L2850 GST- clutch/transmission issues

Snyda88 · May 28, 2017

I was using the tractor earlier today and went to shift from 4th to 5th gear and the clutch was very slow to grab. When it did it wouldn't hold when going up a slight incline. However, when put in reverse it had no issue when in 5th gear or higher.

My real question is how do I determine whether I have a wet clutch or a dry clutch. From what I read, the gst's have both a mechanical clutch and hydraulic clutch. I'm trying to determine whether I'm in it for the less expensive fix of the mechanical clutch or the more expensive fix of the hydro clutch.

Of course I could be completely off course and haven't read enough.

Tractor has over 2300 hours on and from what I know the clutch has already been replaced, but I do not know what the hour count was on the previous clutch when it was replaced and I've only put about 40 hours on it since I took possession of it back in March.

As always thank you in advance for the help and guidance!

North Idaho Wolfman · May 29, 2017

The issue sounds more like a dry clutch issue.

To confirm this, if you have a PTO powered implement like a tiller or mower, when it slips so will the PTO if it's a dry clutch issue.

Just as a note: Check your fluid levels as that can effect shift points.

Snyda88 · May 29, 2017

so I'm no longer leaning towards a clutch problem. Since all I have for an implement is the backhoe I was going to try and lift the wheels completely off the ground with the stabilizers and FEL bucket only to find the FEL didn't have the a** to lift the front wheels off the ground. Given that the it's a GST and does rely on the hydraulic pump to some degree I'm thinking it's either a clogged filter(s) (which were replaced within the last 15 hours of use with an OEM) or the pump itself.

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North Idaho Wolfman · May 29, 2017

It's highly unlikely it's the hydraulic pump as that model has 2 pump sections, one to run the loader / three point and one to run the GST and steering, so unless your steering is completly dead that pump is still working.

Some of your thinking sounds like it could be in line, look for a suction leak,
look to the suction pipe for leaks, and yes possibly the filters, because air in the system will cause all sorts of odd things to happen.

Suction leaks differ in the fact they are hard to find, look at fittings and pipes for seeping leaks.

Snyda88 · May 29, 2017

So I managed to get the tractor lifted completely off the ground (used the FEL first then raised the rear with the backhoe stabilizers) one thing I noticed is the left rear wheel will not engage in any gear even trying to use the dif lock and further more it will not free wheel). I readjusted the left brake linkage and it allowed it to free wheel and when lifted it would spin when in gear. I dropped it back on the wheels and did a little test and put it 5th gear on a slight incline and it took about 20 seconds to grab, but when it did it seemed ok so I'm thinking I'm back to the clutch.

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North Idaho Wolfman · May 29, 2017

If it's sucking air then it will effect the shift points and patterns.

If your having a constant delay in any high range (5th-8th), you could have more complected issue than just a bad clutch, as a bad hydraulic clutch would exhibit issues in high and low range.

Snyda88 · May 29, 2017

Yeah, I was concerned that it could be the hydraulic clutch because that looks far more costly and involved than the mechanical clutch.

I just took off the backhoe in preparation for the inevitable split and once I dropped the backhoe in the driveway it didn't seem to have any trouble going into 5th and 6th gear.

To add insult to injury the alternator decided it had had enough and bit the dust so it's tethered to my jump box for the time being.

I appreciate all your help, since this isn't my machine nor have I been the one responsible for the rough life this thing has had I'll let it sit a while and talk to the owner and see what he wants to do.

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Snyda88 · May 29, 2017

Found this thread on another forum which points back to the mechanical clutch.

Very similar symptoms

https://tractorpoint.com/cgi-bin/tractorreview/pda_msgByThread.pl?parentnum=151968

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Snyda88 · May 31, 2017

So I went ahead and detached the FEL this afternoon and in moving the tractor around I keyed in a pretty nasty screech coming from the clutch housing. Again, leading me more towards the mechanical clutch.

That said what should I replace besides the clutch, thrust bearing, pilot bearing and possibly pressure plate?

The owner has requested that I price out the parts required to take this on and then he's going decide if he wants to sink the money into it.

In his words," Use it til she dies!", but I'm not that kind of person to return something that's broken, regardless of whether it happened under my watch or not.

