DIY Rural Fire Protection Discussion

I live in dryland wheat country, google substation fire and you will see us. Your plan sounds solid other than a quick-response mobile unit. Most of us here have a gas powered unit in the back of a four wheel drive pick up during the dry months. You won't want to mess with a trailer on a fast moving fire. Our units are typically 100-150 gallons with a gas powered 2" trash pump. Inlet is kept at 2" and output is reduced to one inch. This represents a good balance between mobility/stability/volume/pressure and cost. A piston diaphragm pump is ideal but runs around $2K instead of $400 for pump and motor. I have had 200 gallons in the back of a 3/4 ton Dodge diesel and did NOT like it on uneven terrain. If you are going to keep a loaded unit on hand, don't forget to add a little bleach to the water. Otherwise you will have all kinds of nasty things growing in there.

Also do everything you can for passive fire resistance. The fire may come when you are in town and all your fire fighting apparatus sits there unused.

Bruce

Some good ideas and for intro 30+ years in the fire service.

I would use 3/4" or 1" inch hose instead of the 1 1/2", 1" is what we run on our brush fire trucks. We have 2 100' sections on a hose real. The 1 1/2 will get heavy dragging around full of water and typically you want to knock down the fire keep at bay then drown it for good after the head fire comes through.

Always try to stay in the "black", fight the fire on the burned side advancing hose after it. This way is much safer fighting the fire. Around fields and yards we drive our truck 10' to 15' from the fire on the black spraying the fire to extinguish.

When the wind is right back burning using a drip torch is an great way to contain fire. Caution when doing this as you are setting fires. Example, fire is burning across a field into the wind and no fire break for some distance. You can mount your 4-wheeler and ride 30 yds out front of the fire and lay a string of fire that will back burn to the fire thus taking away any fire load and the fire will stop. Easier said than done, as the fire back burns go long edge where you started and soak it down.

I use my 4 wheeler and 25 gallon tank sprayer when I do control burns. Only use 4' center boom and wand and spray areas I don't want to burn, mostly use in grassy areas that are short and edges of woods where has mostly leaves. Will not work for a field that is 6' high.

My land is on a 3 year control burn rotation. I have broken the farm into 3 sections and burn one each year. Keeps woods healthy and keeps fire load down to a minimum.

Burning is good but only when done in a controlled manner.

I like the idea of sprinklers around your structures that will keep the roofs wet and the areas on the ground near the house wet. Embers are a huge challenge. They float up in the air drift along and plop down and start spot fires. Being mobile and ready to move is key here to put these out. A back pack sprayer with 5 gallons of water is a great tool to run around on your atv and put out spot fires with.

Just some thoughts. I'll check back tonight after trip to deer land and follow up on this post.

Great comments by all, especially CM's.

A buddy is a volunteer and they have these water bags you pressurize with a pump. They barely put out but he said they are very effective on brush fires. Doesn't take much to get one out going bush by bush or in mop up afterwards. Some 3 gallon pump sprayers (like CM said) would do about the same job.

Scott surveyed my property and pointed out a few things. I have a well and if I keep it running, I can use my 3/4 hoses for perimeter fighting around my home. Keep old hoses that are still usable as extra hose to reach out and wet down prior to fire passage, if you have time. Breathing filters and goggles are critical.

The BEST protection is prevention. Clear out areas near you home. Crushed rock makes a great ground cover for your houses perimeter, especially if your exterior is wood. My exterior is stucco, which can handle heat but my roof is foam. I am about to have it coated with rolled silicone which may offer some protection for blowing embers. Fire runs up hill and walks down hill. On Scott's suggestion, I trimmed out about 30% of an ancient ironwood tree down the hill from my house. Scott said the dry wood would fly if caught up in enough heat. I also raked up brush around the tree to prevent it catching, if possible.

If I have time, I have wrenches, 350' of 1.5" hose and nozzles and it all fits the hydrants in front of my house. Only problem is, in Cave Creek, water pressure is generated by electricity. If the fire is big enough, expect the local power company to cut power to your residence.


An interesting article I forwarded to my fire buddies. Some good tips down the page...

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-03/90-wildfires-are-caused-people-not-climate-change

We had a fire threaten our previous place about 25 years ago. I had piddly little lawn sprinklers wetting down the field in front of the house. Deputies came and told us to evacuate, had what I thought was important in my truck and the horses and dogs loaded up already. Went up the street to my neighbor's and she was having trouble catching her horse so I stopped to help her. By the time we got him caught and loaded a deputy came up from my house and said the fire had gone around my property and I could go back home?? What the heck happened? Prairie dog town was adjacent to my place and the fire didn't have any fuel there and, I don't know if this is real, but he said the burrows cooled down the earth. Fire went around us and ran another 20 miles.

I'm a strong proponent of passive fire resistance methods -- fire resistive exteriors, landscaping, etc. I strongly suggest any rural residents have a long hard look at this website:

https://www.ontario.ca/page/wildfire-protection

Having just been through this, I whole heartedly agree about passive fire resistance. One thing I learned about wildland firefighting in the urban interface is something very few wildland firefighters will publicly admit to- if there are two structures imminently threatened, they will always apply whatever resources they have to saving the one that is most prepared for fire. In other words, the one with clear space around it; no leaves, pine needles, brush, or firewood stacked against it, the one most Firewise. Having said that, I'm not sure I fully agree with all the "Firewise" recommendations. Let me explain why I make that statement.
We had the newest recommendations explained to us by a wildland fire expert.
Here we go:

Remove all trees, bushes, pine needles, leaves, & grass within 30 ft of the building.
Store no firewood, lumber, fuels, flammable liquids anywhere on the property.
Remove all bushes & trees under 5ft tall on the property.
Remove all branches from trees from the ground to 5ft.
And here is the biggy:
Remove any tree that is within 12ft of another tree.

