota or Oregon Fuel Injection Service, I don't remember.

If you need injection pump service, injectors, or anything to do with diesel IP's these folks are very good. They're quick to respond, good service, very reasonable prices, good quality. As an example, I needed an IP for an L305 tractor. The sent me a new pump, 3 days to my door for $326 about 3 years ago. Kubota didn't have one, wanted the order prepaid, cost $1100.

https://oregonfuelinjection.com/

Are you sure it's diesel in the oil?
 

Tim Kosmacek

New member

Equipment
B7200HST
Feb 19, 2019
22
0
0
Persia, IA USA
Re: B7200HST Will not start Getting Fuel, Glow Pulgs are working, Has compression, Id

Tim, I doubt you have a loss of compression. You stated."It was running fine fueled it up and parked it overnight. Would not start next day." Engines don't loose compression overnight.

You stated in post #8 there was a nice spray pattern from the injectors. Then you stated you replaced the injectors with new ones from Kumar. My experience with Kumar injectors has not been good. I bought some from them for a V2203 engine and it was a circus changing them out again because they were worse then what I had taken out. I switched injectors from one position to another with no difference. Finally, I gave up and bout injectors from Kubota or Oregon Fuel Injection Service, I don't remember.

If you need injection pump service, injectors, or anything to do with diesel IP's these folks are very good. They're quick to respond, good service, very reasonable prices, good quality. As an example, I needed an IP for an L305 tractor. The sent me a new pump, 3 days to my door for $326 about 3 years ago. Kubota didn't have one, wanted the order prepaid, cost $1100.

https://oregonfuelinjection.com/

Are you sure it's diesel in the oil?
Thanks. I don't know for sure it is fuel, just not sure what else it would be getting in there. I will try the original injectors again. Can't hurt to try. Thanks again.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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You need to stop and take a deep breath, throwing a bunch of parts at it, isn't necessarily going to fix it, yea you could get lucky but it's costly.

Start from the beginning.

Your original most likely issue with it was contamination in the fuel, be it water, gasoline, or just plain old junk.
Or it could have been that the glow plug circuit took a dive.

Knowing those two points.

Check glow plugs, first remove the connecting wires and then OHM each one out, 2 to 8 Ohms is about right, if it infinite or 0 OHM's then you have a dead glow plug.

Then if they OHM out fine, reconnect the wires and use either a test light or a meter and check for power on Key switch Glow and on crank, should have power to the plugs on both key positions.

Next Drain all fuel, do not put any fuel back in it yet.
Remove both the fuel inlet to the Injection pump and output lines.
Bootle feed the Injection Pump from above the engine, set throttle to high, crank in short intervals to first burp air, then look for about ~ 6" fountains from all three Injection outputs, if any are really lacking then pump needs rebuilt.
If that is good then leave bottle suspended for a couple of hours, note fuel level in bottle, also note oil level, a couple hours later check level if no real change then pump is fine, if fuel level has dropped significantly then pump needs rebuilt.

Report back on what you find! ;)

Here is some likely possible causes to why everything has spiraled out of control.

As far as run away and loss of control:

Bad replacement injectors, (non sealing injectors can cause runaway and hard starts).
Installing the fuel return fittings on backwards, (does not allow excess fuel to be bled off, thus causing over pressure and over fueling)
Fuel contamination, (wrong fuel or fuel contaminated with gasoline, even very small amount can cause odd running or over running conditions)
Damaged injection pump, (But very unlikely to cause runaway of the engine, because you never removed it (misalined linkage.)

If you are really getting fuel in the oil, there is only three paths:

Bad injection pump, (Above test will show that, but very rare).
Bad fuel lift pump, ((will test next phase) might also explain original no start condition).
Flooding injectors, (this does sound plausible considering your run away engine)
 
Last edited:

CapnDean

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If you are making oil - then the most likely issue is a failed seal where the injection pump meets the engine. Gravity feeding (Bottle feeding) will identify this problem right away. The fuel level in the "bottle" will go down gradually as the fuel leaks into the crankcase.

The other way to get oil & fuel together is a stuck injector.

If I were you, I would change my engine oil, and then perform the gravity feed. If I did not leak fuel into the crankcase overnight, I would re-install the old injectors and proceed as if I had air in the lines somewhere.
 

Russell King

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If that is good then leave bottle suspended for a couple of hours, note fuel level in bottle, also not oil level, a couple hours later check level if no real change then pump is fine, if fuel level has dropped significantly then pump need rebuilt.

In NIW’s post above there was a slight typographical error that could cause confusion.

Change “...bottle, also NOT oil level, ...” to “... bottle, also NOTE oil level, ...”

Probably already understood but clearer now


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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In NIW***8217;s post above there was a slight typographical error that could cause confusion.

Change ***8220;...bottle, also NOT oil level, ...***8221; to ***8220;... bottle, also NOTE oil level, ...***8221;

Probably already understood but clearer now


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks I fixed the original post to note that. :D
 
Last edited:

Tim Kosmacek

New member

Equipment
B7200HST
Feb 19, 2019
22
0
0
Persia, IA USA
Thanks I fixed the original post to note that. :D
Good news bad news. Ok I have changed the oil. I have done the bottle test with no drainage with it sitting for a week. It doesn't appear to be making oil. I put the old injectors back in. I can get it to start and run now but it is still a run away motor. If I control the airflow with my hand over the intake it will stay running without "running away". I doesn't seem to have any throttle control. It is blowing very black to grey smoke. So to recap what all I have done to date. Started with new fuel lift pump, new injectors from Kumar (now have originals back in), new starter, new fuel filter. The linkage to the throttle is moving up to the pump. I have not taken anything at the pump off to see if things are moving internally. What are your thoughts? Bad injector or bad injector pump?
Thanks for the advise.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
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Sandpoint, ID
The rack in the injection pump is stuck.

Pull the engine stop linkage and plate off the side and you will be able to see the rack pin.

Take the cover off and take a picture of what you see.

 

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