Connection of knuckle arm to drag link loose

ossa

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2004 Kubota B7510, LA302 FEL, Woods Backhoe
Hi Folks,

On my 2004 B7510 HST, the connection between the knuckle arm and the drag link is very sloppy. The drag link is sort of like the pitman arm on a car. The Knuckle arm comes from the steering mechanism to turn the front wheels. I have a couple of questions please:

1. Would you expect this linkage to be loose with a tractor with only 350 hours?
2. Is this a link that is at all prone to breaking when worn? I'm about to put chains on my front tires as I've been having problems with the front wheels skittering sideways when my snow plow is at an angle. Chains will put a bit more stress on this linkage and I'd hate to cause breakage in the middle of the winter and getting stuck while plowing during a storm.

Thanks all!
 

hodge

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Are you talking about a tie rod end? While you'd expect one to last longer than 350 hours, stuff does wear out and fail. I would replace it before it falls apart, and chains would impose more stress on it.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Loose as in it rotates or loose as in it rattles side to side?
 

D2Cat

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Maybe you need to remove the cotter pin and tighten the nut a skoosh?

Ossa, I had a similar problem many moons ago. I couldn't find the steering linkage I needed so I took the wore out joint to the local O'Rielly Auto store and got one of the guys to help me find one they had in stock that fit the taper REAL close..and I cut off the old one and welded on the new one.

If you do weld them you do not weld them end to end. At the end of each piece you grind back about 3/8-1/2 inch on half of the diameter. Then you mate up the flats and you have much more material to weld. This means your starting dimension needs to be 3/8-1/2 in longer, depending on how long you make the shoulder.
 
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ossa

New member

Equipment
2004 Kubota B7510, LA302 FEL, Woods Backhoe
Maybe you need to remove the cotter pin and tighten the nut a skoosh?

Ossa, I had a similar problem many moons ago. I couldn't find the steering linkage I needed so I took the wore out joint to the local O'Rielly Auto store and got one of the guys to help me find one they had in stock that fit the taper REAL close..and I cut off the old one and welded on the new one.

If you do weld them you do not weld them end to end. At the end of each piece you grind back about 3/8-1/2 inch on half of the diameter. Then you mate up the flats and you have much more material to weld. This means your starting dimension needs to be 3/8-1/2 in longer, depending on how long you make the shoulder.
Thank you D2CAT! I'll definitely check it out! I can see you have experience with that joint!
 

Tooljunkie

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If the ball/socket is loose,cutting end off and welding another in its place is an easy repair. Tapering ends as mentioned for a butt weld wil make the repair permanent. Remember to get a greaseable end,do your best to keep end cool or it will melt parts inside.

You checked to make sure its not loose in taper on knuckle?

As far as it skating while plowing snow,any down pressure takes weight off wheels and chains wont help. Using float and adjusting skid shoes will minimize skating. Adding weight on front of tractor may help some too.
 

ossa

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2004 Kubota B7510, LA302 FEL, Woods Backhoe
If the ball/socket is loose,cutting end off and welding another in its place is an easy repair. Tapering ends as mentioned for a butt weld wil make the repair permanent. Remember to get a greaseable end,do your best to keep end cool or it will melt parts inside.

You checked to make sure its not loose in taper on knuckle?

As far as it skating while plowing snow,any down pressure takes weight off wheels and chains wont help. Using float and adjusting skid shoes will minimize skating. Adding weight on front of tractor may help some too.
I will check the taper on knuckle to make sure it's not loose. Thanks for the advice on the welding. Definitely true on the weight on the front. I just got the tractor and there's a back hoe on it that does take weight off the front wheels. The plow is a 6' unit mounted to the bucket on the FEL. The plow floats so I'm able to leave the bucket up a bit to get that weight on the front. It came with a nice grader blade for the 3 point hitch. Next winter I'll have that on the back which is much lighter than the back hoe, putting more weight on the front. The plow blade in front plus the grader blade should make a nice combo for the winter. I'm a newbie to tractoring and haven't mustered the courage to deal with the removal of the back hoe in the freezing temps up here in VT. It hasn't been removed from the tractor in over 10 years, so I'm suspecting I'll have to deal with some frozen pins. Thank you!
 

