Gas in the Deisel

BruceSchwandt · Oct 27, 2014

Normally I'd be embarrassed but my Kubota means too much for such trifles.

Today I accidentally put 5 gal of gas into my new Kubota L3200. Filled the can 3 or 4 weeks ago and must have been distracted. Mea Culpa!!

Wasn't sure and after much internal struggle I decided I couldn't have been that stupid. But I was! After about 10 minutes of running the engine lost all torque, needed to be pushed to 2000 to gain any momentum, none of the implements worked well, sounded weird (like it had the flu or something.

So I shut it down, need to drain the tank. Found the inline fuel filter but that's got several attachments. The manual says nothing about draining the tank.

I can't be the first person to have done this. My dad ran tractors in South Dakota for 30 years. He said diesels run on damn near anything except molasses.

Does anyone out there run an L3200 (2014) and know how to easily drain the fuel tank.

Calling the dealer in the morning.....

D2Cat · Oct 27, 2014

Bruce, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear you get on here to get this problem figured out.

I don't have a tractor of your model, but I can give you and overview of what you need to do.

Remove the fuel line coming into you injector pump. You don't want any more gasoline going into you IP. If you have an electric lift pump for your fuel simply put a piece of hose over the fitting on the line you just removed and insert the other end in a 5 gal. container. Activate your pump and pump it all out. Then replace your fuel filter. Add DIESEL and connect the fitting to the injection pump.

coachgeo · Oct 27, 2014

5 gal petrol in how large of a fuel tank? It's not a huge disaster, been there done that. Shops get stupid and charge huge money to solve this. IMHO they go way to far with it.

Drain petrol from tank (sorry I don't know how best on that model). Disconnect fuel lines, injector lines etc. from as close to the tank as you can and still have the fuel pump work. Disconnect all the way up to the injector lines at the injector. spin engine with starter to pump all petrol out of the lines. Add a cup or so of pure veg. oil to next jug of 5gal diesel. Mix that up real well then put in tractor. Follow normal procedure to prime with this blend the whole fuel system you emptied of petrol. Better yet use 5 gal of Biodiesel instead of the veg. /diesel blend.

Engine should fire now once it is all primed/bleed. Make sure to use that tank of fuel up soon. (AKA veg oil/bio-d gells real easy in winter). Reason for veg. or bio-d is it will lubricate the fuel system better than normal thus balancing out the loss of lubrication of pump and IP from petrol and of the cylinder walls etc from un-burnt petrol. Diesel is a light oil used as fuel.... veg. and bio-d are also light oils and can be used as a fuel as well. (in the right settings)

Check your oil.... if it is thin from petrol then change it now. If not much different then change it after you run the tractor again on that blend of diesel + Veg or biodiesel.

Next fill of diesel after that put in some diesel anti gel. just in case. If you have a block heater make sure to use it till you've run all the blend or bio-d out of the system for sure.

all I can think of for now.

tjd7869 · Oct 27, 2014

take a rather long (preferably clear) section of hose stick it into the tank as far as you can and then place your thumb over the end, pull hose out (but not all the way) and place the end into a suitably sized container. after the hose no longer siphons. disconnect all your fuel lines from your injectors and attach hoses to them and place the other end into the same container as before. put a half gallon or so of diesel fuel (i prefer dyed off-road, especially for this reason) into your tank and if your kubota has compression release use it and crank the motor over until you have diesel fuel coming out of all the lines.

Tx Jim · Oct 28, 2014

Truck drivers have been known to add 10% gasoline to diesel in the Winter to help keep diesel from gelling. I'd drain what fuel out of tank I could then fill with new diesel and crank engine. Several yrs back my daughter filled her Dodge diesel PU with gasoline. I drained tank and put some diesel in the tank. I then cranked engine and she drove it several more yrs before she traded it for another PU.

GWD · Oct 28, 2014

Agree with Tx Jim on this one.

Obviously, the tractor will run on pure gasoline for a while and damage can occur. However, draining whatever you can out of the tank by whatever method (some good ones already listed), refilling the tank with lubricant added (there are several commercial ones and others listed above), and cranking the engine to start at idle should be enough. Let it run 10 minutes at low RPM to clear the lines.

