L47 Engine Error P0093

crmorse

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'20 RTV-XG850, '16 L47 TLB, '06 JCB 506CHL, '99 JD 455G, 1953 Ford 8N
Nov 28, 2016
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Anniston, AL
Hi guys,

I have a question about this error, "Engine-ERROR P0093." Sorry for the long story below but I have doubts about what the dealer told me and then I had another failure right afterwards that I think is unrelated but I want to be sure.

I have a 2016 L47 and I was using it with a tree puller to pluck small trees (<1.5") at low speeds in M-L on a variable steepish grade (5-15º) and noticed that it seemed to be losing power but I didn't think too much about it because the slope I was working on was varying grade and I figured I was just on steeper part than I realized. A few minutes later it beeped and the display panel showed "Engine-ERROR P0093." I immediately moved to level terrain (50' away) and shut it down.

Neither my owner's manual or WSM shows this error anywhere and searching here, TBN, and Google generally revealed nothing. I called my dealer the next morning and he looked it up and told me it was a starter relay failure and that it likely wouldn't start.

Since I was grubbing out saplings from a new clearing and it was plausible that something had poked up inside and ripped some wires (it's happened before). I checked it out the next day and couldn't find any damaged wires anywhere, especially around the starter area. I tried the key and it fired right up. So I began gently using it again. After a little bit it seemed to start losing power again so I shut down again and remembered that I hadn't checked the air filter in a while. While checking it (it was dusty but not plugged) I noticed that the oil cooler radiator was completely plugged up with dust (engine temp was normal). So I let everything cool down and then mozied it back to the shop and used the air hose to give everything a good cleaning out.

I was able to use it for several hours the rest of the day with no more issues until the last hour of the day when hose from the loader valve's power beyond to the 3rd function valve blew in a spectacular geyser of $30/gal SUDT2! Now, my first thought was that I'd caught the hose on an unseen sapling-turned-spear but the area was completely clear and those was blown on the top side right at the crimp and following the seam. BTW-This is the FOURTH hose that's blown on me in only 220 hours and none of them have been due to external damage --but I think this is another story...

So here's my questions:
1) Can anybody confirm that P0093 is indeed a starter relay? I suspect it's actually HST oil temperature based on the reduced power coupled with plugged oil cooler and it went away when I cleaned the radiator

2) Does anybody think the latest hose to blow could be related to the P0093 above? I think they're either just coincidences or I really did hit something that snagged it and I just didn't notice it.

3) Has anybody else had problems with recent vintage Kubotas blowing hoses? I feel like the quality of factory hose is substandard. I had 1 FEL hose blow entirely around 20hrs and the other side was about to go when I had them fix the first one and at 100hrs two BH hoses blew.

Or maybe I have other pressures issues because I've also had both FEL cylinders that were leaking at the internal seals almost from the start, one grapple jaw cylinder seal shortly after than (3rd party grapple, no warranty on that one), and then not much later the BH thumb cylinder too. The dealer has done a pressure test twice because when I first got it was really weak and they said the pressures were fine, maybe on the high side of spec, but still in spec. I finally cured the weakness myself when I found several fittings were not tight from the factory and it was leaking and also admitting air.

I guess this part has turned into a bit of a rant. I've been very honest with how I'm using the tractor and what I'm doing with it and asked if I was abusing it or my expectations were off and every time he's assured me I wasn't doing anything wrong and it was just bad luck and they'd fix it. However, stuff keeps happening and my frustration is boiling over. I bought new so I could just make payments instead of repairs but instead I'm doing both. (I'm excluding the things I've broken myself due to bad operation because that's not their fault like the time I did snag a stick and it ripped out the 3rd function wires).

Anyway, thanks for listening and please let me know if have any answers to any of the above.
 

crmorse

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Equipment
'20 RTV-XG850, '16 L47 TLB, '06 JCB 506CHL, '99 JD 455G, 1953 Ford 8N
Nov 28, 2016
102
0
16
Anniston, AL
My M59 WSM says ERROR-93 : Starter relay in trouble
I guess I might have snagged a wire or something just long enough to set the code or something but didn't actually damage anything.
a) I have the L47/M59 WSM but I couldn't find that in there anywhere. What section did you find it in?

b) Any idea if I can clear this myself to see if it resets or is that dealer-only?

As far as hoses go they do fail time to time
I guess, but doesn't 4 in 220 hrs/14 months seem like a bit more often than time-to-time?
 

D2Cat

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The dealer said the pressure was on the high side but with in specs. When you tightened the fittings and sealed the system, is it possible the pressure is now higher than spec?

Too many hoses going bad from different sources to be specifically a hose problem.
 

crmorse

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'20 RTV-XG850, '16 L47 TLB, '06 JCB 506CHL, '99 JD 455G, 1953 Ford 8N
Nov 28, 2016
102
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Anniston, AL
The dealer said the pressure was on the high side but with in specs. When you tightened the fittings and sealed the system, is it possible the pressure is now higher than spec?