Tooljunkie

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Not much use for a backhoe in winter, except for weight. A rear blade and front plow you should waste no time clearing snow as you can do it in both directions. No time wasted backing up and turning around.
 

D2Cat

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Here's a method to get good strength when welding round material. Grind each shaft back the desired distance (I like to go 3/8 to 1/2" if there is enough material/room) . Use a jig, like a piece of angle iron, to lay the two parts in being welded to keep them straight to each other. Chamfer the edges to get good penetration.
 

Attachments

ossa

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Equipment
2004 Kubota B7510, LA302 FEL, Woods Backhoe
Here's a method to get good strength when welding round material. Grind each shaft back the desired distance (I like to go 3/8 to 1/2" if there is enough material/room) . Use a jig, like a piece of angle iron, to lay the two parts in being welded to keep them straight to each other. Chamfer the edges to get good penetration.
Great approach. Thank you for the drawing and idea!
 

ossa

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Equipment
2004 Kubota B7510, LA302 FEL, Woods Backhoe
Well I was able to get out there today to clear some new snow and raise the front wheels to take a look. Sure enough, the joint was not tight in the taper. The slop was in the taper, not the ball joint. However, I wasn't able to tighten it. The nut and the stud just rotated together due to rust. Too cold/snowy to deal with it now. I'll wait till a bit warmer weather and get and impact wrench on there after some penetrating oil and hope it breaks free. Even when it does, it still might be a trick to get it to tighten up w/o spinning the taper in its socket. Any ideas? Thanks!
 

Lil Foot

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If there is enough exposed thread, you can use two jam nuts (thin nuts) tightened against each other to keep the stud from turning. If not, clean the tapers, use as much down (or up, can't tell from tiny pic) pressure as you can & hit the nut with an impact driver.
 

ossa

New member

Equipment
2004 Kubota B7510, LA302 FEL, Woods Backhoe
If there is enough exposed thread, you can use two jam nuts (thin nuts) tightened against each other to keep the stud from turning. If not, clean the tapers, use as much down (or up, can't tell from tiny pic) pressure as you can & hit the nut with an impact driver.
Good thought on the jam nuts, but not enough thread. I'll have to have at it with the impact wrench. Good excuse to buy an impact wrench :D - I have a compressor for my nailers that will work nicely!

Thanks Bill!
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I have a compressor for my nailers that will work nicely!
If they are the pancake compressors or any small compressor with a small tank, it's probably not going to work, you're better off getting an electric model.
 

Tooljunkie

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If they are the pancake compressors or any small compressor with a small tank, it's probably not going to work, you're better off getting an electric model.
A pancake style will give you a few hits, depending on the impact.they demand a great deal of air.20 gallon air tank at the very least. If you buy a HF impact you will be disappointed.
Chicago pneumatic
Ingersoll rand
Sioux
Snap on
Mac
You get the idea, my daily use one is from napa,made by sioux or ingersoll.

A large prybar to push tie rod back into taper if its pointing down. A bottle jack if its pointing down. A little heat on nut and a kick with impact and it should come off.

If taper/tie rod end taper isnt too far gone,it may still work. A couple washers under nut will aid in getting it tight.
Failing that, a machinist could ream the taper bore and make a sleeve. Or replace knuckle bracket.
 

Wbk

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Feb 20, 2013
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If the nut is tight to the stud and you can't loosen it try putting a bar under the ball stud end that is loose forcing the stud into the taper as you unscrew it, you might even use a little hydraulic jack if you have to. When you finally have it apart try to determine if the hole in the steering arm is still reasonably round, if it is and your going to just tighten it up be sure that the tapered part of the drag link stud isn't protruding above the steering arm flat surface you may have to install a flat washer before installing the nut be sure that the washer is a little loose so it goes over the taper. Hope this helps you, Barry
 

Wbk

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I should have added another trick to loosen the nut, when you have pressure on the taper you can rattle the side of the nut with a zip gun and it should come off fairly easy,