While I agree that all of that sounds really safe for fires, it would take ten guys working ten years to do that to my property, and cost at least a quarter million dollars.
And if I did that, I may as well build my mountain home in a Wallyworld parking lot- there would be nothing left of the forest that makes my place enjoyable & beautiful.
There has to be a sensible midpoint between doing nothing and fully complying with the new recommendations. I will try to achieve that.

Many homeowners in the area have 1000-2000gal plastic above ground water tanks, gas powered pumps, & plenty of hose. Once my place is as completely cleaned as is practical, I will probably go that route. I'm a former fire fighter myself, and feel I could be effective in that endeavour, and would know when it's time to run if it gets too bad.

North Idaho Wolfman said:

I'm done for!

Click to expand...

You and me both! The only thing we have going for us is metal roofs on both buildings.

Lil Foot said:

Remove all trees, bushes, pine needles, leaves, & grass within 30 ft of the building.
Store no firewood, lumber, fuels, flammable liquids anywhere on the property.
Remove all bushes & trees under 5ft tall on the property.
Remove all branches from trees from the ground to 5ft.
And here is the biggy:
Remove any tree that is within 12ft of another tree.

Click to expand...

That seems a bit extreme. The recommendations around here are more like:

reduce shrubs, evergreen trees and dead material within 10 metres (30') of buildings (double distance downslope if built on a hill)

keep lawn and foliage green, manicured and healthy. Avoid organic mulch

thin and prune trees within 10-30 metres (30 - 100') of your home (make sure crowns don't touch, prune branches that hang to ground, again, increased distance on downslope side)

ensure power lines are clear of tree limbs

grow fire resistant plants (eg: deciduous trees are much more fire resistive than evergreens, use fire resistive shrubs in gardens near structures)

use brick, stucco, metal siding, metal roofing or asphalt shingles. (thermal pane windows are better than single glazing, fire resistant windows are best)

enclose decks, porches and vents (keeps litter from accumulating, keeps embers from entering)


An added benefit around here is that several of these suggestions tend to help keep the blackflies and mosquitoes down in the spring.

Bill, one can do all those preventive measures, and make the landscape look like the farm fields of Kansas. But remember, a year ago a large portion of that part of the state was consumed by fire...because the grass (for the cattle) was tall!

It boils down to some things we can control, some we can't. Sounds like the best situation for no fire is to live where a fire has just scorched the place!!

After reading these thoughtful posts, I can offer only this: It's the damned Russians again.

I think the negative comments are valid. Every property is unique and requires a different approach. Bill's comments about impracticability on his location and firefighter selection on which homes to dedicate resources on reminds me of the joke about being chased by the bear: I only have to be faster than you. Do what you can to mitigate the risk and look better than your neighbors.

Who doesn't have firewood on their property? Having it stacked next to the house in summer is dumb. In the snows of winter? What threat will a half cord by the back door present?

Here in the high desert we have HUGE trees that often get planted by homeowners right next to the house, with no thought of how large the canopy will eventually grow. Shade out here is valuable in summer but some of the houses in town are time bombs. One guy has aged wood siding on a two story that looks like it should be up in the mountains. And the tree canopy touches the house on three sides. Under the trees is a thicket of brush and weeds. That house is toast. And there are many homes like this one, to varying degrees.

When it comes to emergencies, any preparations at all are better than none.

CaveCreekRay said:

When it comes to emergencies, any preparations at all are better than none.

Click to expand...

True that.

I also forgot to mention that nearly all of those above ground tanks have quick connects (usually 2 1/2") for their local fire trucks to tap from.

Glad to see a discussion initiated. I have a 3 ton former military 4x10 trailer that is setup with two IBC tanks and a gas powered utility pump. It carries 550 gallons and tows very well. It has pump & roll capabilities. I’m still looking for a booster reel setup for cheap and plan to rig a foam injection setup on the outlet at the pump but it requires an aspirating nozzle. This way, I can use foam or straight water at the turn of the valve.

(My Tapatalk app is having trouble uploading pics)

I do have a 10,000 gal indoor pool but wish I could have added a “dry hydrant” setup tee’d into the pool drain so I (or the fire dept) can draft from it. I can pump out using the pool pump and it literally can be used on my two 100ft, 1 1/2” lines in a hurry.

If a fire is threatening, I would hook-up the generator (powers the pool pump & well) and have the hose out for FF’s and myself. The tractor with the fire trailer will be mobile.

BEFORE it all, it DOES pay to prep the property year round by removing ladder fuels, dead standing trees close to the home, and creating a nice defensive zone around structures. Short dry grass doesn’t bother me as the fuel cannot sustain in one spot to catch mature trees (no ladder fuels) on fire.

I currently have a $6,800 grant to thin my 10 acres to mitigate the excessive fuels. I do have too many saplings.

Anyone with foaming advice?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk