Somewhat Disappointed With The FEL

winesalot · Oct 29, 2018

I've had my L4701 with the LA765 Front End Loader for around a year now. Over the last couple of weeks we have been extending our building lot into a small hillside by digging out the dirt with a Kubota 121-3 Mini Excavator and piling up the dirt for the tractor to move across the lot to the dump site. The tractor does fine pushing the loader in to the pile of dirt, which we have been careful not to make too high, but the loader lift and curl lack the power to pick up a full bucket. We are still getting the job done but the lifting power is disappointing. We are running the tractor at pto speed, in medium range , with the 4x4 engaged. Does anyone else experience this? Do I have a flaw N my machine or is this normal?

Sodark · Oct 29, 2018

How does it do in Low gear? Have you done the 50 hour service yet? I keep hearing stories of notably improved hydraulic function after changing out factory fluid... Any time I'm doing real loader work, it's in low gear & and 4x4.

North Idaho Wolfman · Oct 29, 2018

I think a lot of times it's all in the operations, if your taking too big of a bite right off the start it will have a hard time getting it up and curled back.
instead of taking it off the bottom try getting it a foot or so up and start to lift and curl when the blade starts to go into the pile.

Another problem could possibly be that the hydraulics are set too low and will need to be adjusted.

winesalot · Oct 30, 2018

It behaved the same in low or medium range. 50 hour service was done at 53 hours and I am approaching 100 hours now.

I was careful to make the piles wide and not high with the excavator so that the tractor didn't have to lift through a deep pile of dirt. Also, our dirt here is what I call moon dust. If it is damp and packed it can be very hard but unless you take steps to intentionally pack it it is, what I call, moon dust and is light and fluffy.

How do I make this adjustment you are referring to? It feels to me that I am not getting all the hydraulics should have to offer.

edritchey · Oct 30, 2018

You really only have about a 1350lb lifting capacity or so if the dirt is wet and compacts easy it will make it difficult to lift and curl if you go hard into the pile do like Wolfman said and see if it works better.

WFM · Oct 30, 2018

When I bought my tractor I went from a Bolens 16 hp to the L3800 and I thought I was gonna be able to scoop a car up off the ground with my giant tractor. But after I owned it a while and had steel delivered for my business I found I could lift and curl a weighed 1000 lbs of angle iron off the flat bed truck. I was very disappointed but have learned to live with it. I bought a tractor not a fork lift.
But here on OTT I had read that the hydrolic pump could be shimmed to give me extra lifting power. So when I took it to the dealer for the 50 hr check up. I asked the service manger about it. He knew what it was and said no problem they would do it. I forget exactly but it seems the shim(s) were like $6. or $16. bucks plus labor of the check up. But I honestly saw no noticeable difference. I still couldn't lift 'alot'.
I remember the service manger telling me the power comes from the rpm's , if I was putting around I'd have no power to lift. I had to rev the engine. And I do.

beaterboss · Oct 30, 2018

Thats odd. My 3901 will easily lift wet topsoil from a pile without any issues, and I have the larger bucket. Even with loaded rears and an 800 lb blower on the 3 point, it will lift the rear of the tractor off the ground before I run out of hydraulic power to the loader. (actually to the point of having to be careful not to roll the tractor) Something may be amiss with your hydraulic pressure. I had a Mahindra that acted the way yours is, and the dealer boosted the pressure. After that there was a noticeable difference in lift/curl power.

chim · Oct 30, 2018

I don't know how many pounds my loader will lift. but here'a a picture taken not long after getting the L3200. Tired are filled and there's a heavy mower on the 3PH.

Jchonline · Oct 30, 2018

Get hydraulic pressures on FEL valves checked.

mikester · Oct 30, 2018

winesalot said:
I've had my L4701 with the LA785 Fronte End Loader for around a year now. Over the last couple of weeks we have been extending our building lot into a small hillside by digging out the dirt with a Kubota 121-3 Mini Excevator and piling up the dirt for the tractor to move across the lot to the dump site. The tractor does fine pushing the loader in to the pile of dirt, which we have been careful not to make too high, but the loader lift and curl lack the power to pick up a full bucket. We are still getting the job done but the lifting power is disappointing. We are running the tractor at pto speed, in medium range , with the 4x4 engaged. Does anyone else experience this? Do I have a flaw N my machine or is this normal?

I think the flaw is in believing that SCUTS and CUTS can and should out-lift their class of machines. You are operating a 3,300lbs Compact "UTILITY" Tractor not a piece of construction equipment.

Remember these are AG class machines. More of a glorified wheel barrow and general purpose machine that can occasionally dig dirt from a loose pile. If you are expecting the same performance of a skidsteer or construction TLB you're using the wrong machine. Remember the saying "jack of all trades and master of none"?

