R1 and R4 vs clay and thorns

Fiddlin Farmer · Apr 23, 2019

So, I just became a Kubota owner last weekend when I bought my 2003 L3430 with LA513 loader.

My first order of business is to ditch the turf tires. I have to say though, coming from my 1966 Ford 2000, I am absolutely amazed at how this tractor can get through wet clay even with turf tires.

My main project, besides pasture mowing and manure management, is ridding my woods of invasive plants - Multiflora rose, autumn olive, bush honeysuckle and all manner of briars.

My predicament is the combination of clay-mud and thorns.

Reasons for R1:

Best in traction - no need for discussion there
Narrower than R4 will help me fit down trails and between trees
My horse and goats won't care if I leave marks when mowing the pasture

Reasons for R4:

Thorns - I have heard the R4's are much more thorn-resistant. I have already had to replace both ribbed fronts on my Ford 2000 because thorns had worked all the way through the tires and were shredding the tubes.
It would be nice if I wouldn't have to feel like I'm shredding cash if I want to drive 2 miles down the road to my house on rare occasion for projects, or when I have to use the road to cross the bridge to the south side of my property.
I also have about 2 miles of hardened dirt trails to mow a couple times a year.

Questions:

Can R4's be put on my L3430 that will keep it right at the 5' wide mark it is with the turf tires? I want to stay at or under 5' wide to navigate the trails.
Am I over-rating R4 for thorn resistance or over-reacting against R1?
With 4-wheel drive, do you all expect I would have much trouble getting stuck in mud with R4?

Right before I bought the tractor, the previous owner put some old R4s on the front tires. As much as many of you folks like pictures, I imagine some of you noticed. He said he did not have to change rims - I thought R1/R3/R4 all took different rims. I don't really know if he followed specs or not. Its not going to matter much 'cause I planned on replacing all four anyway (the front R4s are used with some dry-rot).

By the way, you'll probably be seeing quite a bit of me coming up. I have all kinds of questions about implements and how to best use my new-to-me awesome machine.

Thanks much,
Fiddlin Farmer

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 23, 2019

If he fit R4's on R1 rims, then there will be a 99% chance they are the wrong size.
If he put them on the turf rims, it's a 80% chance they will be the right size.

Turfs and R$'s normally share same rim sizes and approximately the same width.

Post what size tires you have on it now.

But I wouldn't recommend R4's for mud, they are about the worst for that.

And as far as them being more thorn resistant, that maybe a 20% chance they will be.

Get a good set of R1's and fill them with a good (not slime) tire sealer and hope for the best, or spend some serious money and get them foam filled.

I have foam filled tires and they are the best for really rough work!

SidecarFlip · Apr 23, 2019

Good R1's like Titans are Firestone will be thorn resistant. I run Titan R1's in corm stubble all the time, no problems. I'm adverse to filled tires because of the compaction and rutting issues.

Might be fine on a little tractor for ballast but thats it. No filled tires on the front if it's FWA. Causes steering issues.

sheepfarmer · Apr 23, 2019

Flip, I think that the foam filled tires NIW was referring to, are light relative to water/beet juice filled, so compaction shouldn't be an issue.

I have R4's and agree they are not great in greasy mud.

D2Cat · Apr 23, 2019

If you want to do some playing with the numbers you can see what the weight of the fill product makes to your specific tire size.

For example, if your tractor has 12.2 x 24 on the rear, foam filled will be 368#, and RimGuard (beet juice) will be 321# for 30 gallons. And water or windshield washer fluid would be 8# per gallon or 240#.

https://otrwheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/OTR_Tires_Foam_Fill_Estimation_Guide_RevA.pdf

https://www.rimguardsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/RimGuardBeetJuiceTireFillChart.pdf

sheepfarmer · Apr 23, 2019

D2Cat said:
If you want to do some playing with the numbers you can see what the weight of the fill product makes to your specific tire size.

For example, if your tractor has 12.2 x 24 on the rear, foam filled will be 368#, and RimGuard (beet juice) will be 321# for 30 gallons. And water or windshield washer fluid would be 8# per gallon or 240#.

https://otrwheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/OTR_Tires_Foam_Fill_Estimation_Guide_RevA.pdf

https://www.rimguardsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/RimGuardBeetJuiceTireFillChart.pdf

Wow, I would never have thought that foam filled could turn out heavier than water filled?

SidecarFlip · Apr 23, 2019

Hoping my soon to be arriving used M9 don't have filled rears. I'll have to drain them and borrow the dealer's evacuation tool to get that stuff out.

Fiddlin Farmer · Apr 23, 2019

North Idaho Wolfman said:
Post what size tires you have on it now.

All four were turf tires before he put the R4's on the front.

The back tires are Bridgestone 355/80d20.
The front tires are Titan 27x8 50-15nhs.

Based on all these comments, I am certainly going to go with R1 rims and tires. I really don't want to increase my chance of getting stuck in the back 40. I believe that is supposed to knock about 4" off my width too.

North Idaho Wolfman said:
Get a good set of R1's and fill them with a good (not slime) tire sealer and hope for the best...

Do you have any recommendations for a good tire sealer? I have used slime with good results in my golf cart and small yard tractor, but then those are in a completely different class.

Fiddlin Farmer · Apr 23, 2019

SidecarFlip said:
No filled tires on the front if it's FWA. Causes steering issues.

Thanks for that note. I had not considered the FWA issue with filling the fronts. I have thought about experimenting to see if I can move a round hay bale with the back end and know I'll need more weight in front if that is going to be even remotely possible. That wasn't my main reason for choosing my L3430, but it sure would be nice if it could do it.