Your dealer's eyes will light up with $ signs when you call. The extensive draining of everything is time-consuming and profit-making.

I would never put gas in a diesel engine. OK, maybe once.

And to make it worse, the tractor had run out of fuel so it had pure gas.

Took it to the dealer for the same reason as you plan to do...but I had no idea gas was used. The dealer simply drained the tank and filled it with diesel. $100 later the tractor was back to work.

BAP · Oct 28, 2014

Tx Jim said:
Truck drivers have been known to add 10% gasoline to diesel in the Winter to help keep diesel from gelling. I'd drain what fuel out of tank I could then fill with new diesel and crank engine. Several yrs back my daughter filled her Dodge diesel PU with gasoline. I drained tank and put some diesel in the tank. I then cranked engine and she drove it several more yrs before she traded it for another PU.

Usually you add kerosene to diesel for winter running not gas. Gas in diesel can cause internal damage if they are worked hard enough. A few years ago, we had a fuel supplier that screwed up and mixed gas into our on-road tank and before we figured it out, we lost pistons in 2 truck motors.

coachgeo · Oct 28, 2014

BAP said:
Usually you add kerosene to diesel for winter running not gas. Gas in diesel can cause internal damage if they are worked hard enough. A few years ago, we had a fuel supplier that screwed up and mixed gas into our on-road tank and before we figured it out, we lost pistons in 2 truck motors.

loosing two pistons due to gas? Sounds a bit off. Not doubting you just having a real hard time seeing how that is possible. Was this a DI or IDI engine? Good ol' mechanical IP or computerized high pressure stuff?

and yes...... on the trucks of yesteryear many many truckers and even diesel car users put up to 10% gas/petrol in the diesel for winter use. Similar blend used by Veg. oil users. Some interesting thoughts behind this (dual flame fronts improving over all combustion is one)

cerlawson · Oct 28, 2014

No one has said where do you dump the mix of diesel and gas? Don't let your Department of Natural Resources hear about it or you may be in trouble. The way gasoline contaminated soil is cleaned is that they run it through a large rotating drum such as that heating an asphalt paving mixture. So, check with your local paver and see if the plant they have will take it off your hands. Act quick, since they shut down for winter.

D2Cat · Oct 28, 2014

"Usually you add kerosene to diesel for winter running not gas. Gas in diesel can cause internal damage if they are worked hard enough. A few years ago, we had a fuel supplier that screwed up and mixed gas into our on-road tank and before we figured it out, we lost pistons in 2 truck motors."

Volkswagen had it in their owner's manual to add up to 10% gasoline to diesel powered engines during winter months to prevent gelling! This may have been before your time, it was mid 1980's.

ShaunRH · Oct 28, 2014

It's not the same as putting diesel into a gas car, that's a smoky mess.

You lose lubricity with gas in diesel but it does run, I've seen it work, but your exhaust temps will be far higher. It cooks the engine, or so I've been told, and you'll see it as either a power gain or loss (depending on motor). Either way, damage is harsh.

I wouldn't dump the mix, I'd just add a quart of it to each fill up for top off and burn it off slowly. The engine should handle the low amount of mix just fine.

Tx Jim · Oct 29, 2014

D2Cat said:
Volkswagen had it in their owner's manual to add up to 10% gasoline to diesel powered engines during winter months to prevent gelling! This may have been before your time, it was mid 1980's.

Amen buddy on Volkswagen stating to use 10% gasoline in the diesel in Winter to prevent fuel gelling.

nickelplated5s · Oct 29, 2014

Take the contaminated fuel to a transfer station. Around here they take up to 5 gallons for free. Change your filters after if you go the Bio-D route. Get a yellow can

dmanlyr · Oct 29, 2014

It was also recommended on the Oldsmobile diesels to add 10% gasoline to the diesel in cold weather. Right in the owners manual.

But that was in the early 80's before they started adding a fair amount of alcohol to the fuel, back then alcohol laced gasoline was a rarity, I would imagine the alcohol in todays fuel will play havoc with the seal and other rubber parts in the diesel fuel system.

This played out a number of years ago, when on the gasoline engines the added fuel required a different make up of the rubber fuel lines and changes to the carburetors to deal with the alcohol.