Change your expectations or be prepared to be disappointed. And expect costly machine repairs, premature failure and downtime.

winesalot · Oct 30, 2018

mikester said:
I think the flaw is in believing that SCUTS and CUTS can and should out-lift their class of machines. You are operating a 3,300lbs Compact "UTILITY" Tractor not a piece of construction equipment.

Remember these are AG class machines. More of a glorified wheel barrow and general purpose machine that can occasionally dig dirt from a loose pile. If you are expecting the same performance of a skidsteer or construction TLB you're using the wrong machine. Remember the saying "jack of all trades and master of none"?

Change your expectations or be prepared to be disappointed. And expect costly machine repairs, premature failure and downtime.

I don't think it is unfair to expect the loader to lift a full bucket of loose dry dirt. I have operated the construction grade equipment you refer to and I fully understand the size and reasonable expectations for this size of tractor. In your statement you say it should be able to dig dirt from a loose pile and I agree which is why I am posting this because mine can't.

winesalot · Oct 30, 2018

beaterboss said:
Thats odd. My 3901 will easily lift wet topsoil from a pile without any issues, and I have the larger bucket. Even with loaded rears and an 800 lb blower on the 3 point, it will lift the rear of the tractor off the ground before I run out of hydraulic power to the loader. (actually to the point of having to be careful not to roll the tractor) Something may be amiss with your hydraulic pressure. I had a Mahindra that acted the way yours is, and the dealer boosted the pressure. After that there was a noticeable difference in lift/curl power.

I wish mine did this. I have filled rear tires and a fairly heavy concrete ballast on the three point so I certainly don't expect to lift the rear but I do think being able to lift and curl through loose dirt piled less than 3 feet deep is a reasonable expectation.

SidecarFlip · Oct 30, 2018

Interesting. Both my M9 and my 105X will loft the rear wheels (both have cast weights on the rims and ag tires), no problem with the buckets or forks.

I would be very careful about upping the static pressure at the pump or you'll be popping cylinder seals. You could install a liquid filled pressure gauge on the hydraulic feed line to monitor the actual pressure.

BAP · Oct 30, 2018

SidecarFlip said:
Interesting. Both my M9 and my 105X will loft the rear wheels (both have cast weights on the rims and ag tires), no problem with the buckets or forks.

I would be very careful about upping the static pressure at the pump or you'll be popping cylinder seals. You could install a liquid filled pressure gauge on the hydraulic feed line to monitor the actual pressure.

You aren***8217;t upping the pressure at the pump, you are upping the pressure available for the loader to use. The relief valve in the loader control dictates how much is available for the loader and it is well known that sometimes, particularly after break in, the relief needs to be adjusted. They make shims for that and you plug a gauge on the loader hydraulic couplers to measure.

Lil Foot · Oct 30, 2018

I'm assuming you have the standard size bucket? There was a similar discussion on another forum about the lack of lifting ability of a FEL. Turns out he had a "Light Materials" oversize bucket that had about twice the volume of the normal bucket.

SidecarFlip · Oct 30, 2018

BAP said:
You aren***8217;t upping the pressure at the pump, you are upping the pressure available for the loader to use. The relief valve in the loader control dictates how much is available for the loader and it is well known that sometimes, particularly after break in, the relief needs to be adjusted. They make shims for that and you plug a gauge on the loader hydraulic couplers to measure.

Never did any of that. In my case, no need to.

I could look in the shop manual and tell you what rated pressure is for my units but they have been fine over the years.

winesalot · Oct 30, 2018

Lil Foot said:
I'm assuming you have the standard size bucket? There was a similar discussion on another forum about the lack of lifting ability of a FEL. Turns out he had a "Light Materials" oversize bucket that had about twice the volume of the normal bucket.

This is a correct assumption.

mikester · Oct 30, 2018

winesalot said:
I don't think it is unfair to expect the loader to lift a full bucket of loose dry dirt. I have operated the construction grade equipment you refer to and I fully understand the size and reasonable expectations for this size of tractor. In your statement you say it should be able to dig dirt from a loose pile and I agree which is why I am posting this because mine can't.

“the loader lift and curl lack the power to pick up a full bucket”

Are you talking struck or heaped?

What’s your loaders rated lift capacity - 1,300 lbs at the pins? How big is your bucket? Maybe you are already exceeding the loader capacity...

North Idaho Wolfman · Oct 30, 2018

You need to get a pressure gauge 3500PSI and a Quick disconnect to plug it in to the loader circuit and check it.
Or as others have said have the dealer check it.

greeno · Oct 30, 2018

Assume capacity is 1300 # at the pins, minus bucket weight of 331# leaves you 969#s of material.

Material density...lets say its sand at 3,000# per yard...and your bucket has a capacity of .31 yards struck (not heaped)...you cannot lift a full bucket of gravel with your loader.

If you have different numbers plug them in but I'm not surprised you can't lift a FULL bucket. No idea what the density of moon dust is but if its crushed rock i'm guessing close to or more than sand.

Actually, moon dust is 2,528 #/yd so...

Somewhat Disappointed With The FEL

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