SRG · Apr 23, 2019

sheepfarmer said:
Wow, I would never have thought that foam filled could turn out heavier than water filled?

it's actually a polyurethane foam that cures into an elastomer. Not what one normally thinks of when it comes to foam.
It's heavy, and expensive. I had a quote for my two front tires because of cracked tire carcasses. Two 7-14's would cost me $370 and be 75-80lbs/tire.
Never seen any hard evidence of it causing extra or expedited wear, on the front axle/steering components. I have read of a couple first hand accounts where guys had taken things apart to check for accelerated wear, but nothing turned up. But they claimed it really helped with tire squish and sidewall rollover when turning with the FEL full and heavy. I think it's an old wives tale. A front end loader should cause more wear than filled tires. .

12251hd · Apr 24, 2019

I run R-4s on my M6800 that I use primarily for bush-hogging and general utility work. Although there are times when R-1's could have provided better traction, the R-4's give me peace of mind around sapling stubble and rocks. Check the rim size before committing. Good luck.

Fiddlin Farmer · Apr 24, 2019

12251hd said:
I run R-4s on my M6800 that I use primarily for bush-hogging and general utility work. Although there are times when R-1's could have provided better traction, the R-4's give me peace of mind around sapling stubble and rocks. Check the rim size before committing. Good luck.

12251hd - I will certainly have plenty of sapling stubble to worry about - and I do worry about it. Is your main work area mostly flat, or hills and ditches? My 80 acres has quite a variety of flat, hill and ditch (well, cliff too, but I won't be working that

).

I knew before I bought the tractor that the R1's would require different rims.

SidecarFlip · Apr 24, 2019

Fiddlin Farmer said:
Thanks for that note. I had not considered the FWA issue with filling the fronts. I have thought about experimenting to see if I can move a round hay bale with the back end and know I'll need more weight in front if that is going to be even remotely possible. That wasn't my main reason for choosing my L3430, but it sure would be nice if it could do it.

I typically run a 4x6 round on the front and one on the back as well. Thinking about going to a double spear on the front to expedite field loading.

Look at the 3 point lift capability at 24" from center to see if it will handle a round on a 3 point spear,

One reason I have the bigger M series. Tractor weight becomes a consideration in the field because the ground isn't table top smooth.

Because I'm in the forage business, getting it done and loaded in the least amount of time is always important. Also why I net wrap. Net is quicker (but more expensive than twine) but net sheds water, twine don't. I run 50" over the edge net.

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 24, 2019

This is one of the higher end products.

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B015AH35M2/ezvid02-20

North Idaho Wolfman · Apr 24, 2019

Fiddlin Farmer said:
Thanks for that note. I had not considered the FWA issue with filling the fronts. I have thought about experimenting to see if I can move a round hay bale with the back end and know I'll need more weight in front if that is going to be even remotely possible. That wasn't my main reason for choosing my L3430, but it sure would be nice if it could do it.

Loaded front tires on that L won't cause any steering issues.

It's only the larger tires that it effects.

Loaded front tires will not help you a lot for front ballast, the loader will do all the ballasting needed for the three point to reach max lift capacity.

Fiddlin Farmer · Apr 25, 2019

Okay, I keep going back and forth on the R1/R4 debate. I talked with a relative whose opinions I value greatly. He said I would probably do better with R4 tires. The added width will help them float better on the soft (but more times than not, dry) land. He also thought the sidewalls of the R4 tires were generally tougher in cases where I might get up against a stump.

If I decide to use R4, what do I need to do to be sure the turf rims will be correct for the R4 tires, and what are the specs I need to look at to order the right size parameters for my L3430 to maintain proper rear/front ratio?

Current rear turfs: Bridgestone 355/80d20
Current front dry-rotted R4s (on turf rims): Titan 27x8 50-15nhs

If it helps anything, the tag on the rear rim reads 355/80-D20 [L7] [L] LR6801. I could not find a similar marking on the front rims.

12251hd · Apr 26, 2019

Fiddlin Farmer said:
12251hd - I will certainly have plenty of sapling stubble to worry about - and I do worry about it. Is your main work area mostly flat, or hills and ditches? My 80 acres has quite a variety of flat, hill and ditch (well, cliff too, but I won't be working that ).

I knew before I bought the tractor that the R1's would require different rims.

My farm is hilly--some quite steep. I don't have any problem going up and down the steeper slopes with the bush hog. Locust thorns are a concern for me as well. When I ran cattle, I got around OK carrying round bales in the sloppiest of conditions. Just put a new set of R4's on the back.

kenty · Apr 30, 2019

Well I guess my first post went to file thirteen....

kenty · Apr 30, 2019

kenty said:
Well I guess my first post went to file thirteen....

Second post too... says I am not logged on, but obviously I am... Now I will log off!

hseII · May 1, 2019

Fiddlin Farmer said:
Okay, I keep going back and forth on the R1/R4 debate. I talked with a relative whose opinions I value greatly. He said I would probably do better with R4 tires. The added width will help them float better on the soft (but more times than not, dry) land. He also thought the sidewalls of the R4 tires were generally tougher in cases where I might get up against a stump.

If I decide to use R4, what do I need to do to be sure the turf rims will be correct for the R4 tires, and what are the specs I need to look at to order the right size parameters for my L3430 to maintain proper rear/front ratio?

Current rear turfs: Bridgestone 355/80d20

Current front dry-rotted R4s (on turf rims): Titan 27x8 50-15nhs

If it helps anything, the tag on the rear rim reads 355/80-D20 [L7] [L] LR6801. I could not find a similar marking on the front rims.

You listed all the reasons I went with R4s.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

R1 and R4 vs clay and thorns

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