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D2Cat · May 31, 2017

If he doesn't want to repair it to usable condition, ask him what he wants for it as it is. Then when you fix it, it is yours. Note, a broken older tractor does not bring much money in any kind of sale.

Snyda88 · May 31, 2017

That's gonna be my angle. At 2300+ hours it doesn't owe him anything. The thing sat for about 6 years and when I went to borrow it the battery was toast and it was sitting on the rims. He used to use it for his pool business presumably to dig pools in the early 90's before he became a pool maintenance company only.

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North Idaho Wolfman · May 31, 2017

Yes if you do it, replace the clutch disk, pressure plate, thrust bearing, and pilot bearing.

Snyda88 · May 31, 2017

Thanks again Wolfman, I started prepping to split it this evening. Just gotta drain the trans and disconnect some hydro lines and get her properly blocked and she's ready to pull. I want to get a look at things inside so I only have to make one order from messicks.

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D2Cat · May 31, 2017

Be sure to put some blocking on each side of the engine down on the tractor frame rails. Usually take a piece of 1"x2" a couple of inches long tucked in there. Or else the engine will flop to one side or the other when it gets unbolted.

andmel · Jun 1, 2017

If, for whatever reason you choose not to repair it, and the tractor gets parted out, I would be interested in the FEL. Hard to find one for L2850s and new aftermarkets (Woods, etc) are pricey.

Snyda88 · Jun 1, 2017

So I got the tractor split and got the clutch apart not as bad as I thought (or hoped). The clutch specs call for 0.3mm from the face to the rivet and I'm at 0.96mm so the clutch isn't great but it's also not shot.

Throw out bearing doesn't look bad either. What has me partially confused is that the WSM shows a twin plate clutch for the L2850 but I just pulled a single plate clutch out and the parts manual on Kubota's website also call out a single plate clutch if ircc. So there's that...

But Wolfman being the far more experienced individual suggested that the hydraulic clutch might be the culprit rather than the dry clutch. Guess I'll crack the side plate on the tranny tomorrow and see what I can find.

If that's the case this just went up from a $500 repair to $1k if the hydraulic clutch pack is toast too.

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North Idaho Wolfman · Jun 1, 2017

GST's only have single disk clutches, because you can stop the tractor without pushing in on the clutch with the shuttle lever thus leaving the PTO running at speed.

I'm sorry there is a few of you with these same clutch shift issues, but if your's is the one with the delay in engaging the shifts, then yes it's most likely a hydraulic clutch issue.
You're not going to be able to see anything pulling the side plate, you'll need to split the transmission from the rear end and then the mid case in order to get the clutch pack out to inspect the disks and the seals.

Snyda88 · Jun 2, 2017

Wolfman- is it worth replacing just the disks and seals or should I go for the whole clutch assembly including the hub, bearings, springs etc. we're talking 500 bones for the disks and seals where as 750 gets the whole assembly.

At this point I'm going to wind up dropping the transmission completely out of the tractor since it's still attached to the back half and I need to pull the hydro clutch from the rear of the transmission.

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D2Cat · Jun 2, 2017

Snyda88, I'm curious, have you made a deal to purchase from the owner yet or are you doing this for experience?

Snyda88 · Jun 2, 2017

At this point I'm not in a position to buy the tractor and honestly this machine is bigger than I need for my 1.2 acres. I'm also not in dire need of a tractor. Up to this point I've been renting a skidsteer as needed from a local equipment rental company that we use through work for somewhat discounted rates.

I've probably invested about $500 of my own money into this machine between replacing failed hydraulic hoses on the backhoe and rebuilding a cylinder along with new fluids, filters and a battery.

Given that he hasn't needed his machine for the past 6 years and hasn't maintained it in the past 10 years any money he puts into it is probably more for my benefit rather than his.

I did offer the idea of fixing it and then selling it (not specifically to me) if he no longer needs it. Because like you said a tractor that doesn't work is worth far less than one that does.

While on Craigslist last week I found the same tractor with a FEL and a woods backhoe for $9700. I'm not prepared to shell out $5k even.

I'll just keep renting equipment if he decides to send this kubota on down the road. Because at the end of the day for all the time I've used the kubota I've spent 25% of that time fixing something.

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L2850 GST- clutch/transmission issues

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