Too many hoses going bad from different sources to be specifically a hose problem.
That's a really good point. The other thing that's odd is something the thing is scary strong and sometimes I fee like a small child could shame it. To me, it's almost like something is clogging the relief value and sometimes preventing it from opening/shutting when it should. But when I operate it it sounds normal. I.e. if I hang the BH on a root I can hear the engine load change and return as soon as I let go of the sticks.

My FEL doesn't have QDs but it looks to me like the 3rd function shares the same relief valve. Think I could plumb a gauge in-line there to monitor it for a while? And then do the same on the BH connections?

The problem seems to come and go and the dealer doesn't seem to have much interest in helping me find it even though I have a lengthy service history with them now and they accumulated 12 weeks (documented) of it sitting in their shop during the first year.

I just want to fix the cause, even if the cause is me.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Your dealer needs to look at his information a little better! (yea that's putting it nicely) :rolleyes:

Error P0093 has nothing to do with the starter relay, or anything electrical.



This could be all related, because if it's heating the hydraulic fluid too high (which will cause failures) and raises pressures, it will also heat the fuel (shares same cooler space) and could make it look like a pressure issue. ;)
 

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crmorse

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'20 RTV-XG850, '16 L47 TLB, '06 JCB 506CHL, '99 JD 455G, 1953 Ford 8N
Nov 28, 2016
102
0
16
Anniston, AL
This could be all related, because if it's heating the hydraulic fluid too high (which will cause failures) and raises pressures, it will also heat the fuel (shares same cooler space) and could make it look like a pressure issue. ;)
Thank you Wolfman!

My googling around showed that P0093 is fuel leaks in car OBD system so I took a guess they at they might have reused the same codes and looked over the fuel system. There's no external signs of any leaks.

So since I found and fixed the likely cause of high fluid temp do you think it's safe to operate to see if the code reoccurs?
 

Dave_eng

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I have the codes for L series if you want them for the next problem :)

Send me a pm with your email and I will send you a link to the file.

Dave
 

mikester

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I guess I might have snagged a wire or something just long enough to set the code or something but didn't actually damage anything.
a) I have the L47/M59 WSM but I couldn't find that in there anywhere. What section did you find it in?

b) Any idea if I can clear this myself to see if it resets or is that dealer-only?


I guess, but doesn't 4 in 220 hrs/14 months seem like a bit more often than time-to-time?
With regards to your hose going at the same time it seems to me they are un-related to an electrical issue. What are you doing when you blow the hoses? Last time I blew a hose was on my case 580D the loader boom hose blew while driving on bumpy ground with a fully loaded bucket. Where are the hoses popping, in the middle somewhere? At a sharp radius? Are they rubbing? Failure at or near the crimps? the fittings? Maybe your pressure is set too high, maybe you are overloading something, maybe you got a bad lot number from the hose manufacturer. What year is your machine? Do you store it inside or outside?

For the error code I got mine from Page 9-M21

on 3-S7 it shows
 

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North Idaho Wolfman

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With regards to your hose going at the same time it seems to me they are un-related to an electrical issue. What are you doing when you blow the hoses? Last time I blew a hose was on my case 580D the loader boom hose blew while driving on bumpy ground with a fully loaded bucket. Where are the hoses popping, in the middle somewhere? At a sharp radius? Are they rubbing? Failure at or near the crimps? the fittings? Maybe your pressure is set too high, maybe you are overloading something, maybe you got a bad lot number from the hose manufacturer. What year is your machine? Do you store it inside or outside?

For the error code I got mine from Page 9-M21

on 3-S7 it shows
Mikester,
If you notice you have noted ERROR-93 not ERROR P0093 2 way different codes.

The M59 is a standard mechanical fuel injection feed engine, with little to no engine computer control and with a simple dash driven computer.

The M47 is a common rail full computer controlled engine with DTC codes (similar to OBD codes).
 

crmorse

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'20 RTV-XG850, '16 L47 TLB, '06 JCB 506CHL, '99 JD 455G, 1953 Ford 8N
Nov 28, 2016
102
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Anniston, AL
The latest hose in question. I know what I think is the failure mode but curious to hear what the brain trust says.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Yea that's looks like a pressure issue.
I would put a tee with a gauge on the input line and watch it while your working it. ;)
 

lugbolt

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PO093...fuel system pressure abnormality.

Replace the fuel filter first, and for crying out loud, use a Kubota filter (not some pile of steaming feces aftermarket filter)......there is a BIG difference when it comes to common rail engines with the micron size filtration. Common rail stuff will not tolerate ANY water or dirt in the system as it runs at up to ~26,000 PSI, which requires very close tolerances in the high pressure pump. And....you don't want to know what that pump costs. Or injectors. Keep filters squeaky clean and keep your fuel filtered and as clean as humanly possible.

