Mount walk behind tiller on 3 point hitch?

D2Cat · Jan 8, 2018

"IF you grow your own hay today you're an idiot. It costs more to grow than you'll get for it."

Professor, a bit of an overstatement. Many farmers cut and bale their own hay simply because they have a little bit more control over the feed they need for their animals. If the area has a dry Winter and Spring the hay crop will be very limited, so then there is no place to buy it. If you're raising register cattle, or ones that could be you just haven't....you don't want to sell your herd because of one bad year.

Also, 250-300 bales per acre is exaggerated. 80# square bales may get you a yield of 125 bales per acre on a good year. And with some crops you can get a second cutting.

I'm simply trying to point out, get all the facts and get them from several sources before you decide to bet your livelihood on anything.

bucktail · Jan 8, 2018

You might also keep your eye out for the tillers that John Deere build for their 400 series tractors. BillRigsby and DieselBob on this board both got good deals on them if you want to search for their threads. You'll need to get a new PTO shaft to be compatible with yours and change out the 3ph pins with cat 1 pins.

DieselBob swapped out one of the sprockets on the side to make it compatible with 540 PTO (it is designed for 850 rpm), but you may not need to as you have more than one speed to your PTO.

prof.fate · Jan 8, 2018

I've never seen an 80lb bale..40 is more like it. and it's common here to get 3 cuttings a year. Googling says 100/acre per cutting is a fair guesstimate, and I'm assuming all 3 cuttings won't be as full - the third is often lower yielding.

If you have the land/equipment -great. Big square bales have shown up of late, MUCH nicer than round bales for horses and handling. 1000-1200 lb i'm told (3x3 or 3x4 and 7 or 8 feet long). I heard a big square baler costs $75,000...the JD L340 is $140,000 or so...

If that's right, you need to bale on hell of a lot of acreage to ever pay for that.

A used small baler is $10-12k, and you need 40hp or so to drive it..costs add up quickly.

And if you plan to sell hay, or store it for the winter for your herd, you need a building of some kind...that's gonna cost money too. 10k? 30k? sky could be the limit..

and maybe you want to barn your equipment..

OR we can just buy it as needed...and avoid all those overhead costs.

Other things make more sense, like eggs. We get eggs at about 75 to 85c a dozen, can sell them at $2-3/dozen.
Overhead..at this time it's, um, a water fountain and lightbulb so it won't freeze. Hens are 100% free range and roost in the barn anywhere they want (they hang in an empty stall, lay eggs on the hay).

to make enough eggs to make a living..that's a different story of course.

D2Cat said:
"IF you grow your own hay today you're an idiot. It costs more to grow than you'll get for it."

Professor, a bit of an overstatement. Many farmers cut and bale their own hay simply because they have a little bit more control over the feed they need for their animals. If the area has a dry Winter and Spring the hay crop will be very limited, so then there is no place to buy it. If you're raising register cattle, or ones that could be you just haven't....you don't want to sell your herd because of one bad year.

Also, 250-300 bales per acre is exaggerated. 80# square bales may get you a yield of 125 bales per acre on a good year. And with some crops you can get a second cutting.

I'm simply trying to point out, get all the facts and get them from several sources before you decide to bet your livelihood on anything.

wardsfarmnj · Mar 5, 2018

Not sure what the capacity of your tractor is but I got a 37" tiller for my BX1500 about 2 years ago for $850 shipped to my door. Its been good to me for 3 years and I beat it up. I actually only had 4.86 acres mainly wooded and wetlands. I planted probably .75 acres. This little guy did the job and you would be amazed how much I made off my honest box farm stand out in front of the house. I plant organic, not certified but I don't use anything other than dirt, water and compost. The biggest best seller for me was sunflowers. I couldn't keep the buckets full on the weekends. The company that I got the tiller from is this: https://betstco.com/product-category/tractor-implements/3-pt-rotary-tillers/
(moderators if this isn't allowed please remove)
I actually found them on ebay and that is where they run specials. Seems to me if you could get a deal like that you would most likely be better off.

jyoutz · Jan 28, 2019

prof.fate said:
there is a place an hour-ish away that rents attachments..do they rent what I need? Not sure.
Cost to rent? not sure.

I plan to go into semi-commercial farming so will be tilling up a good bit of land, and doing it often.

IF this works as a business then buying a tiller won't be an issue, but trying to keep start up costs low is key.

I have a receiver adapter on my tractor - not too hard to weld up a mount from the tiller to it I wouldn't think...do it right and the tiller could mount either way so be fwd or rev rotation!!

IF I wanted to get a hyd pump, there is an old case hydraulic tiller for sale locally, with control valve and all the lines, runs fwd or reverse..only $500.

The case 444 it would run off of put out 8gpm of hyd flow..my L175 does a whopping 3gpm.

So maybe this...http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...P-PTO-A-3-6-S-Hydraulic-PTO-Pump-9-8902-3.axd

ahh, if I only was made of money!

I would be very skeptical about the safety of what you are trying to do. The PTO operated tiller operates at the appropriate ground speed as the tractor, and are disengaged by the PTO or clutch when stopping. I was in your same position years ago, and ended up buying a used tiller from a equipment rental company. I was somewhat concerned that a rental attachment would be abused and worn out. I bought my Woods brand 54" tiller over 18 years ago for a very good price, and I still use it every year. I discovered that most places that rents equipment are willing to sell their used implements because they continuously rotate out used with new equipment.

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2019

prof.fate said:
I've never seen an 80lb bale..40 is more like it. and it's common here to get 3 cuttings a year. Googling says 100/acre per cutting is a fair guesstimate, and I'm assuming all 3 cuttings won't be as full - the third is often lower yielding.

If you have the land/equipment -great. Big square bales have shown up of late, MUCH nicer than round bales for horses and handling. 1000-1200 lb i'm told (3x3 or 3x4 and 7 or 8 feet long). I heard a big square baler costs $75,000...the JD L340 is $140,000 or so...

If that's right, you need to bale on hell of a lot of acreage to ever pay for that.

A used small baler is $10-12k, and you need 40hp or so to drive it..costs add up quickly.

And if you plan to sell hay, or store it for the winter for your herd, you need a building of some kind...that's gonna cost money too. 10k? 30k? sky could be the limit..

and maybe you want to barn your equipment..

OR we can just buy it as needed...and avoid all those overhead costs.

Other things make more sense, like eggs. We get eggs at about 75 to 85c a dozen, can sell them at $2-3/dozen.
Overhead..at this time it's, um, a water fountain and lightbulb so it won't freeze. Hens are 100% free range and roost in the barn anywhere they want (they hang in an empty stall, lay eggs on the hay).

to make enough eggs to make a living..that's a different story of course.

Boy am I glad I never commented on your posts... You don't know shitte from shinola when it comes to growing forage.

Typically, my profit margin averages 65%. and I have all those buildings for storage of hay, storage of equipment and my bottom line is always in the black with no government assistance because it's not row cropping.

Better stick to your hobby tractors and leave the ag part to people who know what they are doing, you very obviously do not have a clue.

shootem604 · Jan 29, 2019

I wouldn't try to adapt the walk behind or use the case hydraulic tiller. Around here anyways if you keep your eyes open you can snag a decent tiller for well under a grand - sell your walk behind and them buy a 3 pt? And those Case hydraulic tillers are not the greatest - by now they are old and they aren't the best under ideal circumstances anyways. If this is an investment, do it right the first time.

prof.fate · Jan 31, 2019

Glad you can do that well. How do you calculate that margin?

How much land are you haying?
IS that an avg margin or a good year?

Locally we had the wettest year on record - great for growing, terrible for harvesting hay. Normally a round bale (800lb ish) is $35-45..we buy a few every winter. This year...sold out, someone is offering them, trucked in, at $125/bale.
So in SOME years you'll make bank at $125/bale..other years at $35, not so much.

A typical sq bale first cutting here is $3.50 to $4, second cutting $1 more.

If I were to start haying I'd have to get the field ready - weed removal, fertilizer and some seeding. Local cow farmers say $50/acre/year for fertilizer is routine.

Time to get the hay - my time has value so that needs to be counted in there somewhere, in addition to the hard investments i equipment and buildings and land.

HOw much hay do you get from an acre? USDA says about 2.5 tons, so that's what, 3 round bales? $100/acre...with fertilizer at $50 you can't make 65% margin.

Square bales will pay about $225/acre if you're lucky, more if it's alfalfa, maybe $350. Sounds better.

If you hoop house for storage that's pretty inexpensive, but a pole barn won't be cheap, even spread out over 10 or 20 years.

My math says off 10 acres I should average 550 bales...my cost is 9 trips thru the field at $25-30 in fuel each time, plus at the lowest end $4k in equip (i have a tractor) - ignoring pasture maintenance, assuming 7 years life on the equip (buying used...it needs main/repair more often) and $2k for a hoop house for storage good for 5 years (cover will rot) - $1250/year to make 550 bales - plus my time!! - my COST per bale is $2.72.

Plus - fertilizer/mtce (300/year?), taxes on the property ($300?), my time ($15/hour 80 hours, $1000, any maintenace on the equipment (3%,$120, string or other consumables ($30)

That puts cost per bale at about $5.50. I can sell that for say, $4 - so I'm losing money.

And that's not accounting for any mtce/depreciation/payment on the tractor itself.

If I"m wrong on these numbers please show me where!!

SidecarFlip said:
Boy am I glad I never commented on your posts... You don't know shitte from shinola when it comes to growing forage.

Typically, my profit margin averages 65%. and I have all those buildings for storage of hay, storage of equipment and my bottom line is always in the black with no government assistance because it's not row cropping.

Better stick to your hobby tractors and leave the ag part to people who know what they are doing, you very obviously do not have a clue.

D2Cat · Jan 31, 2019

So professor you got it figured out. Many farmers enjoy the work, being out doors, on their own, operating equipment, doing repairs themselves, and protecting some of their income from their day job, all the while building some value in their property.

Your numbers are inconsistent. You say a round bale is 800#ish, then figure 2.5 tons of hay is 3 round bales. "HOw much hay do you get from an acre? USDA says about 2.5 tons, so that's what, 3 round bales? $100/acre...with fertilizer at $50 you can't make 65% margin." By you own information 4500# / 800# ea. = 5.6 bales.

Your 40# square bales are probably bales you've never handled. That would be considered extremely light. 75-90# be more normal, and I've seen alfalfa much heavier the that!

I can also tell you I can grow nutritious hay with less than $50 acre fertilizer cost.

Your storage cost are not necessary either. Univ. of Mo. shows the cost of barn for hay storage doesn't pay. And this study was done back when the twine was wrapped 4" apart for a tight bale. Now balers wrap hay tighter and can also use netwrap for better water shed.

http://courses.missouristate.edu/We...ition\\ForageSystemsv4n3LowCostHayStorage.htm

If you are going to figure your necessary income on every minute you do something you best keep working at your in-town job, Sell all your hobby farm equipment, quit trying to convince your family you can generate enough income from a garden, eggs, hay or anything else to sustain life in the country. Without enough land with no debt, acres to produce volume, and equipment to plant and harvest in the narrow window each year, and labor to get it done income is limited.

North Idaho Wolfman · Jan 31, 2019

SidecarFlip said:
Boy am I glad I never commented on your posts... You don't know shitte from shinola when it comes to growing forage.

And yet now you do, and are extremely rude in doing it!

skeets · Jan 31, 2019

I always hated haying season, I never got on the smart end of a bailer, and old one a freeking huge CASE motor had a big fly hanging off the side. And I know there wasnt a bail that weighed 40 pounds, they would have been a pleasure to handle! We hauled in a 57 ford stepside got 57 to 64 bails on it depending on who stacked and was driving. Roll bails for the horses were on the average 800+ pounds and were every thing that old massey harris could handle.

The grass as I recall was timothy and alfalfa and clover, with some bermuda and orchard grass mixed in,, yeah old Unc would buy seed up AFTER planting season ( what ever the feed store couldnt get rid of) was over and plant it next spring, so there was a mixture of GKW.

Muck out stalls dump in to a big pile and when the time was right spread it all over the fields, I guess thats organic today.

prof.fate · Feb 1, 2019

So the math on the rounds is wrong - it's why i asked you to check.

the squares I've handled here for 35 years are never 50lb each. ever. I've stacked and moved and fed thousands of them and lots and lots of 50lb sacks of feed - and no bale has ever outweighed a sack of feed.

so more like 6.25 round bales...say 7 to make it easy. at even $50 each that's only $350/acre.

125 40lb bales at $4 is $600..better. Some charge more (selling to the race tracks..but I"m not selling, i'm growing it to offset buying it, so my price is 3.75/bale first cutting, 4.50 second)

If we go with your what 75lb bale that's 67 bales/acre...

Hay stored outside here in PA is for cows or mulch..it molds, gets dusty. Even if plastic wrapped in can go bad.

Remember, i'll be haying in early june and won't use that hay for 6 months. Last year we had over 30" of rain during that time. We had hay in barns go moldy from all the dampness.

Time is a limited resource - you can get more cattle, more land, bigger tractors and implements - but your days do not get longer.

As a long time business owner I have to make my capital and time produce the most possible -

I have X hours to work - If I can work off farm and make $17/hour versus making my own hay and spending so much time i'm paying my self $10/hour PLUS investing $4-8k in equipment...it's not worth it. i'm better off working off-farm and letting some other schmuck work for $10/hour to make hay for me.

There is something to be said for doing what you WANT to do - I'd rather be in the field on a tractor that doing many ohter things i"ve had to do in life to make a buck, but I DO have to make a buck here and there.

We can get maybe 300 bales in our barn without putting it in stalss, under the sawdust, etc. So if I cut 125/acre for 10 acres over the summer and feed that over the winter I need storage for about 1000 bales.

Tarping it has been tried in the past..there is usually substantial loss. Typical humidity here in teh summer is 80%. Last year with the rain the lowest humidity day - and only 1 day - from may to christmas was 67%. Today it's 68% humidity..and 10F, and rain is predicted for 4 of the next 5 days as the temps hit hte mid 50s and the 6" of snow we have will also melt.

D2Cat said:
So professor you got it figured out. Many farmers enjoy the work, being out doors, on their own, operating equipment, doing repairs themselves, and protecting some of their income from their day job, all the while building some value in their property.

Your numbers are inconsistent. You say a round bale is 800#ish, then figure 2.5 tons of hay is 3 round bales. "HOw much hay do you get from an acre? USDA says about 2.5 tons, so that's what, 3 round bales? $100/acre...with fertilizer at $50 you can't make 65% margin." By you own information 4500# / 800# ea. = 5.6 bales.

Your 40# square bales are probably bales you've never handled. That would be considered extremely light. 75-90# be more normal, and I've seen alfalfa much heavier the that!

I can also tell you I can grow nutritious hay with less than $50 acre fertilizer cost.

Your storage cost are not necessary either. Univ. of Mo. shows the cost of barn for hay storage doesn't pay. And this study was done back when the twine was wrapped 4" apart for a tight bale. Now balers wrap hay tighter and can also use netwrap for better water shed.

http://courses.missouristate.edu/We...ition\\ForageSystemsv4n3LowCostHayStorage.htm

If you are going to figure your necessary income on every minute you do something you best keep working at your in-town job, Sell all your hobby farm equipment, quit trying to convince your family you can generate enough income from a garden, eggs, hay or anything else to sustain life in the country. Without enough land with no debt, acres to produce volume, and equipment to plant and harvest in the narrow window each year, and labor to get it done income is limited.

Yooper · Feb 3, 2019

A couple of thoughts on your quest.

1)I would want it to be offset so the tires don't compact what you just tilled.

2)Tractor speed is going to be a factor on how well it will work. Will the tractor go slow enough to let the tiller do its thing without bogging it down?

3)A way of killing the motor on the tiller from the seat would be a wise safety investment. Anything from a remote switch to a rope to pull the spark plug wire off.

4)I can relate to wanting to sit on my tractor versus doing it by hand. Good luck if you decide to build and please post pictures of your progress so we can help.

SidecarFlip · Feb 3, 2019

D2Cat said:
So professor you got it figured out. Many farmers enjoy the work, being out doors, on their own, operating equipment, doing repairs themselves, and protecting some of their income from their day job, all the while building some value in their property.

Your numbers are inconsistent. You say a round bale is 800#ish, then figure 2.5 tons of hay is 3 round bales. "HOw much hay do you get from an acre? USDA says about 2.5 tons, so that's what, 3 round bales? $100/acre...with fertilizer at $50 you can't make 65% margin." By you own information 4500# / 800# ea. = 5.6 bales.

Your 40# square bales are probably bales you've never handled. That would be considered extremely light. 75-90# be more normal, and I've seen alfalfa much heavier the that!

I can also tell you I can grow nutritious hay with less than $50 acre fertilizer cost.