David

nickelplated5s · Oct 30, 2014

Bosch HPFP's are used from Audi to VW. Diesel is the lubricant in these and it's a 14K repair for a SuperDuty. Service techs have pictures of what not to warranty. Putting DEF in fuel is the more common mistake and it will ruin the injection system. The point is current motors are much different than 80's models.

dirtroad · Oct 30, 2014

This is all you need.
http://m.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-61364.html

Pump it out, refill with diesel and your done.

Chevelle · Oct 30, 2014

Had this happen to my tractor before I bought it from my neighbor.A kid he hired to do the sideroad snowblowing for him put a can of gas in it and it lost all power.We pulled it into my shop,found the problem,drained the gas/diesel mix out,pulled the injectors to get tested for damage,changed fuel filter,filled with fresh diesel,got it running then changed the oil.Been running great ever since and I had no worries about buying it from him.

dmanlyr · Oct 31, 2014

nickelplated5s said:
Bosch HPFP's are used from Audi to VW. Diesel is the lubricant in these and it's a 14K repair for a SuperDuty. Service techs have pictures of what not to warranty. Putting DEF in fuel is the more common mistake and it will ruin the injection system. The point is current motors are much different than 80's models.

Very true. Not only have the diesels changed, but both gasoline and diesel fuel has changed significantly since the 1980's. Although it is hard now for some who did not live thru the earlier diesel eras to understand exactly what was recommended way back them. I mean really, a 1938 Detroit diesel fundamentally is not that much different from any other Detroit (Jimmy) two stroke up until they introduced the DDEC, what 50 years later?

On my old 6V53, it was common and when I come up with to mix in used lube oil with the fuel oil, think of what havoc that would play with a newer diesel.

Of course a newer diesel runs circles around that old one. A new diesel makes way more power, and on less fuel. Service intervals are increased and the engines just run a whole lot smoother, quieter, so all that fancy electronic stuff does improve the lot, but at some expense and more pickiness on the fuel used.

On my Kubota I am picky on what goes in the tank, I will not even fuel it in the rain unless I pull it in the shop.

David

Stan Wetmore · Nov 1, 2014

Yes. My VW manual said that we could add 10% gas to the diesel as well. I never did though. I added fuel conditioner instead and it did seem to work for reducing the where on the injector pump as well as fixing the gelling problem.

coachgeo · Nov 1, 2014

dmanlyr said:
Very true. Not only have the diesels changed, but both gasoline and diesel fuel has changed significantly since the 1980's. Although it is hard now for some who did not live thru the earlier diesel eras to understand exactly what was recommended way back them. I mean really, a 1938 Detroit diesel fundamentally is not that much different from any other Detroit (Jimmy) two stroke up until they introduced the DDEC, what 50 years later?

On my old 6V53, it was common and when I come up with to mix in used lube oil with the fuel oil, think of what havoc that would play with a newer diesel.

Of course a newer diesel runs circles around that old one. A new diesel makes way more power, and on less fuel. Service intervals are increased and the engines just run a whole lot smoother, quieter, so all that fancy electronic stuff does improve the lot, but at some expense and more pickiness on the fuel used.

On my Kubota I am picky on what goes in the tank, I will not even fuel it in the rain unless I pull it in the shop.

David

It matters the era of your diesel tractor though. Many tractors still use very old technology. The computerized, high pressure pumps and ka-gillion PSI injectors are not on most folks tractors are they? A blend in a straight DI diesel with a bosch style pump (not rotary another words) and your still pretty fine. An older IDI diesel tractor.... pbbbblllllhhh you can run the damn thing on motor oil and petrol blend. Just got to de-coke it more often..... well more like REAL OFTEN. "Vehicles" running diesel compared to Tractors/gen-sets etc.; that are more constant RPM, don't coke the rings as often some studies suggest and one hypothesis why is the random loading. Example folk who babied their old diesel cars; example Mercedes, often ended up with engines coked quicker than folk who put stress/loads on the same model diesel MB's. IMHO If you really want on old diesel tractor to last you need to be decoking them with either water mist/inject or some sort of Italian Tune up rather often if your not using your tractor in an environment that really loads the engine on and off while in use. Little bio diesel occasionally and some additional inline fuel filters would be real wise too.

Gas in the Deisel

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