B2650 RPMs during start up, operation, and shutdown

Clover13 · Nov 2, 2018

Sorry for the beginner/elementary question, but part of the instruction manual confused me.

I was looking at the startup and shutdown procedures for the B2650, and also the 50 hour break in notes and had a question.

The startup procedure says to start the tractor with the throttle lever set to "half way" and never talks about idling it until you actually go to shut it down and turn the tractor off. Am I missing something, or is that correct? The warmup information doesn't show anything about adjusting to idle after startup or anything like that, so I'm assuming you leave it warming up at half throttle and effectively never really run it under that? When or why do you ever idle then other than to shut down? Would you really ever want to even run it under halfway? I have seen some run lower rpms for finesse type work to have slower/smaller movements in the FEL, etc.

Now, going into the 50 hour break in period, it simply says not to run it maxed out, so assuming never 2500 rpm.

Now for some math, I believe idle is around 1000 rpms and max is 2500 rpms, so "halfway" is 1750 rpms? And by that, operate only between 1750 rpms and under 2500 for the first 50 hours? And only go to idle to shutdown the tractor and turn it off?

Reading on here and elsewhere, most don't seem too concerned with the break in period. The main issues most seem to worry about is running TOO LOW of rpms and bogging down the engine versus running HIGH rpms (which diesels are meant to do).

Sodark · Nov 2, 2018

I have no answers, but am hopeful to hear some. Mine is only at about 40 hours so far.

eipo · Nov 3, 2018

I wouldn't ever recommend starting a cold engine above anything but idle unless its required to actually get it going. And then its back down to whatever minimum RPM the engine needs to stay running.

My 2650 never has an issue starting at idle and Ive never intentionally started it above idle, even when it was new. I think warm idle is right around 1100 rpm...

I would agree what you shouldn't run it wide open for the first few hours, but you do need to seat the rings. Dont lug the engine, but you need to work it to seat the rings.

My normal RPM setting is 2200 to 2300 rpm, no matter what I'm doing. I rarely run wide open unless im in high range and trying to get somewhere, or I'm doing a lot of continuous back and forth loader work, and then I try to stay around 2500 rpm.

rjcorazza · Nov 3, 2018

All of the Kubotas I have had the manuals said something similar... 1/2 throttle to start, warm up x minutes at y degrees at 1/2 throttle.

That said, I start mine at low idle to get the engine oil moving around for maybe a minute, then bump up the throttle to 50% to warm up.
For the break in period, opinions vary. I didn’t run my past 2 tractors hard, or at pto speed for the first 50h. I also frequently ran it through all 3 gear ranges (hst).

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mikester · Nov 3, 2018

Assuming cold engine, 1000-1200 rpm max at startup and warm up period. Minimum 1 minute warmup, base on engine temp. HST needs more warmup time than gear drive.

During operation Throttle according to operating load needs.

1000 rpm for at least a minute before shutdown to cool down. Longer may be needed if you have a turbo.

Warm up times depend on ambient temperatures. Larger machines may need more warmup and cool down times.

On new engines they recommend varying throttle levels regularly during break in.

dirtydeed · Nov 3, 2018

eipo said:
I wouldn't ever recommend starting a cold engine above anything but idle unless its required to actually get it going. And then its back down to whatever minimum RPM the engine needs to stay running.

My 2650 never has an issue starting at idle and Ive never intentionally started it above idle, even when it was new. I think warm idle is right around 1100 rpm...

I would agree what you shouldn't run it wide open for the first few hours, but you do need to seat the rings. Dont lug the engine, but you need to work it to seat the rings.

My normal RPM setting is 2200 to 2300 rpm, no matter what I'm doing. I rarely run wide open unless im in high range and trying to get somewhere, or I'm doing a lot of continuous back and forth loader work, and then I try to stay around 2500 rpm.

This is exactly what I do as well. Ran the last one the same way....had many, many hours on it and never an engine problem.

Enjoy your new machine.

Clover13 · Nov 3, 2018

Thanks all for the quick feedback!

Yeah it seemed odd to run it at half throttle to warm up, I always thought for pretty much all engines you want it to just idle to warm up. That just caught my eye as I was reading the manual to learn the process.

Lots of learning! Looking forward to putting some work in with the B2650! I'm guessing as long as I stick to warming it up (based on temp) and keeping it under 2500 (and likely above 1800) for any work I do, I should be OK for the break in period. I'll also be sure to run it in all the speeds each time I operate as well.

groomerbuck · Nov 3, 2018

This is just my personal opinion from experience, take it for what its worth. I would not over think the whole “break in” period. I would just make sure you let it warm up then let it eat. That whole half throttle stuff is silly to me. I grew up around race cars/bikes/sleds, and heavy equipment, and currently still am. There is virtually zero break in required for any of them. We just got a new d8 dozer a couple months back on rent, i did ask the dealer if they wanted me or expected me to run it in a particular manner for a “break in” time. He lol’d and said to ”run it like you stole it!”

RCW · Nov 3, 2018

eipo said:
I wouldn't ever recommend starting a cold engine above anything but idle unless its required to actually get it going. And then its back down to whatever minimum RPM the engine needs to stay running.

groomerbuck said:
...***8230;.I would not over think the whole ***8220;break in***8221; period. I would just make sure you let it warm up then let it eat.

Agree with both statements 100%.

Groomerbuck's analogy with the D8 not entirely. I would still be somewhat gentle early on.

Those engines are much different than a B-series Kubota. With that said, I didn't baby my BX a whole lot early on. But, like he said, half throttle is not doing the engine any good at all!

groomerbuck · Nov 3, 2018

RCW said:
Agree with both statements 100%.

Groomerbuck's analogy with the D8 not so much. I would still be somewhat gentle early on.

Those engines are much different than a B-series Kubota. With that said, I didn't baby my BX a whole lot early on. But, like he said, half throttle is not doing the engine any good at all!

Most newer big dozers only have two engine speeds. Idle or wot. So how in the world can you be easy on it?

Jchonline · Nov 3, 2018

M62 has similar statements in the manual. I just don't run it wide open during the first 50 hours....and let it warm up and down for a few minutes after I finish working it. I dont think I should have to do anything else....and based on the manual it won't void my warranty to do what I am doing...so I am fine with it.

RCW · Nov 3, 2018

RCW said:
Those engines are much different than a B-series Kubota.

groomerbuck said:
Most newer big dozers only have two engine speeds. Idle or wot. So how in the world can you be easy on it?

Wow - didn't realize they're that way.

Like I said, they're much different than a B series Kubota.

groomerbuck · Nov 3, 2018

RCW said:
Wow - didn't realize they're that way.

Like I said, they're much different than a B series Kubota.

More and more of the newer equipment(even small scale) are moving toward that. Its either idle or wot. And there is a reason for that. All motors especially diesels have a particular rpm range where they will be the most effective or efficient. And its not at 1/2throttle lol. Its at wot! So unless all these pieces of machinery are “broken in” at the factory,(which there not) its just another reason to lead me to believe that a “break in” period is an old wives tail! Bottom line is part will break period. Its just a matter of time.

Clover13 · Nov 3, 2018

Well I warmed her up today for about 10 min at idle (not 1/2 throttle) and put a couple hours in on her running around 2100-2200. Some FEL work, some grading, all went well...except when my phone fell out of the cup holder and I rode over it with the box blade!

Fortunately my screen protector did it's job, cannot believe it didn't get shattered. Case is wrecked but the phone miraculously survived! I'm headed to the store to buy a lottery ticket!

Oh, also let her idle down for 5 minutes or so before turning her off. Had a lot of fun, can't wait to get back on her tomorrow!

SidecarFlip · Nov 3, 2018

Naturally aspirated or turbo charged, I always idle my engines for a period of time on startup (depending on ambient temperature) and when I shut them down as well. Seems to work. Both my tractors are 2000 vintage and both run as good as when new.

Freeheeler · Nov 5, 2018

I start it at idle. Let it run for a minute or two, then run it between 1800 and 2300 while working. Once I hit 50 hours on her, I'll run at 2500 while doing hard work, but will still run less while doing lighter work. I do let her idle while I'm off the tractor for any length of time to save fuel, let her cool down a bit, and so it's not so loud. I always idle for about 3 minutes when I shut her down. I don't know if any of this is how it's supposed to be done, it's just what I do.

sheepfarmer · Nov 5, 2018

This is more of a question or speculation, but Kubota was unusually specific about setting the throttle at 1/2 for starting on the B2650, and equally specific on the L3560 eg start at idle and then increase to 1350rpm to warm up. So I have been wondering why. The 3560 engine smooths out at 1350 and sounds "better" to my ear so that's what I do. Both of these engines are meeting tier 4 emissions standards in their own ways. The 3560 is a common rail engine with dpf filter.

The b2650 is 3 cylinder indirect injection vertical water cooled engine. No dpf. The engine as far as I can tell differs only in the number of cylinders from its sib the b3350 which does have a dpf. They share the same wsm and owner's manuals. So I am wondering if the half throttle has something to do with how this engine was designed or redesigned as the case may be.

In practice on my sticky throttle, starting at a particular rpm other than down as far as it will go, is not possible. So when I put it away I throttle down to something a hair or 2 above dead idle, like 1200rpm, and shut it off there. It is easy to start and sounds fine. Not necessarily a great criterion, but it's all I've got

Addendum I broke down and looked in the manual, and the warm up at 50% of rated rpm is to warm up hydraulic oil at cold temps, 5 min above freezing and longer as it gets colder.

Freeheeler · Nov 5, 2018

yeah, warming up at half throttle to heat up the hydo fluid makes more sense. I keep mine in the mancave, all warm and toasty, so by the time I drive to where I'm working (couple hundred yards or so) everything seems to work smoothly.

hagrid · Nov 5, 2018

There is something to be said for modern materials science and automated manufacturing.

There's anecdotal evidence to support that every major manufacturer of engines and transmissions test every unit on a test stand. Chances are every unit is 90% run in after testing.

beckmurph · Nov 5, 2018

My B2650 stays in my unheated garage.

When I start it in cold weather, I do not move the throttle up before starting.
But, it will have a higher idle when it starts.
So, the manual states to set the idle manually, but the tractor is programmed to raise the idle.

My B3200 did the same.

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B2650 RPMs during start up, operation, and shutdown

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