Your storage cost are not necessary either. Univ. of Mo. shows the cost of barn for hay storage doesn't pay. And this study was done back when the twine was wrapped 4" apart for a tight bale. Now balers wrap hay tighter and can also use netwrap for better water shed.

http://courses.missouristate.edu/We...ition\\ForageSystemsv4n3LowCostHayStorage.htm

If you are going to figure your necessary income on every minute you do something you best keep working at your in-town job, Sell all your hobby farm equipment, quit trying to convince your family you can generate enough income from a garden, eggs, hay or anything else to sustain life in the country. Without enough land with no debt, acres to produce volume, and equipment to plant and harvest in the narrow window each year, and labor to get it done income is limited.

On the subject of bale density and weight. I can roll a round at any density I want, from a light 500 pound round to over 1000 pounds,All I have to do is tell the computer what I want. Same thing applies to size. I can input any size up to 6 foot in diameter via the keypad.

I can wrap a bale in net or twine depending on what I want, again by using the keypad and setting the parameters. Sometimes I wrap in twine but usually in net (the ones I sell and I have one buyer who buys everything I make. All I do is load his trailers with rounds. I do about 40 acres of hay which will jump to 52 this year. Inputs have increased but 46 granulated still comes in at less than 50 bucks an acre per cut and overseeding another 50 per depending on how much I apply. I use both granulated via broadcast spreading and foliar innoculant via a spray rig, just depends on how the forage is looking, the dryness of the weather and what is available at the best price.

On the subject of small squares, again it's entirely dependent on the density setting. I can run 40's or 80's if I want to, just a matter of setting the hydraulic pressure on the squeeze chute. I like to run on the low side of 50 if possible, just for ease of handling. No one likes to handle a tank bale that I know of. Both my balers have proprionic acid applicators but I rarely use it. You can bale at over 25%RM with acid but most people don't like it so I don't use it unless I'm dealing with a pending rain event and the forage hasn't dried down sufficiently to bale (15%RM). It's there if I need it. Like an insurance policy of sorts.

Been doing this for at least 10 years maybe longer and I've never run in the red. Always in the black and nice thing about it is, I not only sell it but I have it for my own stock and my wife's nags too. Oldest piece of equipment I own is my rotary rake at 23 years old and the newest is the NH round baler I bought 2 years ago to replace an older NH that wan't computer controlled. I like running rounds without ever leaving the cab and computer control and real time monitoring makes running consistent bales in weight and size much easier.

Still a hobby for me, always will be but I make money wit the hobby.

I'll do some pictures this year when running hay.

prof.fate · Feb 3, 2019

great info.
How many tons/acre do you get on average?

SidecarFlip said:
On the subject of bale density and weight. I can roll a round at any density I want, from a light 500 pound round to over 1000 pounds,All I have to do is tell the computer what I want. Same thing applies to size. I can input any size up to 6 foot in diameter via the keypad.

I can wrap a bale in net or twine depending on what I want, again by using the keypad and setting the parameters. Sometimes I wrap in twine but usually in net (the ones I sell and I have one buyer who buys everything I make. All I do is load his trailers with rounds. I do about 40 acres of hay which will jump to 52 this year. Inputs have increased but 46 granulated still comes in at less than 50 bucks an acre per cut and overseeding another 50 per depending on how much I apply. I use both granulated via broadcast spreading and foliar innoculant via a spray rig, just depends on how the forage is looking, the dryness of the weather and what is available at the best price.

On the subject of small squares, again it's entirely dependent on the density setting. I can run 40's or 80's if I want to, just a matter of setting the hydraulic pressure on the squeeze chute. I like to run on the low side of 50 if possible, just for ease of handling. No one likes to handle a tank bale that I know of. Both my balers have proprionic acid applicators but I rarely use it. You can bale at over 25%RM with acid but most people don't like it so I don't use it unless I'm dealing with a pending rain event and the forage hasn't dried down sufficiently to bale (15%RM). It's there if I need it. Like an insurance policy of sorts.

Been doing this for at least 10 years maybe longer and I've never run in the red. Always in the black and nice thing about it is, I not only sell it but I have it for my own stock and my wife's nags too. Oldest piece of equipment I own is my rotary rake at 23 years old and the newest is the NH round baler I bought 2 years ago to replace an older NH that wan't computer controlled. I like running rounds without ever leaving the cab and computer control and real time monitoring makes running consistent bales in weight and size much easier.

Still a hobby for me, always will be but I make money wit the hobby.

I'll do some pictures this year when running hay.

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Mount walk behind tiller on 3 point hitch?

D2Cat

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bucktail

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prof.fate

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wardsfarmnj

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shootem604

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skeets

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