Could also be an abnormality with the rail pressure sensor but the sensor is not available separate from the fuel rail, last I checked about $1500 + a bunch of labor should you have to pay a dealer. Change the fuel filter FIRST. The spin-on filter. Also clean the separator and it's bowl.

PO093 can also be set if there's a large fuel system leak, which can result from a lot of things, but usually if that's the case, "most" of the time it's visible....and because the fuel system runs at such high pressure, better have skin and face protection when inspecting for a leak in the high pressure side of the system. I seen a leaky injector line on an older M108X one time and if I'd have been near it with no eye protection, would've lost an eye-quick. And I only got one good one so losing that good one would mean I'm totally disabled. While on that subject, it's always adviseable to wear eye protection when working anywhere near these things anyway-as there always seems to be some dirt falling off of something somewhere, and it always seems to fall right into an eye hole. BTDT.

Generally speaking, the hydraulic leak ain't gonna cause a PO093 code. It'll just leak hydraulic fluid. I don't recall any sensors on the hydraulic system other than for the HST stuff; and even then I am not sure it'll cause any codes to pop up in the panel or ECU. I am mostly certain that the P codes are directly related to the engine and it's fuel system.
 

crmorse

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Equipment
'20 RTV-XG850, '16 L47 TLB, '06 JCB 506CHL, '99 JD 455G, 1953 Ford 8N
Nov 28, 2016
102
0
16
Anniston, AL
Been busy working on building the house but the P0093 threw again and this time it was accompanied by a P3002 and the engine stopped.

I've checked all over and there's no fuel leaking outside the engine. From carefully rereading the DTC sent to me by you find folks it seems like what that code really means is that the ECU is detecting that it's not burning as much fuel as it should be.

The last time it threw the code it was right after startup so it's not an oil/hydro fluid temp issue. The only thing I found for certain is that it runs fine at lower throttle but if you get up near PTO speed you can feel the HST speed and engine power suddenly drop. (The DTC says power is cut by 50% during code conditions).

It's due for filters so I'm thinking to try a new fuel filter --maybe flow is restricted and it's not getting as much fuel as it actually should be? Other than that, I'm thinking it's time to go off to the dealer for sensor diagnostics.

Unless you guys have some more ideas.
 

crmorse

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Equipment
'20 RTV-XG850, '16 L47 TLB, '06 JCB 506CHL, '99 JD 455G, 1953 Ford 8N
Nov 28, 2016
102
0
16
Anniston, AL
Update on this thread.

It took a while but I was finally able to get by the dealer and pick up a full complement of filters (well, not quite "full" more on that later). Changed the fuel filter out and purged air as per spec. Took a lot longer to get it to start afterwards but it finally did. I've used it a about an hour since then, including the conditions that caused the code before and it seems to be cleared up. So it appears ya'll were right and it was a plugged up filter. That's great news!

About that "full" compliment of filters. As others have mentioned on here, the L47 requires two hydraulic filters and the dealer only gave me one. Worse, the 2nd filter is mounted higher than the adjacent one. Being my first time doing a filter change I thought that was the HST filter and tried to put that filter on in it's place. It threads on fine but does absolutely nothing to stop the torrent of oil cascading down. By the time I figured out what was going on the reservoir was empty.

I'm not totally crushed about losing the fluid because I was considering changing it all out anyway. However, I was only prepared to catch about 2 gals of it. The rest ran all down my shop and driveway. Only had 1 bag of kitty litter on-hand. Had to run to town to get two more to dry things up.

Went back by the dealer to get the missing filter and more fluid. I reminded the sales clerk about the 2nd filter and why it was important to get that right. He was unfazed and nearly forgot to even charge me for the 2nd bucket of SUDT2. Honestly, I feel like he should have comped me at least some but I had to tell him about it first. Once I reminded him of the 2nd bucket he charged me full price.

Interestingly enough. Refilling ended up only requiring about 6 gals instead of the full 12.2g listed in the specs. I'm not sure if that amount just didn't leak out or there's that much held in the cylinders. Probably the later. Either way, I now have enough filters and fluid to do it right the next time.

Thanks for the help everyone!
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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If you didn't pull all the drain plugs then you only changed about 1/2 the fluid out of it.

You might want to cut the next change time in half, and do a full change then. ;)
 

crmorse

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'20 RTV-XG850, '16 L47 TLB, '06 JCB 506CHL, '99 JD 455G, 1953 Ford 8N
Nov 28, 2016
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Anniston, AL
Thanks for the tip, Wolfman!

This is my 200 hour service, oil wasn't technically due. I'll just resume the normal schedule at 400. Good call out.